If your considering copy and pasting your latest drive by spam here because you cant find any other place.
DONT!
Oprano has a ZERO tolerance policy for spam. Yours WILL be deleted. If you are looking for more exposure for your product please contact advertising@oprano.com for more information.
Legacy Archived Main BoardBusiness chat and general industry chat. All participation is welcome. Dont post your fucking spam here.
Rolo and timon touched on it , I'll expand a little but someone can really do this better
1 webmaster doing 200 joins a day
2 webmasters doing 100 joins a day
4 doing 50 joins a day
The masses...
2000 doing 400 joins a day..
1000 joins a day , life is good nigga!!!
First you have this base of 400 joins from 2000 to protect yr fucking merchant account.
And its easy money.
Get a couple of board whores ( I mean reps) to wander the boards answer icq etc and keep the sheep happy.
These GFY Sheep are also wayyyyyy easier to shave and vocal ones can be reversed shaved.
Reversed shaved sheep can use them as one of the sheep slaughter houses use to lead the rest to be slaughtered.What are they called?
Your "players" you prepay them , then REALLY , shave them cause most will
a) have spent the money will not have the nerve to go on boards and say "Nigga on the test , obne days traffic got 50 joins..I'm doing nothing different , but I'm only getting 10!!! WTF!!"
Then when they whine pay them just enough to keep them.....
but the 2000 sheep are really nice to have
forgotten links..
never check there stats (check your stats for access , if they nev4er access for ages...Free joins!!! ;-))
Originally posted by jaYMan@Dec 20 2004, 09:56 AM I think its worth giving the 95% unproductive folks attention. You never know which one of them is gonna be the next big traffic guy.
ah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very good.
"Ron Levy's First Law"
"Be very nice to newbies cause one of them will be the next PK"
Was truer in the past than now.
Most real big hitters now are either mailers , and frankly the big mailers would rather mail other products than adult.Better ROI , easier to get through and wires ,literally, the next day.
They are also very very quiet.Some are also up and down.Its the nature of the business and the character of the mailer.
As in "Fuck all boxes pulled"
and "Holy fuck I've got 100k!! Fuck watching my boxes etc etc , where the white women at?!?!?"
Originally posted by Lee@Dec 20 2004, 10:15 AM Dravyk,
Gary and I have been thinking the same thing these last few weeks and we have come to the conclusion that when we launch our new program its going to launch as invite only.
This way, not only do we know the affiliates personally but, we know a lot of the shit that happens with the 95% isnt going to.
We'll be able to spend more time concentrating on the business side of things as oppose to the dramatical (is that even a word?) side of things.
More money for the affiliates but more importantly, more money for us
Originally posted by Timon@Dec 20 2004, 10:27 AM Another reason, if a sponsor owns a large sponsor program the big hitter has insurance. If you don't pay him he can go on the boards and ruin your program.
It's easier to get large post paid PPS or PPC deals done if the big hitter has recourse when he gets ripped off.
Yup , if a traffic whore is busy on boards , well known , it DOES make it much harder to rip him off.
;-)))
I mean if some guy called "the crew" posted and said he hadn't been paid by so and so
here we'd tell him we don't give a fuck.ESPECIALLY if they were a sponsor (hint)
(Unless we were trying to lure him onto our proggy in which case we'd take his part.) ;-))
On gfy if his post count wasn't in the 10k area he's be fucked.
(I have seen guys who I KNOW can do 100 joins a day no worries post on GFY and get roasted)
On weasel's board , Brad would tell him how great Brad was.
On DMPM they'd tell him to get drunk , and spark a dubby.
With a lot of really excellent talk (and pearls) around here on shaving and how much programs pay and the rest of the obvious stuff that the GFYers-at-large don't understand ... seems the perfect time to ask this:
Sponsors, why bother at all with the 95 percent of the webmasters who make you next to nothing, and just go with the 5 percent who do?
The 95% give you the least traffic, cause the most headaches, require sponsor content, require handholding thus requiring marketing and affiliates reps, won't even signup unless these days unless you give them everything: POTDs, free hosted galleries, free hosted sites, then there's the advertising to attact these folks, on boards, in mags, and often sponsoring parties too. Why even bother?
Natch, I have my own thoughts and answers on why to bother -- but even with those it's debatable sometimes if it's worth it. In any case, please discuss.
