Rolo and timon touched on it , I'll expand a little but someone can really do this better


1 webmaster doing 200 joins a day
2 webmasters doing 100 joins a day
4 doing 50 joins a day

The masses...

2000 doing 400 joins a day..


1000 joins a day , life is good nigga!!! :)

First you have this base of 400 joins from 2000 to protect yr fucking merchant account.

And its easy money.

Get a couple of board whores ( I mean reps) to wander the boards answer icq etc and keep the sheep happy.

These GFY Sheep are also wayyyyyy easier to shave and vocal ones can be reversed shaved.

Reversed shaved sheep can use them as one of the sheep slaughter houses use to lead the rest to be slaughtered.What are they called?

Your "players" you prepay them , then REALLY , shave them cause most will
a) have spent the money
B) will not have the nerve to go on boards and say "Nigga on the test , obne days traffic got 50 joins..I'm doing nothing different , but I'm only getting 10!!! WTF!!"

Then when they whine pay them just enough to keep them.....

but the 2000 sheep are really nice to have
forgotten links..
never check there stats (check your stats for access , if they nev4er access for ages...Free joins!!! ;-))


but hang on...

I'm telling you the plot...


;-)))

ah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very good. :)

"Ron Levy's First Law"

"Be very nice to newbies cause one of them will be the next PK"

Was truer in the past than now.

Most real big hitters now are either mailers , and frankly the big mailers would rather mail other products than adult.Better ROI , easier to get through and wires ,literally, the next day.

They are also very very quiet.Some are also up and down.Its the nature of the business and the character of the mailer.

As in "Fuck all boxes pulled"

and "Holy fuck I've got 100k!! Fuck watching my boxes etc etc , where the white women at?!?!?"

;-))

Or SE guys...

gotta herd some sheep too...

See reasons above.

Gotta kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince.

So if you decide to sell something other than dirty pictures a fat 5% rolodex you have built up over the years will become very handy indeed ;-)) [/b][/quote]
my R-n!

So it would!

-)))

Yup , if a traffic whore is busy on boards , well known , it DOES make it much harder to rip him off.

;-)))

I mean if some guy called "the crew" posted and said he hadn't been paid by so and so

here we'd tell him we don't give a fuck.ESPECIALLY if they were a sponsor (hint)
(Unless we were trying to lure him onto our proggy in which case we'd take his part.) ;-))

On gfy if his post count wasn't in the 10k area he's be fucked.
(I have seen guys who I KNOW can do 100 joins a day no worries post on GFY and get roasted)

On weasel's board , Brad would tell him how great Brad was.

On DMPM they'd tell him to get drunk , and spark a dubby.


;-)))

With a lot of really excellent talk (and pearls) around here on shaving and how much programs pay and the rest of the obvious stuff that the GFYers-at-large don't understand ... seems the perfect time to ask this:

Sponsors, why bother at all with the 95 percent of the webmasters who make you next to nothing, and just go with the 5 percent who do?

The 95% give you the least traffic, cause the most headaches, require sponsor content, require handholding thus requiring marketing and affiliates reps, won't even signup unless these days unless you give them everything: POTDs, free hosted galleries, free hosted sites, then there's the advertising to attact these folks, on boards, in mags, and often sponsoring parties too. Why even bother?

Natch, I have my own thoughts and answers on why to bother -- but even with those it's debatable sometimes if it's worth it. In any case, please discuss. :)

I think its worth giving the 95% unproductive folks attention. You never know which one of them is gonna be the next big traffic guy.

Drav, the answer is simple.

If you don't put up the program you are not going to find the good 5% ;-)

The larger your 100% the larger your 5%, simple math ;-)

oh yeah, and what nick said too ;-)

Dravyk,

Gary and I have been thinking the same thing these last few weeks and we have come to the conclusion that when we launch our new program its going to launch as invite only.

This way, not only do we know the affiliates personally but, we know a lot of the shit that happens with the 95% isnt going to.

We'll be able to spend more time concentrating on the business side of things as oppose to the dramatical (is that even a word?) side of things.

More money for the affiliates but more importantly, more money for us ;)

So if you decide to sell something other than dirty pictures a fat 5% rolodex you have built up over the years will become very handy indeed ;-))

Another reason, if a sponsor owns a large sponsor program the big hitter has insurance. If you don't pay him he can go on the boards and ruin your program.

