'The American flag was burned along with a life-size effigy of George Bush on Wednesday as around 1200 protestors took over central Oxford.

While the real Bush enjoyed a lavish state banquet with the Queen, his open-mouthed mannequin equivalent was decapitated before being set alight to the cheers of a large crowd. Moments earlier, the Stars and Stripes was controversially burned in the middle of Oxford.'

http://cherwell.ospl.org/viewarticle.php?I...0Lane&Head=News

http://cherwell.ospl.org/images/MT2003-Issue7-1-1.jpg

Could we do this in Times Square?



Last edited by Fletch XXX at Nov 21 2003, 08:55 AM

why? Just because you vote the wrong way?
;-)))

I don't think so because burning your flag isn't illegal over here...



In any case that demonstration was held by this biggest bunch of hippies I ever seen... we should have shipped them to Iraq before the troops rolled in!

What about burning an 18 foot statue of Bush?

Hippies or not they are at least out screaming instead of sitting back and doing nothing.

People in the stands arent on the team :awinky:

See? The left's primary motivation is hatred. Or envy. It's debatable.

I see TON of intellect written on the faces
;-))

http://cherwell.ospl.org/images/MT2003-Issue7-1-1.jpg

See? The left's primary motivation is hatred. Or envy. It's debatable.[/b][/quote]
They hate us because our soldiers kill and gangrape kids.

http://www.themilitant.com/2001/6528/652860.html

I wonder if any are pinning down Iraqi girls and having their American way with them?

Answer due to probability, most likely.

Animals act like animals whether in the jungle or the desert.

They may be 'out screaming' but I'm against what they're screaming about, I fully supported the invasion of Afghanistan when that happened. I fully supported the invasion of Iraq both times. I also feel the troops returning home should drive home leveling everything on the way but then I'm a bit of an extremist.

Those people demonstrating live life looking through rose coloured glasses and don't see the real deal. Maybe it was all just for oil, I don't know but I do know that something needed to be done and done it was!

They hate us because our soldiers kill and gangrape kids.

http://www.themilitant.com/2001/6528/652860.html

I wonder if any are pinning down Iraqi girls and having their American way with them?

Answer due to probability, most likely.

Animals act like animals whether in the jungle or the desert.[/b][/quote]
All I can say is: UTTER SHITE!

this quote made me laugh, from a protestor:

"If George Bush was really a Christian, he'd love Saddam Hussein..."

What, are you debating facts?

Soldiers have been raping children in Okinawa for what 50 years, now you say they haven't?

I believe one of the youngest was 6 or so. Multiple men, multiple gang rapes against children. This is nothing new. And it happens in EVERY WAR.

HAHAHAHA

I always get a kick out of the protesters. They all look like 60's hippies complete with "stoned" rhetoric. They can never debate anything on the facts.

environmentalists, anti-globalization nuts, PETA, etc.... :blink:

The demonstration was held by the Stop The War Coalition.
The leader of this "coalition" is the leader of the British Communist Party.
The co-leader is the head of the London Council of Mosques (sp?) - Muslims - in Britian.

All of the chairmen of this "coalition" are outspoken communists, Maoists, Castroists, etc. Many of them are the leaders of these "movements" in London.

This "coalition" was formed in September of 2001, just days after the WTC fell and long before any war was undertaken or even announced.

Their goal is not peace, they are not against war, they are simply against the *US* waging war on anyone - deserved or not. Their site speaks of stopping the US "racist backlash" and the "US drive to war".

You should check out a group before voicing your support for them from a simple photo.

I did not say I support the group, but their demonstration methods.

:moon:

we should make lifesize jesus statues and burn them in the streets too!

Pat Robertson statues would be great.

What, are you debating facts?

Soldiers have been raping children in Okinawa for what 50 years, now you say they haven't?

I believe one of the youngest was 6 or so. Multiple men, multiple gang rapes against children. This is nothing new. And it happens in EVERY WAR.

HAHAHAHA[/b][/quote]
No! I don't recall mentioning Okinawa. I just feel that alot of what is said is bullshit.

Hmmm... really.... I'll have to check my Falklands info again for that because I'm sure your wrong about that.

I did not say I support the group, but their demonstration methods.

:moon:[/b][/quote]
Ahh.
Well, like you say, at least they're out doing something.

I've probably thrown this URL at you before but just in case, you'll probably like it:
http://www.devvy.com/devvyindex.html

And here's a list of all of her latest articles:
http://www.devvy.com/cgi-bin/devvybanner/banner.cgi

Was Lynch not raped in this one?

Regardless of side, rape happens during every war.

Here's a great one.

Decorated soldier boy rapes and kills fellow soldier.

Who does he blame? The Gulf War.

!!!

http://inlandantiempire.org/archive/000216.php



Last edited by Fletch XXX at Nov 21 2003, 09:35 AM

Precisely.

While you were sleeping last night, and while I was out at the punk rock show slamming beers with my girl and friends, these folks were planning a demonstration to go outdoors and scream for what they have to say. Regardless of what they are screaming, at least they ARE doing something to voice their opinion.

