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A team of researchers examining the herbal remedy St. John's Wort have found it to be just as effective in treating patients with moderate to severe depression as the common anti-depressant prescription drug Paxil.
The researchers compared the effectiveness of St John's Wort to paroxetine, brand name Paxil, in a study that included 301 participants. Among those who took St. John's Wort, 50 percent reported their condition improved, compared with 35 percent taking Paxil. The researchers also found participants taking Paxil suffered 269 adverse effects, compared with 172 among those taking St. John's Wort. The researchers said they support St. John's Wort as an alternative to treat depression. The study appears in the online version of the British Medical Journal. |
not even close, an old wives tale..placebo effect. more than likely these people didnt need to be on an SSRI and could have controlled their "depression" through activity, and amusement.
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Paxil is a fucking evil drug
The side effects can be verry bad and the withdrwal when coming off the drug are aweful :grrr: |
a little norepiniphren, dopamine and tryptophan will do the trick, if you are mildly depressed;)
serious depression is a physiological problem, and should be treaated as such |
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Here is the study published in the BMJ , Grimm.
Where did you get your Doctorate? ;-)) Quote:
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yep the very same.. releases seratonin and melatonin, creating an overwhelming feeling of calm. and you dont have to take a pill... just do 10 minutes of physical activity;) dopamine is also triggered by activity, certain colors, smells, and sunlight. so if you are mildly depressed, take a walk in the sun;) |
Sex and food get me over any depression I might be feeling :)
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all show that it may or may not help mild clinical depression... not arguing that, the argument in EVERY ONE of these studies was whether the results were because of a placebo effect.. im depressed, i take a pill to make it better, i feel better, i go take a walk or talk to a friend.... or chemical.. as there is not much behind St Johns Wort releasing any more neurotransmitters than taking a walk or talking to a friend;) as for the doctorate... no phd but..school of hard knocks, that and School of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering:) |
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whats that :cryin: |
This though one says its effective in the treatment of:
" moderate to severe major depression" And the conclusion is "at least as effective". |
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and food... depending on the type releases all sorts fo lovely chemicals into your body from your brain and pancreas and gastro-intestinal system..Pancreozymin, Cholecystoknin, give you that happy saieted "full" feeling...not to mention the digestive triggers flood your synapses with seratonin, adrenalin, etc, as your body prepares for digestion |
You would be amazed at the sheer number of webmasters who suffer from varying degrees of a] depression, B] anxiety disorder, and c] ADD.
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There have been studies on St. John's Wort....and they vary in what they say about the efficacy of this herb.
Whether it is a placebo effect or there are some real properties depends on whose clinical trial you want to believe. There have been some non scientific studies, based simply on what people report as to whether St. John's Wort actually lifts the spirits; but, in my experience, all of these herbs and drugs.....are merely bandaids.... Without going into lengthy explanations, it's really a matter of economy. It's much less expensive to prescribe a lifetime of prozac, paxil, zoloft and the newer anti depressants than it is to co pay talk therapy, which is what these people truly need. All these drugs accomplish is a film over the problem...physically, they allow the psyche to fool itself into thinking its fine when it isn't.... |
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for mild depression, or insomnia (which often go hand in hand).. you can take st johns wort, melatonin, valerian tea or root, etc.. it might make you sleepy... so might tylenol PM.. and besides, what your body releases naturally is way stronger. and beware of HERBAL REMEDIES... not in this case, but in others, they are not regulated, and are sometimes way stronger than what you can get from a doc... see ginseng, ephedra, etc vs prescription varients for the the same purpose. also lack of regulation in herbal markets are dangerous.. need to consult your phsyician before taking hrebal remedies, as side effects could be a decrease in pancreatic enzymes, kidney problems, and acute rise in your Liver Enzymes. |
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I very much agree with your statement, Grimm....our bodies were not meant to go against the natural order of things.....it's unfortunate, but fuck with the circadian rhythm and things happen which can be rather annoying....