It's easier to get large post paid PPS or PPC deals done if the big hitter has recourse when he gets ripped off.

Actually Adultcheck stopped bothering with the 95% last year. Rumor has it that within a month they were basically back up to normal join numbers with a major increase in their bottom line.

So effectively there be two schools of thought...

1.) get everyone
2.) invite only.

It seems that people are going more towards invite only , so far on this board.

If Ants people are going that way , and Adultcheck has , it certainly must have it merits , cause these "playas" aren't dumb.

But I still see the need for shearing sheep. Call me old fashioned...


;-))

Our non adult mainstream has become invite only.

We intend to do the same for our adult that will be launching.

That's worth two. :pearl: :pearl:

Good stuff, since I started this out, some of my thoughts on this:

Why to open it up:

- Agree with Jayman and Timon, it's often how you find some of the more elusive 5% is by getting it out to masses

- Corallary: You never know who will be the next big hitter.

- Balance ... as Nick said, nice to have 10 guys sending 200 sales a day, but why toss out 2000 folks sending in 100? Take all you can get.

- Corallary: What if for whatever reason a few of your top folks bail? You still have (the other top folks) and all en-mass sales.

- More webmasters with links out there, more sites, galleries pages with links out there means: Greater SE traffic, greater TGP traffic, brand name awareness among surfers at large, more

Why to keep it invite:

- Still is it worth the headaches and expense?

- Less fraud. You can monitor fraud (or not worry as much about it) if you only have 10-25 webmasters you've established a relationship with (see KK's post) sending you traffic.

BANG!!!!

:pearl:

You have just singlehandly ruined every webmaster on GFY.

;-))

Btw been trying to call? Is yr phone working ok?


ahahahahahaha I am such a ..ahahahahahha

I agree nick....and one more reason to keep the sheep is that the sheep supply the big players with traffic...hence, larger traffic trades between the big players....gives you more traffic to make deals....

Interesting gossip about AdultCheck though....if it's true, it certainly gives you something to think about....

Having your own self generated traffic is the way of the future.
Dealing directly at the top of the food chain is the only way.
Being taken seriously by those is vital.

Always remember and refer to the Rules of Aquisition!! :P

For example, in Nick's case above refer to rule #231

Rule 231 » There's a sucker born every minute; be sure you're the first to find each one.

Frankly I don't see why anyone much needs affiliates these days anyway. For search engines, yeah, I can see it. But for the rest of it, wouldn't it just be easier to deal directly with the traffic sources? If your affiliates are spending a couple hundred bucks for a link they are buying and they're profiting from that expense thru the payouts you send them, why not cut them out entirely and just buy the spots yourself.

Most of the tgps and link lists these days will list sponsor hosted galleries directly for the sponsors, and it's not like most sponsors can't afford to buy spots in bulk and still save money in the long run since they don't have to pay inflated commissions to affiliates.

And that's before you even calculate the fraud control costs, the administrative expenses, and the credits and chargebacks that even good affiliates are prone to causing.

Haha, I've been saying get rid of the resellers forever and a day.

The fucking phone works, just not well and not nicely. I'm thinking about just shooting IT.

Okay...sounds good. All big programs please close your doors to your 95% of affiliates so I can start my own program and rake in all the traffic and sales....hey, I'm not below taking leftovers home. ;)

There will ALWAYS be other programs out there willing to take those other 95%. If bigger programs do close their doors, there will always be other programs ready and willing to take in the displaced webmasters. This would put them in a unique position as they would have branding potential, most likely quickly grow in size, create their own 5% and possibly recruit some of your 5% to their program.

I'm in.

Im in more of an agreement with you GiGi.

Thinks like cobranging and comarketing are the wave of the future. I hope they all close down personally.

"Game getting way more fierce"

One thing that hasnt been mentioned on the 'invite only' front is that if you do run an program like that..

Once one of the sheep in the 95% find out that they HAVENT bee invited abou tit they will inevitably start drama about it ;)

That in itself can be a great tool to an affiliate program, if marketed in the right way....

I would rather have 100% of 95% contacting me WANTING to join than not, at least this way i can ask them about their traffic sources etc etc ;)

Sure. That may work.

But, if you are willing to put in the time and $ to monitor your 95% webmasters, the current open program model is still a completely viable option. Your ROI may be a bit smaller (based on the thoughts posted here) but you will still do very well....especially if you don't have the competition from the larger programs.