I can dig on that.

But most of em are there cause they couldn't afford the concert tix........






:yowsa:

Your arguing that rape happens in war, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn’t rape happen regardless of war?

Carrie may in fact be right - the leaders of some of the organizations that started these demonstrations could very well be Communists, Islamic fundamentalists, and other sorts of "evilllllllll-doer" type folks. Of course, the mere fact that certain people make the allegation causes me to suspect that it is in fact false, or at best grossly distorted all out of proportion to the reality of the situation.

When you get right down to it, that some of the folks involved may not be "pure of heart" doesn't mean much. There are a lot of ordinary everyday people all across the world - including a lot of your garden variety patriotic Americans - who are worried about what Bush is doing. They aren't communists, or Maoists, or Trotskyites, or Minshoveks, or so-called Castroists (whatever the fuck that is). And, whether you believe it or not, they aren't dupes, either - at least, they are no more duped than folks who still believe their were WMD in Iraq, or that Saddam had ties to al Qaida.

I have to admit I don't care much for flag-burners; I'm old school (go in, carry your signs, throw the tear gas back at the cops, and go home) I guess, but I don't understand the whole "demonstrations as festivals" phenomena.

That's a statement I can agree with whole-heartedly. Most of the anti-war folks I've talked to have a limited quantity of rhetorical statements memorized to support a position. It's what makes them very similar to the majority of folks who support the war.



Last edited by PornoDoggy at Nov 21 2003, 12:46 PM

Sheep don't count ...

To paraphrase the Smashing Pumpkins

Despite all your rage you're still just a rat in a cage

Hey!

I resemble that remark :blink:

:D

About 10 years ago in my hometown a bunch of people got arrested, and were even on national talk shows, for burning crosses outside the homes and work places of several black people. One incident was on the other side of the street from a school, the principal was black.

I forget what they were charged with, think it was trespassing. Though today it probably would have been classified as a hate crime. Hate trespassing? Haha.

Anyway, my point is, if these guys were busted for burning crosses on other property, I'm sure you would get busted for burning a Bush statue on another property (I'm assuming you meant public.) Now, burn the statue in your yard and you might be fine, though you would have a couple pissed off neighbors, which could lead to a door knock from the coppers.

Burning flags is not "doing something for the cause", nor is causing a public disturbance that disrupts the life of others. They're interested in doing something for the cause? Tell 'em to get off their ass and do some leg work. The world doesn't change by flapping gums, it takes action.

Sheep don't count ...[/b][/quote]
Not using Welsh laws anyway :D

Not using Welsh laws anyway :D[/b][/quote]
I tried to lighten up a very boring intel briefing I was giving to some officers shortly after the Fauklands war, and attempted a joke about how Reagan didn't offer Maggie the assistance of the U.S. Marines for fear of a backlash from the American animal rights voters ... the Navy and Air Force guys thought it was funny, but a couple of the Marines were, um, less than amused.

I tried to lighten up a very boring intel briefing I was giving to some officers shortly after the Fauklands war, and attempted a joke about how Reagan didn't offer Maggie the assistance of the U.S. Marines for fear of a backlash from the American animal rights voters ... the Navy and Air Force guys thought it was funny, but a couple of the Marines were, um, less than amused.[/b][/quote]
Hahahaha

Marines arn't known for their sense of humour :D

Hahahaha

Marines arn't known for their sense of humour :D[/b][/quote]
YES WE FUCKING ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HEH HEH

spaz

I see nothing more than a bunch of pussies that obviously
have no life and in need of a job to support their crack habits.

Boo fucking Hoo. I swear to R_n that people everywhere are
fucked in the heads.
Why spend your time trying to change something that isnt
going to change. Use your head for a moment.
Ok the country I live in is going to war, if I protest, will that
end the war? HELL NO, so why waste my time?

And, to burn another countries flag. Oh that's real intellegent.
The U.S.A has a fuckup for a president, we should just hate
ALL of Amercia.

Get a CLUE!!!

:headwall:

Actually, most of the ones I know are ... but there was a Major in the bunch who was a pooh-bah in the LDS Church. He was most definitely not amused - but I think being amused is a sin for them anyway.

YES WE FUCKING ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HEH HEH

spaz[/b][/quote]
okay, okay I believe you :D

but to prove it tell a joke that doesn't include

a Priest, a Rabbi, a hooker, a member of the opposite sex, a member of the same sex, an ethnic minority or majority or any armed forces
:P

I see nothing more than a bunch of pussies that obviously
have no life and in need of a job to support their crack habits.

Boo fucking Hoo. I swear to R_n that people everywhere are
fucked in the heads.
Why spend your time trying to change something that isnt
going to change. Use your head for a moment.
Ok the country I live in is going to war, if I protest, will that
end the war? HELL NO, so why waste my time?

And, to burn another countries flag. Oh that's real intellegent.
The U.S.A has a fuckup for a president, we should just hate
ALL of Amercia.

Get a CLUE!!!

