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A team of researchers examining the herbal remedy St. John's Wort have found it to be just as effective in treating patients with moderate to severe depression as the common anti-depressant prescription drug Paxil.
The researchers compared the effectiveness of St John's Wort to paroxetine, brand name Paxil, in a study that included 301 participants.
Among those who took St. John's Wort, 50 percent reported their condition improved, compared with 35 percent taking Paxil.
The researchers also found participants taking Paxil suffered 269 adverse effects, compared with 172 among those taking St. John's Wort.
The researchers said they support St. John's Wort as an alternative to treat depression.
The study appears in the online version of the British Medical Journal.
not even close, an old wives tale..placebo effect. more than likely these people didnt need to be on an SSRI and could have controlled their "depression" through activity, and amusement.
Acute treatment of moderate to severe depression with hypericum extract WS 5570 (St John's wort): randomised controlled double blind non-inferiority trial versus paroxetine
A Szegedi 1, R Kohnen 2, A Dienel 3, M Kieser 3
1 Charité-Universitätsmedizin Berlin, Campus Benjamin Franklin, Department of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, Eschenallee 3, 14050 Berlin, Germany
2 Institute for Medical Research Management and Biometrics GmbH, Scheurlstraße 21, 90478 Nürnberg, Germany
3 Dr Willmar Schwabe Pharmaceuticals, PO Box 410925, 76209 Karlsruhe, Germany
Objective To investigate the efficacy of hypericum extract WS 5570 (St John's wort) compared with paroxetine in patients with moderate to severe major depression.
Setting 21 psychiatric primary care practices in Germany.
Participants 251 adult outpatients with acute major depression with total score 22 on the 17 item Hamilton depression scale.
Interventions 900 mg/day hypericum extract WS 5570 three times a day or 20 mg paroxetine once a day for six weeks. In initial non-responders doses were increased to 1800 mg/day hypericum or 40 mg/day paroxetine after two weeks.
Main outcome measures Change in score on Hamilton depression scale from baseline to day 42 (primary outcome). Secondary measures were change in scores on Montgomery-Åsberg depression rating scale, clinical global impressions, and Beck depression inventory.
Results The Hamilton depression total score decreased by mean 14.4 (SD 8.8) points, corresponding to 56.6% (SD 34.3%) of the baseline value, in the hypericum group and by 11.4 (SD 8.6) points (44.8% (SD 33.5%) of baseline value) in the paroxetine group (intention to treat analysis; similar results were observed in the per protocol analysis). The intention to treat analysis (lower one sided 97.5% confidence limit 1.5 points for the difference hypericum minus paroxetine) and the per protocol analysis (lower confidence limit 0.7 points) showed non-inferiority of hypericum and statistical superiority over paroxetine. The lower limits in both cases exceeded the pre-specified non-inferiority margin of -2.5 points and the superiority margin of 0. The incidence of adverse events was 0.035 and 0.060 events per day of exposure for hypericum and paroxetine, respectively.
Conclusions In the treatment of moderate to severe major depression, hypericum extract WS 5570 is at least as effective as paroxetine and is better tolerated.
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 11 2005, 10:12 AM Here is the study published in the BMJ , Grimm.
Where did you get your Doctorate?
;-))
Quote:
Acute treatment of moderate to severe depression with hypericum extract WS 5570 (St John's wort): randomised controlled double blind non-inferiority trial versus paroxetine
A Szegedi 1, R Kohnen 2, A Dienel 3, M Kieser 3
1 Charité-Universitätsmedizin Berlin, Campus Benjamin Franklin, Department of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, Eschenallee 3, 14050 Berlin, Germany
2 Institute for Medical Research Management and Biometrics GmbH, Scheurlstraße 21, 90478 Nürnberg, Germany
3 Dr Willmar Schwabe Pharmaceuticals, PO Box 410925, 76209 Karlsruhe, Germany
Objective To investigate the efficacy of hypericum extract WS 5570 (St John's wort) compared with paroxetine in patients with moderate to severe major depression.
Setting 21 psychiatric primary care practices in Germany.
Participants 251 adult outpatients with acute major depression with total score 22 on the 17 item Hamilton depression scale.
Interventions 900 mg/day hypericum extract WS 5570 three times a day or 20 mg paroxetine once a day for six weeks. In initial non-responders doses were increased to 1800 mg/day hypericum or 40 mg/day paroxetine after two weeks.