Stress, positive or negative, is seen by the body as an attack...the immune system will respond....and everyone knows it's hard to fight a war on two fronts...so we are making our systems work double time....fighting the daily constant war on disease prevention...AND fighting the stressors we add...like not enough sleep, sleeping during the day and staying awake at night..not enough physical activity..worry.....etc...etc...etc.. There are herbal remedies that are downright dangerous....people just don't get it..they think herbals are benign; when, in reality, they can kill you just like the prescription meds can. After all, digitalis comes from a plant...pretty but deadly if you take too much.... Aspirin..well, willow bark....and had anyone known of its powers, it would have been a prescription... Those are just two examples..... The damned drug companies and herbal companies with their advertisements....and, I also blame the people for believing the 'magic bullet' theory of take this. Be cured. Bah. |
I think I have ADD and I think I've always had it. It's never been diagnosed and I really don't need to take anything for it, but I do realize in hindsight that I probably could have benefited from therapy/medication or at least someone being aware of it when I was in school.
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if it isnt causing a problem in your life, like a lack of function at something important to you, then technically, it isnt a disorder. Drug companies want to sell drugs.. research and developement costs are in the billions.. so they are very convincing that every "disorder" needs treating. even mild bipoars can go without treatment, as long as the highs and the lows dont effect their lives or make them a threat to themselves and others. Raven.. substituting herbal rememdies for prescriptions is very dangerous.. Digitalis is a perfect example... used properly, in the correct synthesized form, it strenghtens the heart muscle and is a treatment for weak valve syndrome or forms of cardiomyopathy. it can stop an arythmia or tacicardia on a dime... also it can be used to stop seizures, and can be far more beneficial than tegretol, depakote or other anticonvulsives. but if taken without supervision, in an herbal form, it can stop your heart dead in its tracks. can cause your brain to seize and die... Lithium is a natural occuring element.. it is also a salt.. taking anything that contains natural lithium in it can lead to electrolytic shock and death. just because it is Natural, does not make it safe for use... and all herbal and prescription remedies can effect your liver.. so i wouldnt take anything without getting an Liver Function Test first. |
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But I think I would have done a lot better in school had I been diagnosed then. No one could understand why I was in the top percentile in aptitude tests, but did horrible in school. :P |
I will on monday. :cryin:
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I've told this story before, but for those who haven't heard it:
I've had migraines since I was 13 and one of the prophylactics for it is anti-depression medication. I've tried several and most had absolutely zero effect on me, including not helping the migraines. Understand that when you spend 3-5 days a month curled up in a ball because of the pain, you're willing to try ANYTHING. However, they tried me once on Prozac. I started at 10mg I think (maybe 5) for 5 days - nothing, so he had me double it. Within 48 hours I went into a deep chemical depression. It was the most bizarre thing I have ever experienced. I literally felt like a heavy black cloud was over me. I couldn't convince myself to get out of bed, off the toilet, out of my chair, etc. THANKFULLY I knew what was going on, stopped taking the stuff and was fine in another 48 hours. But it really gave me an insight to what people with chemical depression go through. :( The doctor said this happens to a very, very small percentage of people who take it for non-depression reasons. It freaked me out so bad that when I fill out medical forms and they ask me what I'm allergic to, I put down Prozac. I don't want someone giving it to me for ANY reason. |
I'm with you, Grimm.....lithium has such a narrow range for toxicity....just a tiny bit too much can be lethal...
We don't have foxglove plants around our house, because dogs can eat it and die. What people don't know can kill them and often does. They listen to the hype and call their docs...the docs prescribe..and the people believe this magic bullshit of advertising. The one that has me roaring these days is the nexium commercials, and yes I realise I'm moving away from natural herbal products...this acid reflux thing....Christ, give me a break. Change your damned diet.....stop eating the foods that give you heartburn. Tums is another one. It has ingredients in it that make you need it more.....the more often you use them, the more you need to take it. It's called sales. We as a people do not want the hard road. We continue to eat the foods which hurt us...take pills which only mask symptoms for the short term...we live our lives as if our bodies and minds can adapt...and the body and mind will do anything to avoid pain....it adapts as best it can....and, then we are surprised when the body says 'you win' and explodes. All these disorders....did it occur to anyone that they are just another marketing campaign? We all had ADD as children. Go look at the list of symptoms for ADD.....it's a syndrome..a set of behaviours...there isn't a child in the world that didn't qualify.... Acid reflux? Give me a break. Depression? Who hasn't been depressed? Peaches....I don't know anything about your headaches, but let me ask you this? Were you given an EEG before they diagnosed you with migraines? |
