Does anyone care about "abuse of terrorists"?

[Mike AI]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041207/D86R3D102.html


SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) - U.S. special forces accused of abusing prisoners in Iraq threatened Defense Intelligence Agency personnel who saw the mistreatment, according to U.S. government memos released Tuesday by the American Civil Liberties Union.

The special forces also monitored e-mails sent by defense personnel and ordered them "not to talk to anyone" in the United States about what they saw, said one memo written by the Defense Intelligence Agency chief, who complained to his Pentagon bosses about the harassment.

In addition, the special forces confiscated photos of a prisoner who had been punched in the face.

Prisoners arriving at a detention center in Baghdad had "burn marks on their backs" as well as bruises and some complained of kidney pain, according to the June 25, 2004 memo.



FBI agents also reported seeing detainees at Abu Ghraib subjected to sleep deprivation, humiliation and forced nudity between October and December 2003 - when the most serious abuses allegedly took place in a scandal that's remains under investigation.

The release of the ACLU documents comes a day after The Associated Press reported that a senior FBI official wrote a letter to the Army's top criminal investigator complaining about "highly aggressive" interrogation techniques at the U.S. prison camp in Guantanamo Bay dating back to 2002 - more than a year before the scandal broke at the Iraqi prison.

The memos reveal behind-the-scenes tensions between the FBI and U.S. military and intelligence task forces running prisoner interrogations at Guantanamo and in Iraq as the Bush administration sought better intelligence to fight terrorists and the deadly Iraq insurgency.

"These documents tell a damning story of sanctioned government abuse - a story that the government has tried to hide and may well come back to haunt our own troops captured in Iraq," said Anthony D. Romero, executive director of the New York-based ACLU.

The documents were released only after a federal court ordered the Pentagon and other government agencies to comply with a year-old request filed under the Freedom of Information Act filed by the ACLU, the Center for Constitutional Rights, Physicians for Human Rights, Veterans for Common Sense and Veterans for Peace.




A spokesman for U.S. Central Command in Tampa, Florida, which directs special military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, declined to comment on specific allegations.

"We take all issues of detainee abuse very seriously and where there is the potential that these abuses could have taken place, we investigate them," said Navy Lt. Cmdr. Nick Balice.

Joe Navarro, a retired FBI agent who teaches interrogation techniques to the military and is familiar with interrogations at Guantanamo, said using threats during interrogations only stands to taint information gleaned from the sessions.

"The only thing that torture guarantees is pain," Navarro told AP Tuesday. "It never guarantees the truth."

Many memos refer to Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller, whose mission as head of the Guantanamo prison from October 2002 was to improve the intelligence gleaned from terror suspects. In August 2003, Miller was sent to Iraq to make recommendations on interrogation techniques to get more information out of prisoners. He was posted to Abu Ghraib in March 2004.



One FBI e-mail released by the ACLU said Miller "continued to support interrogation strategies (the FBI) not only advised against, but questioned in terms of effectiveness."

Miller left Iraq on Tuesday for a new assignment in Washington, with responsibility for Army housing and other support operations, and could not be reached for comment.

According to the memo from the Defense Intelligence chief, Vice Admiral Lowell E. Jacoby, a special forces task force in Iraq threatened defense personnel who complained about abuses. Some had their car keys confiscated and were ordered not to leave the base "even to get a haircut."

Balice refused to describe the task force, which could include Army Rangers, Delta Force, Navy SEALs and other Special Forces' soldiers working with CIA operatives.

Another June 25 memo describes how a task force officer punched a prisoner in the face "to the point he needed medical attention," failed to record the medical treatment, and confiscated photos of the injuries. The date of the incident wasn't clear as the memo - like others released by the ACLU - have been heavily redacted to remove dates and names.


An e-mail to Thomas Harrington, an FBI counterterrorism expert who led a team of investigators to Guantanamo, records "somewhat heated" conversations in which Pentagon officials admitted that harsh interrogations did not yield any information not obtained by the FBI.

Another December 2003 e-mail notes the FBI's Military Liaison and Detainee Unit, which "had a longstanding and documented position against use of some of DoDs interrogation practices," requested certain information "be documented to protect the FBI."