Main outcome measures Change in score on Hamilton depression scale from baseline to day 42 (primary outcome). Secondary measures were change in scores on Montgomery-Åsberg depression rating scale, clinical global impressions, and Beck depression inventory.
Results The Hamilton depression total score decreased by mean 14.4 (SD 8.8) points, corresponding to 56.6% (SD 34.3%) of the baseline value, in the hypericum group and by 11.4 (SD 8.6) points (44.8% (SD 33.5%) of baseline value) in the paroxetine group (intention to treat analysis; similar results were observed in the per protocol analysis). The intention to treat analysis (lower one sided 97.5% confidence limit 1.5 points for the difference hypericum minus paroxetine) and the per protocol analysis (lower confidence limit 0.7 points) showed non-inferiority of hypericum and statistical superiority over paroxetine. The lower limits in both cases exceeded the pre-specified non-inferiority margin of -2.5 points and the superiority margin of 0. The incidence of adverse events was 0.035 and 0.060 events per day of exposure for hypericum and paroxetine, respectively.
Conclusions In the treatment of moderate to severe major depression, hypericum extract WS 5570 is at least as effective as paroxetine and is better tolerated.
its one of many studies nick..
all show that it may or may not help mild clinical depression... not arguing that, the argument in EVERY ONE of these studies was whether the results were because of a placebo effect.. im depressed, i take a pill to make it better, i feel better, i go take a walk or talk to a friend.... or chemical.. as there is not much behind St Johns Wort releasing any more neurotransmitters than taking a walk or talking to a friend
as for the doctorate... no phd but..school of hard knocks, that and School of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering
Originally posted by Peaches@Feb 11 2005, 10:14 AM Sex and food get me over any depression I might be feeling
Sex would be under th exercise column.. thats a literal explosion of every neurotransmitter you have to control muscle movement, increase heart rate, blood pressure, blood moving fast through your organs, creating a rapid dispersement of these chemicals over neural pathways, nerve endings firing at will... and that is all before orgasm
and food... depending on the type releases all sorts fo lovely chemicals into your body from your brain and pancreas and gastro-intestinal system..Pancreozymin, Cholecystoknin, give you that happy saieted "full" feeling...not to mention the digestive triggers flood your synapses with seratonin, adrenalin, etc, as your body prepares for digestion
There have been studies on St. John's Wort....and they vary in what they say about the efficacy of this herb.
Whether it is a placebo effect or there are some real properties depends on whose clinical trial you want to believe.
There have been some non scientific studies, based simply on what people report as to whether St. John's Wort actually lifts the spirits; but, in my experience, all of these herbs and drugs.....are merely bandaids....
Without going into lengthy explanations, it's really a matter of economy. It's much less expensive to prescribe a lifetime of prozac, paxil, zoloft and the newer anti depressants than it is to co pay talk therapy, which is what these people truly need.
All these drugs accomplish is a film over the problem...physically, they allow the psyche to fool itself into thinking its fine when it isn't....
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Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 11 2005, 10:20 AM This though one says its effective in the treatment of:
" moderate to severe major depression"
And the conclusion is "at least as effective".
i can produced tens to hundreds of studies on St Johns Wort going back decades, even centuries... The greeks used it as an analgesic, pre-anesthesia.. you want to go into an operating room and get cut with the assurance of st johns wort being in your system?
for mild depression, or insomnia (which often go hand in hand).. you can take st johns wort, melatonin, valerian tea or root, etc.. it might make you sleepy... so might tylenol PM..
and besides, what your body releases naturally is way stronger.
and beware of HERBAL REMEDIES... not in this case, but in others, they are not regulated, and are sometimes way stronger than what you can get from a doc... see ginseng, ephedra, etc vs prescription varients for the the same purpose. also lack of regulation in herbal markets are dangerous.. need to consult your phsyician before taking hrebal remedies, as side effects could be a decrease in pancreatic enzymes, kidney problems, and acute rise in your Liver Enzymes.
Originally posted by Evil Chris@Feb 11 2005, 10:23 AM You would be amazed at the sheer number of webmasters who suffer from varying degrees of a] depression, B] anxiety disorder, and c] ADD.
i believe there is a direct correlation between that and insomnia and a lack of a proper circadian rhythm at all... staying up all night, sleeping during the day... can definitely make one depressed.. not to mention the added stressors of running your own business, not getting out as much, lack of one on one physical and verbal contact with real live friends... we get bogged down 24/7 between making our businesses work and not sleeping.. next thing you know you could end up a mess
Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 10:24 AM There have been studies on St. John's Wort....and they vary in what they say about the efficacy of this herb.