:pearl:

I just try and be the type of sponsor I wish I had when I was merely a simple webhamster.

Fuck I love the way that rolls off your tongue, webhamster ...

Love it !

:ph34r:

Waiting for Nick to say "It's all about traffic." (The bastard.) :) [/b][/quote]
Nicks 6th law...

;-))

Vick,
Colins build an empire still holds true to this day.

Mine was in ruins , or distressed , but my r-n you can restore them quick or demolish and rebuild in certain cases.

I'm looking forward to a Renaisance period. ;-))

Drav,
You are so busy on this board , and such an old friend , even though you taunt me , If we don't link to mainstreamwebmasters.com.

We will.And if we do , we will make it bigger. :)

But I'd like more coverage on allofem...

;-)))

We could hire 160 webmasters to make search engine pages. :) [/b][/quote]
shut up!!!

lol

Would Seguru bein those 160 webhamsters? ;) [/b][/quote]
No

Your bottom line would be in the red consistently and completely if all you got for affiliates was everyone else's leftovers.

Without the float that minimum payouts give to alot of programs, their cash position would be negative as well, even with the shave.

The only real reason to have affiliates (besides the ego of how many signups daily someone does) is because even if you convert 1/100, there's still 99 hits to send somewhere else and try to recoup some of the immediate outlay.

PPS is like a Ponzi scheme, it only works as long as everyone plays the same game lol...

Well I'm afraid they'd have to take a pay cut...lol

The best would be to own two programs...

One for "playas" paying say 35 a join (less maintainance)
One for web hamsters (the 95%) paying 17.50 (to compensate for high maintaince)

;-)))

How soon they forget. :)

Reminds me. Weren't you going to put up 10 somethings from the past and let people guess? [/b][/quote]
You have a more encyclopedic knowledge , dee..

err dravyk ;-))

Waiting for Nick to say "It's all about traffic." (The bastard.) :)

of the past and present

B)

If the top 5% walked you still have to be able to ......

of the past and present

B)

If the top 5% walked you still have to be able to ...... [/b][/quote]
We could hire 160 webmasters to make search engine pages. :)

We could hire 160 webmasters to make search engine pages. :) [/b][/quote]
:rolleyes: No comment.

Nicks 6th law...

;-))

Vick,
Colins build an empire still holds true to this day.

Mine was in ruins , or distressed , but my r-n you can restore them quick or demolish and rebuild in certain cases.

I'm looking forward to a Renaisance period. ;-))

Drav,
You are so busy on this board , and such an old friend , even though you taunt me , If we don't link to mainstreamwebmasters.com.

We will.And if we do , we will make it bigger. :)

But I'd like more coverage on allofem...

;-)))[/b][/quote]
We'll work something out, Nick. :)

... Of course, let me get the sites back up first. :huh:

shut up!!!

lol [/b][/quote]
I don't even wanna know. :ph34r:

Would Seguru bein those 160 webhamsters? ;)

Your bottom line would be in the red consistently and completely if all you got for affiliates was everyone else's leftovers.

Without the float that minimum payouts give to alot of programs, their cash position would be negative as well, even with the shave.

The only real reason to have affiliates (besides the ego of how many signups daily someone does) is because even if you convert 1/100, there's still 99 hits to send somewhere else and try to recoup some of the immediate outlay.

PPS is like a Ponzi scheme, it only works as long as everyone plays the same game lol... [/b][/quote]
I'm not sure why the potential program would be in the red with leftovers. If the big programs DID indeed close their doors, there's a HUGE influx of displaced webmasters looking for a place to send their traffic. The sheer volume of webmasters from MANY different programs would certainly be comparible to the 5% the other programs retained. Out of the displaced webmasters, some are going to start producing bigger #'s over time. You'd be a fool not to watch stats carefully, pull out your top producers and work with them to produce on an even higher level.

Sure, it's time, energy, and $....but, like I said, if you're willing to do the work, it's still a viable option.

Of course this is based on just ONE open PPS program and all other PPS's close their doors.

Maybe what we will start seeing is the big PPS programs go private, and the RevShare model will be reserved for the 95% webmasters. BUT, I can tell you that whoever creates an Open PPS program would probably do quite well.

And yes, traffic is king...always has been, always will be. An open PPS program would have control over ALOT of traffic. That can never be a bad thing. ;)

Renaissance, here we come!

No [/b][/quote]
How soon they forget. :)

Reminds me. Weren't you going to put up 10 somethings from the past and let people guess?