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Warning for guys - TMI to follow: It's associated with my menstrual cycle. Every female on my mother's side of the family has had them. When I was pregnant, I didn't have a single one. Made me want to stay pregnant forever :P My mother's stopped when she hit menopause, but they started up again about 10 years later, but not as bad as before. I can tell you within 12 hours of when I'm going to start my period by when I have my headaches. Weather fronts get me too. If I knew 100% if would help, I'd get a hysterectomy tomorrow. |
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But I think I would have done a lot better in school had I been diagnosed then. No one could understand why I was in the top percentile in aptitude tests, but did horrible in school. :P [/b][/quote] thats also a sign of high intelligence, low school grades are often due to disinterest or boredom;) maybe you were just too smart:) then again, your school days were before they started putting ritalin in the water:) |
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with any SSRI it takes a while for the levels to be such in your brain that a plateau is reached and a difference can be felt.. normally a two week period, depending on the dosage and the half-life of the chemiacl compound.. then the SSRI (selective seretonin uptake inhibitor) can work, keeping seretonin flooded to a degree in your synapses, creating a stable level, and hence a stable mood.. In bipolar or manic patients, prozac often elevates the highs too much and needs to be moderated with an anticonvulsant, such as depakote. but in a person who is suffering from just depression... the levels stay such that moods do not drastically elevate or depress drastically, or at least thats the idea.. everyones body chemistry is different, and sensetivityand tolerance are higher in some than others. so reactions should be monitored by a psychiatrist or primary care physician. Maybe you were misdiagnosed, or have an allergy to one of the mixing reagents, or such a low tolerance that it upset the balance too much |
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heres a crossover... my side effect for zoloft was exactly what you were looking for with your little blue pill;) |
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Warning for guys - TMI to follow: It's associated with my menstrual cycle. Every female on my mother's side of the family has had them. When I was pregnant, I didn't have a single one. Made me want to stay pregnant forever :P My mother's stopped when she hit menopause, but they started up again about 10 years later, but not as bad as before. I can tell you within 12 hours of when I'm going to start my period by when I have my headaches. Weather fronts get me too. If I knew 100% if would help, I'd get a hysterectomy tomorrow. [/b][/quote] one of many reasons i am glad i dont get a period. hormonal levels are so shot during a menstrual cycle that anything could be the cause of it. Migraines suck. ive never had them, but i have friends that do. ouch.:( |
peaches... do you ever have epileptic episodes or night terrors, or did you when you were younger? im sure you've asked but somebody in your condition could have mild epilepsy with some sort of hormonal trigger. just a thought.
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as for dogs.. cocoa beans are lethal, the theobromine in them can killl a dog. dont have cocoa beans? probably have a hershey bar laying around though:( |
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as for dogs.. cocoa beans are lethal, the theobromine in them can killl a dog. dont have cocoa beans? probably have a hershey bar laying around though:( |
doh double post.. board locked up on me.. must be the St Johns wart people or the stonemasons:)
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Inderal did OK for years. I took it daily and had fewer headaches with less severity. I stopped taking it a few years ago because it was making me tired all the time. When I went back to take it again after a year or so because of how bad the headaches were, it didn't work anymore. I might try it again though. My body chemistry is just whacked I think! Whenever something new comes out, I research it and call the Dr. :) |
ouch.. like you have to take on one pain or problem to alleviate another.
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I have mild migraines(diagnosed by a doctor) when Im extremely tired and/or stresed over a period of a few days.... and oinions seem to be a trigger also.
Happens maybe twice a year... |
be nice to have something to counter-balance with it.
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I'm too busy wondering about who I'm going to beat the shit out of to be depressed...
oops, time for another zoloft ;-)) |
I suffer from ADD, since childhood. I have no idea how I get things done, really.
Also slightly manic and bi polar. I haven't killed myself yet, so I figure I'll stay off the drugs. But man, self medicating was fun. |
Just throwing in a .....Ya know....
When I was at school/college (I'm 44) no one I knew suffered from allergies At my childrens school , you cannot wear any fragrance nor bring nuts into the school. There are a least 6 kids I know of with the allergies... Additionally no child was being treated for depression , anxiety , or ADD ADHD etc... they were classed as "little shits" :) I raised this with a Shrink I know... The comments were... 1.) No one had time to consider these problems , they worked and slept. 2.) They self medicated.He did in fact say that my Irish background is in part responsible for drinking to excess it is partly genetic and societal. |
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Can I nominate the entire thread for a :pearl: ? Have dealt with the same things both in my online business, and offline since by my choice, I have always preferred either 2nd or 3rd shift. I bounce back and forth at times (worked the last six weeks of 2004 doing 10 hour shifts 9PM to 7AM). Am I depressed ? probably, but I've never been willing to check out "herbal" for exactly what Grimmy and others have posted... Anyone that knows me, knows I'd be in the "why be normal?" t-shirt anyways... :) |
I think all creative people have some sort of issues with despression, bi-polar, ADD, etc.