Whether it is a placebo effect or there are some real properties depends on whose clinical trial you want to believe.
There have been some non scientific studies, based simply on what people report as to whether St. John's Wort actually lifts the spirits; but, in my experience, all of these herbs and drugs.....are merely bandaids....
Without going into lengthy explanations, it's really a matter of economy. It's much less expensive to prescribe a lifetime of prozac, paxil, zoloft and the newer anti depressants than it is to co pay talk therapy, which is what these people truly need.
All these drugs accomplish is a film over the problem...physically, they allow the psyche to fool itself into thinking its fine when it isn't....
I couldn't agree more.. if you are on any sort of MAOI or SSRI, and you are not talking to a professional, you need to be... the root of the problems may be chemical, but the remedy could be a change in lifestyle, diet, excercise patterns, social patterns, etc.. none of this a depressed individual is going to realize on their own.. talking out the way you feel should go hand and hand with any prescription.
I very much agree with your statement, Grimm....our bodies were not meant to go against the natural order of things.....it's unfortunate, but fuck with the circadian rhythm and things happen which can be rather annoying....
Stress, positive or negative, is seen by the body as an attack...the immune system will respond....and everyone knows it's hard to fight a war on two fronts...so we are making our systems work double time....fighting the daily constant war on disease prevention...AND fighting the stressors we add...like not enough sleep, sleeping during the day and staying awake at night..not enough physical activity..worry.....etc...etc...etc..
There are herbal remedies that are downright dangerous....people just don't get it..they think herbals are benign; when, in reality, they can kill you just like the prescription meds can.
After all, digitalis comes from a plant...pretty but deadly if you take too much....
Aspirin..well, willow bark....and had anyone known of its powers, it would have been a prescription...
Those are just two examples.....
The damned drug companies and herbal companies with their advertisements....and, I also blame the people for believing the 'magic bullet' theory of take this. Be cured. Bah.
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If You'd Just Do It My Way, Your Life Would Be Better
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I think I have ADD and I think I've always had it. It's never been diagnosed and I really don't need to take anything for it, but I do realize in hindsight that I probably could have benefited from therapy/medication or at least someone being aware of it when I was in school.
Originally posted by Peaches@Feb 11 2005, 10:43 AM I think I have ADD and I think I've always had it. It's never been diagnosed and I really don't need to take anything for it, but I do realize in hindsight that I probably could have benefited from therapy/medication or at least someone being aware of it when I was in school.
if it aint broke dont fix it
if it isnt causing a problem in your life, like a lack of function at something important to you, then technically, it isnt a disorder.
Drug companies want to sell drugs.. research and developement costs are in the billions.. so they are very convincing that every "disorder" needs treating.
even mild bipoars can go without treatment, as long as the highs and the lows dont effect their lives or make them a threat to themselves and others.
Raven.. substituting herbal rememdies for prescriptions is very dangerous.. Digitalis is a perfect example... used properly, in the correct synthesized form, it strenghtens the heart muscle and is a treatment for weak valve syndrome or forms of cardiomyopathy. it can stop an arythmia or tacicardia on a dime... also it can be used to stop seizures, and can be far more beneficial than tegretol, depakote or other anticonvulsives.
but if taken without supervision, in an herbal form, it can stop your heart dead in its tracks. can cause your brain to seize and die...
Lithium is a natural occuring element.. it is also a salt.. taking anything that contains natural lithium in it can lead to electrolytic shock and death.
just because it is Natural, does not make it safe for use...
and all herbal and prescription remedies can effect your liver.. so i wouldnt take anything without getting an Liver Function Test first.
Originally posted by grimm@Feb 11 2005, 02:53 PM if it aint broke dont fix it
if it isnt causing a problem in your life, like a lack of function at something important to you, then technically, it isnt a disorder.
I agree which is why I have no desire to do anything about it now. This way I have something to blame my "ditzy-ness" on
But I think I would have done a lot better in school had I been diagnosed then. No one could understand why I was in the top percentile in aptitude tests, but did horrible in school. :P
I've told this story before, but for those who haven't heard it:
I've had migraines since I was 13 and one of the prophylactics for it is anti-depression medication. I've tried several and most had absolutely zero effect on me, including not helping the migraines. Understand that when you spend 3-5 days a month curled up in a ball because of the pain, you're willing to try ANYTHING.
