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'The American flag was burned along with a life-size effigy of George Bush on Wednesday as around 1200 protestors took over central Oxford.
While the real Bush enjoyed a lavish state banquet with the Queen, his open-mouthed mannequin equivalent was decapitated before being set alight to the cheers of a large crowd. Moments earlier, the Stars and Stripes was controversially burned in the middle of Oxford.'
Originally posted by Fletch XXX@Nov 21 2003, 06:54 PM 'The American flag was burned along with a life-size effigy of George Bush on Wednesday as around 1200 protestors took over central Oxford.
While the real Bush enjoyed a lavish state banquet with the Queen, his open-mouthed mannequin equivalent was decapitated before being set alight to the cheers of a large crowd. Moments earlier, the Stars and Stripes was controversially burned in the middle of Oxford.'
I don't think so because burning your flag isn't illegal over here...
In any case that demonstration was held by this biggest bunch of hippies I ever seen... we should have shipped them to Iraq before the troops rolled in!
Originally posted by Fletch XXX@Nov 21 2003, 10:54 AM 'The American flag was burned along with a life-size effigy of George Bush on Wednesday as around 1200 protestors took over central Oxford.
While the real Bush enjoyed a lavish state banquet with the Queen, his open-mouthed mannequin equivalent was decapitated before being set alight to the cheers of a large crowd. Moments earlier, the Stars and Stripes was controversially burned in the middle of Oxford.'
Originally posted by Fletch XXX@Nov 21 2003, 07:00 PM What about burning an 18 foot statue of Bush?
Hippies or not they are at least out screaming instead of sitting back and doing nothing.
People in the stands arent on the team
They may be 'out screaming' but I'm against what they're screaming about, I fully supported the invasion of Afghanistan when that happened. I fully supported the invasion of Iraq both times. I also feel the troops returning home should drive home leveling everything on the way but then I'm a bit of an extremist.
Those people demonstrating live life looking through rose coloured glasses and don't see the real deal. Maybe it was all just for oil, I don't know but I do know that something needed to be done and done it was!
I always get a kick out of the protesters. They all look like 60's hippies complete with "stoned" rhetoric. They can never debate anything on the facts.
The demonstration was held by the Stop The War Coalition.
The leader of this "coalition" is the leader of the British Communist Party.
The co-leader is the head of the London Council of Mosques (sp?) - Muslims - in Britian.
All of the chairmen of this "coalition" are outspoken communists, Maoists, Castroists, etc. Many of them are the leaders of these "movements" in London.
This "coalition" was formed in September of 2001, just days after the WTC fell and long before any war was undertaken or even announced.
Their goal is not peace, they are not against war, they are simply against the *US* waging war on anyone - deserved or not. Their site speaks of stopping the US "racist backlash" and the "US drive to war".
You should check out a group before voicing your support for them from a simple photo.
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Originally posted by Carrie@Nov 21 2003, 09:34 AM
Ahh.
Well, like you say, at least they're out doing something.
Precisely.
While you were sleeping last night, and while I was out at the punk rock show slamming beers with my girl and friends, these folks were planning a demonstration to go outdoors and scream for what they have to say. Regardless of what they are screaming, at least they ARE doing something to voice their opinion.
Originally posted by Fletch XXX@Nov 21 2003, 12:38 PM While you were sleeping last night, and while I was out at the punk rock show slamming beers with my girl and friends, these folks were planning a demonstration to go outdoors and scream for what they have to say.
But most of em are there cause they couldn't afford the concert tix........
Carrie may in fact be right - the leaders of some of the organizations that started these demonstrations could very well be Communists, Islamic fundamentalists, and other sorts of "evilllllllll-doer" type folks. Of course, the mere fact that certain people make the allegation causes me to suspect that it is in fact false, or at best grossly distorted all out of proportion to the reality of the situation.
When you get right down to it, that some of the folks involved may not be "pure of heart" doesn't mean much. There are a lot of ordinary everyday people all across the world - including a lot of your garden variety patriotic Americans - who are worried about what Bush is doing. They aren't communists, or Maoists, or Trotskyites, or Minshoveks, or so-called Castroists (whatever the fuck that is). And, whether you believe it or not, they aren't dupes, either - at least, they are no more duped than folks who still believe their were WMD in Iraq, or that Saddam had ties to al Qaida.
I have to admit I don't care much for flag-burners; I'm old school (go in, carry your signs, throw the tear gas back at the cops, and go home) I guess, but I don't understand the whole "demonstrations as festivals" phenomena.
Quote:
I always get a kick out of the protesters. They all look like 60's hippies complete with "stoned" rhetoric. They can never debate anything on the facts.
That's a statement I can agree with whole-heartedly. Most of the anti-war folks I've talked to have a limited quantity of rhetorical statements memorized to support a position. It's what makes them very similar to the majority of folks who support the war.
Last edited by PornoDoggy at Nov 21 2003, 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by Trev@Nov 21 2003, 12:32 PM Hmmm... really.... I'll have to check my Falklands info again for that because I'm sure your wrong about that.
Sheep don't count ...
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About 10 years ago in my hometown a bunch of people got arrested, and were even on national talk shows, for burning crosses outside the homes and work places of several black people. One incident was on the other side of the street from a school, the principal was black.
I forget what they were charged with, think it was trespassing. Though today it probably would have been classified as a hate crime. Hate trespassing? Haha.
Anyway, my point is, if these guys were busted for burning crosses on other property, I'm sure you would get busted for burning a Bush statue on another property (I'm assuming you meant public.) Now, burn the statue in your yard and you might be fine, though you would have a couple pissed off neighbors, which could lead to a door knock from the coppers.