I think that "edge" is what gives us the creativity... |
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I can't go into one of those Bed and Bath stores without my allergies going nuts...my wife can't wear certain types of perfumes and I have to have special shampoos, soaps and even shaving cream as I can't handle any sort of perfumes, colognes, etc. (btw, Aveeno products rock for people with frangrance allergies ;-)) Also, it used to be if a child was way way out of line, they were referred to as "shits" or just beaten...if someone had mental issues, they were locked up in an instituition or the family closet... While I think there are way too many parents who simply give in and medicate their difficult children, it is important that we stay aware of these issues Some of you know, my oldest son has selective mutism. At 9 years of age, he's never spoken a single word in school, he almost never talks when we are out in public and he won't even talk to some of our relatives. Years ago, he would have been classified as shy and put into a special ed program, when in reality he has this anxiety disorder than renders him unable to speak. He communicates to his teacher with sign language and for his reading assignments, he reads to me at home into a tape recorder, then takes the tape back to the school the next day to play for his class. He made a breakthrough by ordering from the ice cream truck driver himself and I lamost broke down in tears...him doing that is the equivelent of one of us walking on hot coals...most kids who have it, grow out of it but often get left behind in their studies because teachers just dismiss them as shy. It is amazing the way these things are now publicly known and we have communications tools we didn't have several decades or even years ago I fear us becoming too medicated of a society though as people will start to demand a medical solution to every problem (and degrading recogniztion for real problems). |
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Grimm, my only point with acid reflux....is there are WAY too many people being diagnosed with it....
"The esophagus is separated from the stomach by a valve or sphincter. The lower esophageal sphincter is normally closed . Heartburn is caused by the reflux, or movement, of stomach acid into the esophagus.except during swallowing. The sphincter keeps the stomach contents from refluxing or returning into the esophagus. Heartburn occurs when the pressure in the stomach overcomes this valve and forces the stomach acid into the esophagus. This can occur when the valve or sphincter is too weak to prevent the reflux or when the amount of stomach acid is too great to be kept in the stomach." Thing is...it's a one way door....usually. What goes down doesn't usually come back up. It is rare that it mal functions. When it does, it's pretty serious and can cause esophageal varices and other conditions. Most people have heartburn, which is not acid reflux. If I were to believe the commercials, everyone has it, just like everyone has ADD. Nick. This thing with allergies. I was working with a child whose behaviour was psychotic. So psychotic, that, at the age of five, he was being considered for permanent residence within an institutional setting. Unfortunately, in this kid's history, there was mention of allergy testing, which by all indications....he had none. Finally, as a last ditch effort, the team came up with a plan to with hold all foods and give this kid a drug holiday, in a controlled environment. Within 24 hours, the psychotic episodes had lessened. Within a week, the episodes had stopped. We began adding foods back and wham! This kid tried to murder his mother. It was orange juice. Sigh. No one had tested for orange juice. Peaches. I've seen people react pretty violently and in bizarre ways to certain foods. There are, especially for headache sufferers, http://www.drkoop.com/encyclopedia/43/282.html -- that's just one of the sources....not saying that's the cause; but, it could be a contributing factor.... Isn't there another drug that just came out...that is supposed to be the wonder drug for migraines? Anthony....Being slightly manic and bi polar is like being a little bit pregnant.....You either have it or you don't. You can have some personality traits that lead you to some manic behaviours; but, you're not bi polar unless you are. I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Back when I was a child, behavioural problems were dealt with behind closed doors and not tolerated, regardless of the cause. It wasn't until recently that we even dealt with physical, emotional or sexual abuse....or allergies...... Sorry for the book, folks...but we live in an over medicated, over analysed society who throws pills at problems without proper diagnosis..and the lack of common sense overwhelms me. Until people get educated; and, I mean the kind of education that forces them to 'learn' their bodies....unique and special and not text book....and, until doctors learn to listen and ask the right questions.....until people take some accountability and stop looking for that magic cure..... Until insurance companies stop fucking around with our health and the pharmaceutical companies start producing ethical information commercials....well, we're pretty much fucked. |
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Jesus, y'all are a mess. I never figured I was the normal one.
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I don't get depressed, I get even.
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