:headwall:[/b][/quote]
You are of course right. What kind of fucking losers would go out and actually express how they feel. That kinda shit doesn't happen in civilized places - like, maybe, North Korea.

And you're right about hating a country for the actions of its leaders, too - they should have taken appropriate action. You know, had their legistative body spend time on IMPORTANT things ... like, maybe, change the names of foods served in the cafeteria.

You are of course right. What kind of fucking losers would go out and actually express how they feel. That kinda shit doesn't happen in civilized places - like, maybe, North Korea.

And you're right about hating a country for the actions of its leaders, too - they should have taken appropriate action. You know, had their legistative body spend time on IMPORTANT things ... like, maybe, change the names of foods served in the cafeteria.[/b][/quote]
:)

I thought that was the whole point of living in a place like the US, UK or Canada. You can express yourself all you want about what the govt does.

Will it change anything, maybe, maybe not. Might even be very likely that it doesn't change anything.

That doesn't mean that expressing yourself is a waste of time or something that shouldn't be done.

PD,

Maybe I am missing it, but I don't see people protesting peace and holding pro-war rallies.

Other than the people supporting their families who are in service, I don't really see the same type of public display.

I agree that the bone-headed rhetoric exists on both sides, but I don't see it in a public display of civil disobedience -- at least not comparable to the ppl and pics in question in this thread.

You are of course right. What kind of fucking losers would go out and actually express how they feel. That kinda shit doesn't happen in civilized places - like, maybe, North Korea.

And you're right about hating a country for the actions of its leaders, too - they should have taken appropriate action. You know, had their legistative body spend time on IMPORTANT things ... like, maybe, change the names of foods served in the cafeteria.[/b][/quote]
You took what I said totally out of context.
But not surprised. :)

I didn't mean you cannot express yourself, or
give your opinion.
Just seems childish I guess to me to protest.

Whatever, burn our flags, hate us, I really
don't give a damn.

I think the flag burning pisses me off more than anything.

FATPad,

I agree, but I think there are more than one way of action that can claim that philosophy.

I mean, the way I look at it some ppl are just more martyr prone.... they pick fights they know they are going to lose and even seem to relish in the pain of it.

It may be a noble act, but it is not the most logical. This is the part that puzzles me the most.

On the contrary, an individual could concentrate on things that he can have an impact on and likely effect change in his community/family/finances, etc. There are plenty of things a person can do that are noble, as well as rewarding.

Look, I think that a sizeable number of people who are out there demonstrating these days are doing it for the same reason they are buying my old clothes off the 2nd-hand rack - it's the retro-hip thing to do.

I find the whole "toppling the statue" thing absurd. Anyone who regrets the fact that Saddam is gone is as absolutely braindead as those who continue to look for Communist conspiracies in the dustbunnies under their beds. The flag thing bugs me too - but not as much as it would if it were being done in the U.S.

So, overall I agree with the idea that their behaviour is boorish. Is it more boorish than thinking that sticking a flag on your truck is patriotism, or sticking "support our troops" above "buy our shit" on every freakin' business sign? I guess that's a judgement call.

PD, I guess Oprano is unpatriotic...
we take Euros, Brittish Pounds, gold bars, yens...
;-)))

Which is precisely what has happened.

To paraphrase a poster in another thread on this board..

"I disagree with what the President is doing , but I stand behind him"

No!! That is not democracy!!!!

IMHO Bush jumped the gun.There were no weapons of mass destruction , and the UN if allowed to carry on would have confirmed this , thus removing his need to invade.I think he knew this.Hence why he acted , whilst he could still claim it as a reason.I am sure there is more to this than as yet is apparent.One day it will come out.

He acted in haste , and I believe history will allow him to repent at his leisure.

Regarding the protests , I think , there are protesters.....then there are just nutters. The flag burners are nutters.Most of the protesters agree.The flag burners are "professional protesters" ,next week they'll be protesting against something else.....rebels without a clue.

After watching the protestors in Miami at the FTAA meeting, you got to wonder where all these hippies come from. It looked like something out of the 60's and I think these people don't know shit about the FTAA Trade Agreement and just want to go out and protest for the fuck of protesting.

The funny thing is they were bitching about the police shooting them with rubber bullets, after they pelted cops with rocks using sling shots, and then threw buckets of paint at the cop's visors to blind them.

They're lucky all they got was rubber bullets.



Last edited by KRL at Nov 21 2003, 03:57 PM

Bottom of the page.
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/about.asp

Also check any of the multitude of articles (European, I might add) about the demonstration and who was speaking for the STWC.

Then to finish it off, if you want rhetoric, just check the front page of the STWC site.

It was probably a POD group - protestors on demand. A big group of folks who will show up and protest whatever you want them to - for a fee.
That way you can stand up there with the megaphone starting the chants and doing interviews with local reporters, and your "masses" can cause all kinds of attention for you.

Unfortunately "being a moron" is a world wide epidemic/trend/entertainment...

I look forward to when people have to make sense to get their opinion out - might get people to start THINKING instead of drooling infront of the TV.