Gary and I have been thinking the same thing these last few weeks and we have come to the conclusion that when we launch our new program its going to launch as invite only.
This way, not only do we know the affiliates personally but, we know a lot of the shit that happens with the 95% isnt going to.
We'll be able to spend more time concentrating on the business side of things as oppose to the dramatical (is that even a word?) side of things.
More money for the affiliates but more importantly, more money for us
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 20 2004, 12:21 PM Most real big hitters now are either mailers , and frankly the big mailers would rather mail other products than adult.Better ROI , easier to get through and wires ,literally, the next day.
So if you decide to sell something other than dirty pictures a fat 5% rolodex you have built up over the years will become very handy indeed ;-))
Another reason, if a sponsor owns a large sponsor program the big hitter has insurance. If you don't pay him he can go on the boards and ruin your program.
It's easier to get large post paid PPS or PPC deals done if the big hitter has recourse when he gets ripped off.
Actually Adultcheck stopped bothering with the 95% last year. Rumor has it that within a month they were basically back up to normal join numbers with a major increase in their bottom line.
Good stuff, since I started this out, some of my thoughts on this:
Why to open it up:
- Agree with Jayman and Timon, it's often how you find some of the more elusive 5% is by getting it out to masses
- Corallary: You never know who will be the next big hitter.
- Balance ... as Nick said, nice to have 10 guys sending 200 sales a day, but why toss out 2000 folks sending in 100? Take all you can get.
- Corallary: What if for whatever reason a few of your top folks bail? You still have (the other top folks) and all en-mass sales.
- More webmasters with links out there, more sites, galleries pages with links out there means: Greater SE traffic, greater TGP traffic, brand name awareness among surfers at large, more
Why to keep it invite:
- Still is it worth the headaches and expense?
- Less fraud. You can monitor fraud (or not worry as much about it) if you only have 10-25 webmasters you've established a relationship with (see KK's post) sending you traffic.
Originally posted by *KK*@Dec 20 2004, 12:40 PM Frankly I don't see why anyone much needs affiliates these days anyway. For search engines, yeah, I can see it. But for the rest of it, wouldn't it just be easier to deal directly with the traffic sources? If your affiliates are spending a couple hundred bucks for a link they are buying and they're profiting from that expense thru the payouts you send them, why not cut them out entirely and just buy the spots yourself.
Most of the tgps and link lists these days will list sponsor hosted galleries directly for the sponsors, and it's not like most sponsors can't afford to buy spots in bulk and still save money in the long run since they don't have to pay inflated commissions to affiliates.
And that's before you even calculate the fraud control costs, the administrative expenses, and the credits and chargebacks that even good affiliates are prone to causing.
BANG!!!!
earl:
You have just singlehandly ruined every webmaster on GFY.
I agree nick....and one more reason to keep the sheep is that the sheep supply the big players with traffic...hence, larger traffic trades between the big players....gives you more traffic to make deals....
Interesting gossip about AdultCheck though....if it's true, it certainly gives you something to think about....
__________________
A bit of fragrance always clings to the hand that gives the rose mail me
Having your own self generated traffic is the way of the future.
Dealing directly at the top of the food chain is the only way.
Being taken seriously by those is vital.
Frankly I don't see why anyone much needs affiliates these days anyway. For search engines, yeah, I can see it. But for the rest of it, wouldn't it just be easier to deal directly with the traffic sources? If your affiliates are spending a couple hundred bucks for a link they are buying and they're profiting from that expense thru the payouts you send them, why not cut them out entirely and just buy the spots yourself.
Most of the tgps and link lists these days will list sponsor hosted galleries directly for the sponsors, and it's not like most sponsors can't afford to buy spots in bulk and still save money in the long run since they don't have to pay inflated commissions to affiliates.
And that's before you even calculate the fraud control costs, the administrative expenses, and the credits and chargebacks that even good affiliates are prone to causing.
Okay...sounds good. All big programs please close your doors to your 95% of affiliates so I can start my own program and rake in all the traffic and sales....hey, I'm not below taking leftovers home.
There will ALWAYS be other programs out there willing to take those other 95%. If bigger programs do close their doors, there will always be other programs ready and willing to take in the displaced webmasters. This would put them in a unique position as they would have branding potential, most likely quickly grow in size, create their own 5% and possibly recruit some of your 5% to their program.