However, they tried me once on Prozac. I started at 10mg I think (maybe 5) for 5 days - nothing, so he had me double it. Within 48 hours I went into a deep chemical depression. It was the most bizarre thing I have ever experienced. I literally felt like a heavy black cloud was over me. I couldn't convince myself to get out of bed, off the toilet, out of my chair, etc. THANKFULLY I knew what was going on, stopped taking the stuff and was fine in another 48 hours. But it really gave me an insight to what people with chemical depression go through. The doctor said this happens to a very, very small percentage of people who take it for non-depression reasons. It freaked me out so bad that when I fill out medical forms and they ask me what I'm allergic to, I put down Prozac. I don't want someone giving it to me for ANY reason.
I'm with you, Grimm.....lithium has such a narrow range for toxicity....just a tiny bit too much can be lethal...
We don't have foxglove plants around our house, because dogs can eat it and die.
What people don't know can kill them and often does. They listen to the hype and call their docs...the docs prescribe..and the people believe this magic bullshit of advertising.
The one that has me roaring these days is the nexium commercials, and yes I realise I'm moving away from natural herbal products...this acid reflux thing....Christ, give me a break.
Change your damned diet.....stop eating the foods that give you heartburn.
Tums is another one. It has ingredients in it that make you need it more.....the more often you use them, the more you need to take it. It's called sales.
We as a people do not want the hard road. We continue to eat the foods which hurt us...take pills which only mask symptoms for the short term...we live our lives as if our bodies and minds can adapt...and the body and mind will do anything to avoid pain....it adapts as best it can....and, then we are surprised when the body says 'you win' and explodes.
All these disorders....did it occur to anyone that they are just another marketing campaign?
We all had ADD as children. Go look at the list of symptoms for ADD.....it's a syndrome..a set of behaviours...there isn't a child in the world that didn't qualify....
Acid reflux? Give me a break.
Depression? Who hasn't been depressed?
Peaches....I don't know anything about your headaches, but let me ask you this? Were you given an EEG before they diagnosed you with migraines?
__________________
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If You'd Just Do It My Way, Your Life Would Be Better
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Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 03:20 PM Peaches....I don't know anything about your headaches, but let me ask you this? Were you given an EEG before they diagnosed you with migraines?
Oh yeah, I've had EEG's, CAT scans, thyroid tests - you name it, I've had it. And I've tried every kind of medication for them and even relaxation and biofeedback therapy. Imitrex is the only thing that works and I'm starting to build up a tolerance for it. Even the other triptans don't work.
Warning for guys - TMI to follow: It's associated with my menstrual cycle. Every female on my mother's side of the family has had them. When I was pregnant, I didn't have a single one. Made me want to stay pregnant forever :P My mother's stopped when she hit menopause, but they started up again about 10 years later, but not as bad as before. I can tell you within 12 hours of when I'm going to start my period by when I have my headaches. Weather fronts get me too. If I knew 100% if would help, I'd get a hysterectomy tomorrow.
Originally posted by Peaches@Feb 11 2005, 11:07 AM I've told this story before, but for those who haven't heard it:
I've had migraines since I was 13 and one of the prophylactics for it is anti-depression medication. I've tried several and most had absolutely zero effect on me, including not helping the migraines. Understand that when you spend 3-5 days a month curled up in a ball because of the pain, you're willing to try ANYTHING.
However, they tried me once on Prozac. I started at 10mg I think (maybe 5) for 5 days - nothing, so he had me double it. Within 48 hours I went into a deep chemical depression. It was the most bizarre thing I have ever experienced. I literally felt like a heavy black cloud was over me. I couldn't convince myself to get out of bed, off the toilet, out of my chair, etc. THANKFULLY I knew what was going on, stopped taking the stuff and was fine in another 48 hours. But it really gave me an insight to what people with chemical depression go through. The doctor said this happens to a very, very small percentage of people who take it for non-depression reasons. It freaked me out so bad that when I fill out medical forms and they ask me what I'm allergic to, I put down Prozac. I don't want someone giving it to me for ANY reason.
peaches.. thats odd for such a low dose.. sounds like a chemical allergic reaction.. minimum dosage for prozac is usually 10-20mg, ramped up over a two week period... if you go off of it suddenly, not ramping down your dosage.. it is very dangerous.. severe depression can often result...