Burning flags is not "doing something for the cause", nor is causing a public disturbance that disrupts the life of others. They're interested in doing something for the cause? Tell 'em to get off their ass and do some leg work. The world doesn't change by flapping gums, it takes action.
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Nov 21 2003, 11:02 AM I see TON of intellect written on the faces
;-))
I see nothing more than a bunch of pussies that obviously
have no life and in need of a job to support their crack habits.
Boo fucking Hoo. I swear to R_n that people everywhere are
fucked in the heads.
Why spend your time trying to change something that isnt
going to change. Use your head for a moment.
Ok the country I live in is going to war, if I protest, will that
end the war? HELL NO, so why waste my time?
And, to burn another countries flag. Oh that's real intellegent.
The U.S.A has a fuckup for a president, we should just hate
ALL of Amercia.
Actually, most of the ones I know are ... but there was a Major in the bunch who was a pooh-bah in the LDS Church. He was most definitely not amused - but I think being amused is a sin for them anyway.
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Originally posted by voodooman@Nov 21 2003, 10:03 AM Why spend your time trying to change something that isnt
going to change. Use your head for a moment.
Ok the country I live in is going to war, if I protest, will that
end the war? HELL NO, so why waste my time?
And, to burn another countries flag. Oh that's real intellegent.
The U.S.A has a fuckup for a president, we should just hate
ALL of Amercia.
I thought that was the whole point of living in a place like the US, UK or Canada. You can express yourself all you want about what the govt does.
Will it change anything, maybe, maybe not. Might even be very likely that it doesn't change anything.
That doesn't mean that expressing yourself is a waste of time or something that shouldn't be done.
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Nov 21 2003, 12:44 PM That's a statement I can agree with whole-heartedly. Most of the anti-war folks I've talked to have a limited quantity of rhetorical statements memorized to support a position. It's what makes them very similar to the majority of folks who support the war.
PD,
Maybe I am missing it, but I don't see people protesting peace and holding pro-war rallies.
Other than the people supporting their families who are in service, I don't really see the same type of public display.
I agree that the bone-headed rhetoric exists on both sides, but I don't see it in a public display of civil disobedience -- at least not comparable to the ppl and pics in question in this thread.
Originally posted by FATPad@Nov 21 2003, 01:28 PM That doesn't mean that expressing yourself is a waste of time or something that shouldn't be done.
FATPad,
I agree, but I think there are more than one way of action that can claim that philosophy.
I mean, the way I look at it some ppl are just more martyr prone.... they pick fights they know they are going to lose and even seem to relish in the pain of it.
It may be a noble act, but it is not the most logical. This is the part that puzzles me the most.
On the contrary, an individual could concentrate on things that he can have an impact on and likely effect change in his community/family/finances, etc. There are plenty of things a person can do that are noble, as well as rewarding.
Look, I think that a sizeable number of people who are out there demonstrating these days are doing it for the same reason they are buying my old clothes off the 2nd-hand rack - it's the retro-hip thing to do.
I find the whole "toppling the statue" thing absurd. Anyone who regrets the fact that Saddam is gone is as absolutely braindead as those who continue to look for Communist conspiracies in the dustbunnies under their beds. The flag thing bugs me too - but not as much as it would if it were being done in the U.S.
So, overall I agree with the idea that their behaviour is boorish. Is it more boorish than thinking that sticking a flag on your truck is patriotism, or sticking "support our troops" above "buy our shit" on every freakin' business sign? I guess that's a judgement call.
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The rally, and in particular the burning of the US flag, highlighted divisions amongst the protestors. Organisers were at pains to disassociate themselves from any hint of anti-Americanism, stressing that their target was solely the current occupant of the White House.
Indeed, many were infuriated by the flag-burning incident. Leo Barasi, a second year Christ Church student said, “That really annoys me. It makes it easy for the demo to be labelled anti-American and racist”.
Which is precisely what has happened.
To paraphrase a poster in another thread on this board..
"I disagree with what the President is doing , but I stand behind him"
No!! That is not democracy!!!!
IMHO Bush jumped the gun.There were no weapons of mass destruction , and the UN if allowed to carry on would have confirmed this , thus removing his need to invade.I think he knew this.Hence why he acted , whilst he could still claim it as a reason.I am sure there is more to this than as yet is apparent.One day it will come out.
He acted in haste , and I believe history will allow him to repent at his leisure.
Regarding the protests , I think , there are protesters.....then there are just nutters. The flag burners are nutters.Most of the protesters agree.The flag burners are "professional protesters" ,next week they'll be protesting against something else.....rebels without a clue.
After watching the protestors in Miami at the FTAA meeting, you got to wonder where all these hippies come from. It looked like something out of the 60's and I think these people don't know shit about the FTAA Trade Agreement and just want to go out and protest for the fuck of protesting.
The funny thing is they were bitching about the police shooting them with rubber bullets, after they pelted cops with rocks using sling shots, and then threw buckets of paint at the cop's visors to blind them.
They're lucky all they got was rubber bullets.
Last edited by KRL at Nov 21 2003, 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Nov 21 2003, 12:44 PM Carrie may in fact be right - the leaders of some of the organizations that started these demonstrations could very well be Communists, Islamic fundamentalists, and other sorts of "evilllllllll-doer" type folks. Of course, the mere fact that certain people make the allegation causes me to suspect that it is in fact false, or at best grossly distorted all out of proportion to the reality of the situation.
Originally posted by KRL@Nov 21 2003, 03:56 PM It looked like something out of the 60's and I think these people don't know shit about the FTAA Trade Agreement and just want to go out and protest for the fuck of protesting.
It was probably a POD group - protestors on demand. A big group of folks who will show up and protest whatever you want them to - for a fee.
That way you can stand up there with the megaphone starting the chants and doing interviews with local reporters, and your "masses" can cause all kinds of attention for you.
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11-21-2003
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