I heard homos read allofem.

I'm going to make it really simple, not trying to be rude to you gigi, but I've got to go postal at the Sprint store, err, pick up my phone that is, in a few.

PPS has a tremendous front end outlay of cash to make the payouts, especially on large amounts of signups. Bill PMBs done the math well enough in his example. He didn't, from what I saw, account for the tremendous administrative costs in fraud monitoring, nor did he account for credits and chargebacks -- AND FINES -- that are associated with large numbers of daily joins by large numbers of affiliates (forgive me for skimming if I missed something Bill) -- there is no way around this -- even the best intentioned affiliate - when being paid 35+ for a 3 dollar sale, is going to market the site in a manner that we'll refer to as "overmarketing" for lack of a better word.

The only way PPS has stayed ahead of the curve is by utilizing their leftover traffic to try and recoup some of the red money as fast as possible. I pay 40, I send my exits to others that pay 40 and hopefully for every 40 I pay out, I bring in 40. In a perfect world.

Instead, I pay 40, I might bring in 20 on each 40 if I'm lucky. So I'm only half in the hole from where I started. But wait, exits are getting harder, pops are getting harder, mailing is getting harder, upsells aren't exactly setting the world on fire, and cross sales are slowly but surely becoming extinct as well.

So I'm sitting her with a 20 payout per member on a 3 dollar sale. Ok maybe that's still too perfect a world but the math is easier this way. I now have to turn every member into an average of 20 bucks revenue just to break even. Member retention is at an all time low, sites are more expensive to produce than ever with reality and video content being the in thing. Yeah, there are those other expenses like bandwidth and content costs to factor into the mix as well, don't forget.

If I'm charging 40 bucks a month, and 1/3 of my members actually make it to the first recur, then I'm still sucking hind tit to the tune of around what, 4 bucks to the negative per member give or take?

I guess I'll make it up on volume. [/b][/quote]
You aren't just an interesting shoe horse.

;-))

I'm going to make it really simple, not trying to be rude to you gigi, but I've got to go postal at the Sprint store, err, pick up my phone that is, in a few.

PPS has a tremendous front end outlay of cash to make the payouts, especially on large amounts of signups. Bill PMBs done the math well enough in his example. He didn't, from what I saw, account for the tremendous administrative costs in fraud monitoring, nor did he account for credits and chargebacks -- AND FINES -- that are associated with large numbers of daily joins by large numbers of affiliates (forgive me for skimming if I missed something Bill) -- there is no way around this -- even the best intentioned affiliate - when being paid 35+ for a 3 dollar sale, is going to market the site in a manner that we'll refer to as "overmarketing" for lack of a better word.

The only way PPS has stayed ahead of the curve is by utilizing their leftover traffic to try and recoup some of the red money as fast as possible. I pay 40, I send my exits to others that pay 40 and hopefully for every 40 I pay out, I bring in 40. In a perfect world.

Instead, I pay 40, I might bring in 20 on each 40 if I'm lucky. So I'm only half in the hole from where I started. But wait, exits are getting harder, pops are getting harder, mailing is getting harder, upsells aren't exactly setting the world on fire, and cross sales are slowly but surely becoming extinct as well.

So I'm sitting her with a 20 payout per member on a 3 dollar sale. Ok maybe that's still too perfect a world but the math is easier this way. I now have to turn every member into an average of 20 bucks revenue just to break even. Member retention is at an all time low, sites are more expensive to produce than ever with reality and video content being the in thing. Yeah, there are those other expenses like bandwidth and content costs to factor into the mix as well, don't forget.

If I'm charging 40 bucks a month, and 1/3 of my members actually make it to the first recur, then I'm still sucking hind tit to the tune of around what, 4 bucks to the negative per member give or take?

I guess I'll make it up on volume.

Oh, absolutely....but, for those webmasters, $17.50 is better than 0, and better than RevShare to some....

Pretty much what was said above...you can lower payouts....

The entire PPS model depends on recurring members, trading non-producing traffic and upsells. You won't see an ROI for the first 3-4 months...that's a given.

Only heard?

I thought you read it on a daily basis ;)

Well it's very unfortunate I didn't get to set any of those cocksucking dumbass barely 21 year old "communications consultants" at Sprint on fire this afternoon.

gigi -- this is where the whole thing turns into a Ponzi scheme.

You can't lower payouts.