with any SSRI it takes a while for the levels to be such in your brain that a plateau is reached and a difference can be felt.. normally a two week period, depending on the dosage and the half-life of the chemiacl compound.. then the SSRI (selective seretonin uptake inhibitor) can work, keeping seretonin flooded to a degree in your synapses, creating a stable level, and hence a stable mood.. In bipolar or manic patients, prozac often elevates the highs too much and needs to be moderated with an anticonvulsant, such as depakote. but in a person who is suffering from just depression... the levels stay such that moods do not drastically elevate or depress drastically, or at least thats the idea.. everyones body chemistry is different, and sensetivityand tolerance are higher in some than others. so reactions should be monitored by a psychiatrist or primary care physician.
Maybe you were misdiagnosed, or have an allergy to one of the mixing reagents, or such a low tolerance that it upset the balance too much
peaches... do you ever have epileptic episodes or night terrors, or did you when you were younger? im sure you've asked but somebody in your condition could have mild epilepsy with some sort of hormonal trigger. just a thought.
Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 11:20 AM I'm with you, Grimm.....lithium has such a narrow range for toxicity....just a tiny bit too much can be lethal...
We don't have foxglove plants around our house, because dogs can eat it and die.
What people don't know can kill them and often does. They listen to the hype and call their docs...the docs prescribe..and the people believe this magic bullshit of advertising.
The one that has me roaring these days is the nexium commercials, and yes I realise I'm moving away from natural herbal products...this acid reflux thing....Christ, give me a break.
Change your damned diet.....stop eating the foods that give you heartburn.
Tums is another one. It has ingredients in it that make you need it more.....the more often you use them, the more you need to take it. It's called sales.
We as a people do not want the hard road. We continue to eat the foods which hurt us...take pills which only mask symptoms for the short term...we live our lives as if our bodies and minds can adapt...and the body and mind will do anything to avoid pain....it adapts as best it can....and, then we are surprised when the body says 'you win' and explodes.
All these disorders....did it occur to anyone that they are just another marketing campaign?
We all had ADD as children. Go look at the list of symptoms for ADD.....it's a syndrome..a set of behaviours...there isn't a child in the world that didn't qualify....
Acid reflux? Give me a break.
Depression? Who hasn't been depressed?
Peaches....I don't know anything about your headaches, but let me ask you this? Were you given an EEG before they diagnosed you with migraines?
the acid reflux stuff is for real.. there is a valve that controls backflow from your upper GI system into your esophagus.. i have a good friend who had this before all those prescription, now OTC medicines.. but people think heartburn is acid reflux all the time. sure, a prilosec will treat the symptoms of heartburn, but because it works doesnt mean your esophogeal valve is weak.
as for dogs.. cocoa beans are lethal, the theobromine in them can killl a dog. dont have cocoa beans? probably have a hershey bar laying around though
Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 11:20 AM I'm with you, Grimm.....lithium has such a narrow range for toxicity....just a tiny bit too much can be lethal...
We don't have foxglove plants around our house, because dogs can eat it and die.
What people don't know can kill them and often does. They listen to the hype and call their docs...the docs prescribe..and the people believe this magic bullshit of advertising.
The one that has me roaring these days is the nexium commercials, and yes I realise I'm moving away from natural herbal products...this acid reflux thing....Christ, give me a break.
Change your damned diet.....stop eating the foods that give you heartburn.
Tums is another one. It has ingredients in it that make you need it more.....the more often you use them, the more you need to take it. It's called sales.
We as a people do not want the hard road. We continue to eat the foods which hurt us...take pills which only mask symptoms for the short term...we live our lives as if our bodies and minds can adapt...and the body and mind will do anything to avoid pain....it adapts as best it can....and, then we are surprised when the body says 'you win' and explodes.
All these disorders....did it occur to anyone that they are just another marketing campaign?
We all had ADD as children. Go look at the list of symptoms for ADD.....it's a syndrome..a set of behaviours...there isn't a child in the world that didn't qualify....
Acid reflux? Give me a break.
Depression? Who hasn't been depressed?