In the July 14 letter obtained by the AP, Harrington suggested that the Pentagon didn't act on FBI complaints about four incidents at Guantanamo, including a female interrogator grabbing a detainee's genitals and bending back his thumbs, another where most of a prisoner's head was covered with duct tape and a third where a dog was used to intimidate a detainee who later was thrown into isolation and showed signs of "extreme psychological trauma."

The Harrington letter was addressed to Maj. Gen. Donald J. Ryder, the Army's chief law enforcement officer who's investigating abuses at U.S.-run prisons in Afghanistan, Iraq and at Guantanamo. He said FBI officials complained about the pattern of abusive techniques to top Defense Department attorneys in January 2003, and it appeared that nothing was done.

The U.S. military says prisoners are treated according to the Geneva Conventions, which prohibit violence, torture and humiliating treatment. Still, at least 10 incidents of abuse have been substantiated at Guantanamo, all but one from 2003 or this year.




Many detainees at Guantanamo have been held without charge and without access to attorneys since the camp opened in January 2002. The United States has imprisoned some 550 men accused of links to Afghanistan's ousted Taliban regime or al-Qaida; only four have been charged

[Mike AI]

Honestly I do not think most Americans care. I know I don't. I think its a non-issue, and for the media to get in a huff over this it just gives the enemy more propaganda.

The stupid arguement that this will lead to worse treatment of prisoners that the Islamacists take is a joke. We already know what they will do.

What is going on is hardly abuse. It is unsavory, but no one is getting their heads cut off. War is a dirty business.

[Nickatilynx]

Don't care about them at all.

I favour the SAS method of dealing with them.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sept 30th 1988: 'SAS killed lawfully' - Gibraltar jury
The killing of three unarmed IRA suspects by British soldiers was lawful, a Gibraltar court has found.

The jury took less than seven hours to reach the 9-2 majority verdict on the shootings in March 1988 of Sean Savage, Daniel McCann, and Mairead Farrell.

The elite SAS team shot the suspects because they believed the republican dissidents were about to detonate a remote control bomb in the tiny British territory.

The UK Government has welcomed the verdict.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Almighty Colin]

I don't mind just don't get caught.

[rhymer]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Dec 7 2004, 03:29 PM
Honestly I do not think most Americans care. I know I don't. I think its a non-issue, and for the media to get in a huff over this it just gives the enemy more propaganda.

The stupid arguement that this will lead to worse treatment of prisoners that the Islamacists take is a joke. We already know what they will do.

What is going on is hardly abuse. It is unsavory, but no one is getting their heads cut off. War is a dirty business.

How would you know? It is so easy to pass judgement when you live in a gated community.

[JoesHO]

I have to agree... while I do not like the fact that we are in a stupid war, I do believe that we must fight as dirty as it takes to win.... losing is not an option ( right or wrong in the principle is irrelevent when it is time to put up the dukes, chivalry can be handled after the fight, and remember the one still standing is the one administering the chivalry LOL so that best be you !!)

[rhymer]

Originally posted by JoesHO1@Dec 7 2004, 03:44 PM
I have to agree... while I do not like the fact that we are in a stupid war, I do believe that we must fight as dirty as it takes to win.... losing is not an option ( right or wrong in the principle is irrelevent when it is time to put up the dukes, chivalry can be handled after the fight, and remember the one still standing is the one administering the chivalry LOL so that best be you !!)

You just gotta figure out how to stay standing.

[Dravyk]

Hey, I care about abuse of terrorists!!

















Especially if they're not being abused enough!!

[PornoDoggy]

Why should we care? It's only the Jews ...

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Dec 7 2004, 07:42 PM
Why should we care? It's only the Jews ...

I don't care if they are jewish, catholic, irish, canadian, ukrainian, short, fat, green or blue....

If they are the enemy in a war, we will do not worse then they do to our prisoners.

[Mike AI]

Jesus H. Christ PD I cannot beleive you had the balls to compare the Holocaust to the mild mistreatment of terrorists.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Dec 7 2004, 04:56 PM-->