I'm in.
__________________
A bit of fragrance always clings to the hand that gives the rose mail me
Originally posted by gigi@Dec 20 2004, 05:06 PM Okay...sounds good. All big programs please close your doors to your 95% of affiliates so I can start my own program and rake in all the traffic and sales....hey, I'm not below taking leftovers home.
There will ALWAYS be other programs out there willing to take those other 95%. If bigger programs do close their doors, there will always be other programs ready and willing to take in the displaced webmasters. This would put them in a unique position as they would have branding potential, most likely quickly grow in size, create their own 5% and possibly recruit some of your 5% to their program.
I'm in.
Im in more of an agreement with you GiGi.
Thinks like cobranging and comarketing are the wave of the future. I hope they all close down personally.
"Game getting way more fierce"
__________________
We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage."
"Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson
"The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
Originally posted by Lee@Dec 20 2004, 02:28 PM One thing that hasnt been mentioned on the 'invite only' front is that if you do run an program like that..
Once one of the sheep in the 95% find out that they HAVENT bee invited abou tit they will inevitably start drama about it
That in itself can be a great tool to an affiliate program, if marketed in the right way....
I would rather have 100% of 95% contacting me WANTING to join than not, at least this way i can ask them about their traffic sources etc etc
Sure. That may work.
But, if you are willing to put in the time and $ to monitor your 95% webmasters, the current open program model is still a completely viable option. Your ROI may be a bit smaller (based on the thoughts posted here) but you will still do very well....especially if you don't have the competition from the larger programs.
__________________
A bit of fragrance always clings to the hand that gives the rose mail me
Originally posted by jaYMan@Dec 21 2004, 03:56 AM I think its worth giving the 95% unproductive folks attention. You never know which one of them is gonna be the next big traffic guy.
earl:
I just try and be the type of sponsor I wish I had when I was merely a simple webhamster.
Fuck I love the way that rolls off your tongue, webhamster ...
Originally posted by gigi@Dec 20 2004, 02:33 PM But, if you are willing to put in the time and $ to monitor your 95% webmasters, the current open program model is still a completely viable option. Your ROI may be a bit smaller (based on the thoughts posted here) but you will still do very well....especially if you don't have the competition from the larger programs.
Your bottom line would be in the red consistently and completely if all you got for affiliates was everyone else's leftovers.
Without the float that minimum payouts give to alot of programs, their cash position would be negative as well, even with the shave.
The only real reason to have affiliates (besides the ego of how many signups daily someone does) is because even if you convert 1/100, there's still 99 hits to send somewhere else and try to recoup some of the immediate outlay.
PPS is like a Ponzi scheme, it only works as long as everyone plays the same game lol...
Originally posted by *KK*@Dec 21 2004, 01:41 PM The only real reason to have affiliates (besides the ego of how many signups daily someone does) is because even if you convert 1/100, there's still 99 hits to send somewhere else and try to recoup some of the immediate outlay.
Waiting for Nick to say "It's all about traffic." (The bastard.)
Originally posted by gigi@Dec 21 2004, 11:19 AM I'm not sure why the potential program would be in the red with leftovers. If the big programs DID indeed close their doors, there's a HUGE influx of displaced webmasters looking for a place to send their traffic. The sheer volume of webmasters from MANY different programs would certainly be comparible to the 5% the other programs retained. Out of the displaced webmasters, some are going to start producing bigger #'s over time. You'd be a fool not to watch stats carefully, pull out your top producers and work with them to produce on an even higher level.
Sure, it's time, energy, and $....but, like I said, if you're willing to do the work, it's still a viable option.
Of course this is based on just ONE open PPS program and all other PPS's close their doors.
Maybe what we will start seeing is the big PPS programs go private, and the RevShare model will be reserved for the 95% webmasters. BUT, I can tell you that whoever creates an Open PPS program would probably do quite well.
And yes, traffic is king...always has been, always will be. An open PPS program would have control over ALOT of traffic. That can never be a bad thing.
Renaissance, here we come!
I'm going to make it really simple, not trying to be rude to you gigi, but I've got to go postal at the Sprint store, err, pick up my phone that is, in a few.