Peaches....I don't know anything about your headaches, but let me ask you this? Were you given an EEG before they diagnosed you with migraines?
the acid reflux stuff is for real.. there is a valve that controls backflow from your upper GI system into your esophagus.. i have a good friend who had this before all those prescription, now OTC medicines.. but people think heartburn is acid reflux all the time. sure, a prilosec will treat the symptoms of heartburn, but because it works doesnt mean your esophogeal valve is weak.
as for dogs.. cocoa beans are lethal, the theobromine in them can killl a dog. dont have cocoa beans? probably have a hershey bar laying around though
Originally posted by grimm@Feb 11 2005, 03:47 PM peaches... do you ever have epileptic episodes or night terrors, or did you when you were younger? im sure you've asked but somebody in your condition could have mild epilepsy with some sort of hormonal trigger. just a thought.
Never. But they did try me on some anti-seizure medications for migraines also. I've taken three different ones I think. Nothing did anything at all except for one that made my night vision almost non-existent because I would see "light trails" and it made my extremities feel like they were asleep with the painful prickliness ALL the time.
Inderal did OK for years. I took it daily and had fewer headaches with less severity. I stopped taking it a few years ago because it was making me tired all the time. When I went back to take it again after a year or so because of how bad the headaches were, it didn't work anymore. I might try it again though. My body chemistry is just whacked I think!
Whenever something new comes out, I research it and call the Dr.
Originally posted by grimm@Feb 11 2005, 04:01 PM ouch.. like you have to take on one pain or problem to alleviate another.
Yeah. I guess after 30 years I'm just used to dealing with it. The Imitrex is really the elixir of the gods for me though Just wish I wasn't getting a tolerance for it.
I have mild migraines(diagnosed by a doctor) when Im extremely tired and/or stresed over a period of a few days.... and oinions seem to be a trigger also.
Happens maybe twice a year...
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When I was at school/college (I'm 44) no one I knew suffered from allergies
At my childrens school , you cannot wear any fragrance nor bring nuts into the school.
There are a least 6 kids I know of with the allergies...
Additionally no child was being treated for depression , anxiety , or ADD ADHD etc...
they were classed as "little shits"
I raised this with a Shrink I know...
The comments were...
1.) No one had time to consider these problems , they worked and slept.
2.) They self medicated.He did in fact say that my Irish background is in part responsible for drinking to excess it is partly genetic and societal.
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Feb 11 2005, 01:12 PM I'm too busy wondering about who I'm going to beat the shit out of to be depressed...
oops, time for another zoloft
;-))
Combined with your current avatar, mebbe 2 ?
Can I nominate the entire thread for a earl: ?
Have dealt with the same things both in my online business, and offline since
by my choice, I have always preferred either 2nd or 3rd shift. I bounce back
and forth at times (worked the last six weeks of 2004 doing 10 hour shifts
9PM to 7AM).
Am I depressed ? probably, but I've never been willing to check out "herbal"
for exactly what Grimmy and others have posted...
Anyone that knows me, knows I'd be in the "why be normal?" t-shirt anyways...
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 11 2005, 03:19 PM Just throwing in a .....Ya know....
When I was at school/college (I'm 44) no one I knew suffered from allergies
At my childrens school , you cannot wear any fragrance nor bring nuts into the school.
There are a least 6 kids I know of with the allergies...
Additionally no child was being treated for depression , anxiety , or ADD ADHD etc...
they were classed as "little shits"
I raised this with a Shrink I know...
The comments were...
1.) No one had time to consider these problems , they worked and slept.
2.) They self medicated.He did in fact say that my Irish background is in part responsible for drinking to excess it is partly genetic and societal.
yeah, I think people are more aware of these issues
I can't go into one of those Bed and Bath stores without my allergies going nuts...my wife can't wear certain types of perfumes and I have to have special shampoos, soaps and even shaving cream as I can't handle any sort of perfumes, colognes, etc. (btw, Aveeno products rock for people with frangrance allergies ;-))
Also, it used to be if a child was way way out of line, they were referred to as "shits" or just beaten...if someone had mental issues, they were locked up in an instituition or the family closet...
While I think there are way too many parents who simply give in and medicate their difficult children, it is important that we stay aware of these issues
Some of you know, my oldest son has selective mutism. At 9 years of age, he's never spoken a single word in school, he almost never talks when we are out in public and he won't even talk to some of our relatives. Years ago, he would have been classified as shy and put into a special ed program, when in reality he has this anxiety disorder than renders him unable to speak. He communicates to his teacher with sign language and for his reading assignments, he reads to me at home into a tape recorder, then takes the tape back to the school the next day to play for his class. He made a breakthrough by ordering from the ice cream truck driver himself and I lamost broke down in tears...him doing that is the equivelent of one of us walking on hot coals...most kids who have it, grow out of it but often get left behind in their studies because teachers just dismiss them as shy.
It is amazing the way these things are now publicly known and we have communications tools we didn't have several decades or even years ago
I fear us becoming too medicated of a society though as people will start to demand a medical solution to every problem (and degrading recogniztion for real problems).
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Feb 11 2005, 01:03 PM
I can't go into one of those Bed and Bath stores without my allergies going nuts...my wife can't wear certain types of perfumes and I have to have special shampoos, soaps and even shaving cream as I can't handle any sort of perfumes, colognes, etc. (btw, Aveeno products rock for people with frangrance allergies ;-))
fucking movie theatres get me every time, for some reason
Grimm, my only point with acid reflux....is there are WAY too many people being diagnosed with it....
"The esophagus is separated from the stomach by a valve or sphincter. The lower esophageal sphincter is normally closed . Heartburn is caused by the reflux, or movement, of stomach acid into the esophagus.except during swallowing. The sphincter keeps the stomach contents from refluxing or returning into the esophagus. Heartburn occurs when the pressure in the stomach overcomes this valve and forces the stomach acid into the esophagus. This can occur when the valve or sphincter is too weak to prevent the reflux or when the amount of stomach acid is too great to be kept in the stomach."
Thing is...it's a one way door....usually. What goes down doesn't usually come back up.
It is rare that it mal functions. When it does, it's pretty serious and can cause esophageal varices and other conditions.
Most people have heartburn, which is not acid reflux. If I were to believe the commercials, everyone has it, just like everyone has ADD.
Nick. This thing with allergies. I was working with a child whose behaviour was psychotic. So psychotic, that, at the age of five, he was being considered for permanent residence within an institutional setting.
Unfortunately, in this kid's history, there was mention of allergy testing, which by all indications....he had none.
Finally, as a last ditch effort, the team came up with a plan to with hold all foods and give this kid a drug holiday, in a controlled environment.
Within 24 hours, the psychotic episodes had lessened. Within a week, the episodes had stopped.
We began adding foods back and wham! This kid tried to murder his mother.
It was orange juice.
Sigh.
No one had tested for orange juice.
Peaches. I've seen people react pretty violently and in bizarre ways to certain foods. There are, especially for headache sufferers, http://www.drkoop.com/encyclopedia/43/282.html -- that's just one of the sources....not saying that's the cause; but, it could be a contributing factor....
Isn't there another drug that just came out...that is supposed to be the wonder drug for migraines?
Anthony....Being slightly manic and bi polar is like being a little bit pregnant.....You either have it or you don't. You can have some personality traits that lead you to some manic behaviours; but, you're not bi polar unless you are.
I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Back when I was a child, behavioural problems were dealt with behind closed doors and not tolerated, regardless of the cause. It wasn't until recently that we even dealt with physical, emotional or sexual abuse....or allergies......
Sorry for the book, folks...but we live in an over medicated, over analysed society who throws pills at problems without proper diagnosis..and the lack of common sense overwhelms me.
Until people get educated; and, I mean the kind of education that forces them to 'learn' their bodies....unique and special and not text book....and, until doctors learn to listen and ask the right questions.....until people take some accountability and stop looking for that magic cure.....
Until insurance companies stop fucking around with our health and the pharmaceutical companies start producing ethical information commercials....well, we're pretty much fucked.
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Raven
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Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 05:36 PM Peaches. I've seen people react pretty violently and in bizarre ways to certain foods. There are, especially for headache sufferers, http://www.drkoop.com/encyclopedia/43/282.html -- that's just one of the sources....not saying that's the cause; but, it could be a contributing factor....
Been there, done that We did that years ago where I ate nothing but rice and water for 24 hours (or so) then slowly added foods to see if there was something I was eating causing the migraines. Nothing.
Quote:
Isn't there another drug that just came out...that is supposed to be the wonder drug for migraines?
If you're talking about the recent ads, well, it's new to the public I tried it over a year ago. It was one of the anti-seizure medications I tried.
02-11-2005
The doctor said this happens to a very, very small percentage of people who take it for non-depression reasons. It freaked me out so bad that when I fill out medical forms and they ask me what I'm allergic to, I put down Prozac. I don't want someone giving it to me for ANY reason.
earl: ?
I tried it over a year ago. It was one of the anti-seizure medications I tried.
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