PPS has a tremendous front end outlay of cash to make the payouts, especially on large amounts of signups. Bill PMBs done the math well enough in his example. He didn't, from what I saw, account for the tremendous administrative costs in fraud monitoring, nor did he account for credits and chargebacks -- AND FINES -- that are associated with large numbers of daily joins by large numbers of affiliates (forgive me for skimming if I missed something Bill) -- there is no way around this -- even the best intentioned affiliate - when being paid 35+ for a 3 dollar sale, is going to market the site in a manner that we'll refer to as "overmarketing" for lack of a better word.
The only way PPS has stayed ahead of the curve is by utilizing their leftover traffic to try and recoup some of the red money as fast as possible. I pay 40, I send my exits to others that pay 40 and hopefully for every 40 I pay out, I bring in 40. In a perfect world.
Instead, I pay 40, I might bring in 20 on each 40 if I'm lucky. So I'm only half in the hole from where I started. But wait, exits are getting harder, pops are getting harder, mailing is getting harder, upsells aren't exactly setting the world on fire, and cross sales are slowly but surely becoming extinct as well.
So I'm sitting her with a 20 payout per member on a 3 dollar sale. Ok maybe that's still too perfect a world but the math is easier this way. I now have to turn every member into an average of 20 bucks revenue just to break even. Member retention is at an all time low, sites are more expensive to produce than ever with reality and video content being the in thing. Yeah, there are those other expenses like bandwidth and content costs to factor into the mix as well, don't forget.
If I'm charging 40 bucks a month, and 1/3 of my members actually make it to the first recur, then I'm still sucking hind tit to the tune of around what, 4 bucks to the negative per member give or take?
Originally posted by *KK*@Dec 21 2004, 02:26 PM PPS has a tremendous front end outlay of cash to make the payouts, especially on large amounts of signups. Bill PMBs done the math well enough in his example. He didn't, from what I saw, account for the tremendous administrative costs in fraud monitoring, nor did he account for credits and chargebacks -- AND FINES -- that are associated with large numbers of daily joins by large numbers of affiliates (forgive me for skimming if I missed something Bill) -- there is no way around this -- even the best intentioned affiliate - when being paid 35+ for a 3 dollar sale, is going to market the site in a manner that we'll refer to as "overmarketing" for lack of a better word.
The only way PPS has stayed ahead of the curve is by utilizing their leftover traffic to try and recoup some of the red money as fast as possible. I pay 40, I send my exits to others that pay 40 and hopefully for every 40 I pay out, I bring in 40. In a perfect world.
Instead, I pay 40, I might bring in 20 on each 40 if I'm lucky. So I'm only half in the hole from where I started. But wait, exits are getting harder, pops are getting harder, mailing is getting harder, upsells aren't exactly setting the world on fire, and cross sales are slowly but surely becoming extinct as well.
So I'm sitting her with a 20 payout per member on a 3 dollar sale. Ok maybe that's still too perfect a world but the math is easier this way. I now have to turn every member into an average of 20 bucks revenue just to break even. Member retention is at an all time low, sites are more expensive to produce than ever with reality and video content being the in thing. Yeah, there are those other expenses like bandwidth and content costs to factor into the mix as well, don't forget.
If I'm charging 40 bucks a month, and 1/3 of my members actually make it to the first recur, then I'm still sucking hind tit to the tune of around what, 4 bucks to the negative per member give or take?
I guess I'll make it up on volume.
Pretty much what was said above...you can lower payouts....
The entire PPS model depends on recurring members, trading non-producing traffic and upsells. You won't see an ROI for the first 3-4 months...that's a given.
__________________
A bit of fragrance always clings to the hand that gives the rose mail me
Originally posted by gigi@Dec 21 2004, 04:07 PM Pretty much what was said above...you can lower payouts....
The entire PPS model depends on recurring members, trading non-producing traffic and upsells. You won't see an ROI for the first 3-4 months...that's a given.
Well it's very unfortunate I didn't get to set any of those cocksucking dumbass barely 21 year old "communications consultants" at Sprint on fire this afternoon.
gigi -- this is where the whole thing turns into a Ponzi scheme.
12-20-2004
will not have the nerve to go on boards and say "Nigga on the test , obne days traffic got 50 joins..I'm doing nothing different , but I'm only getting 10!!! WTF!!"
earl: 
Linear Mode
