Naked Rhino VS NATS

[gonzo]

I hear a rumor that there is going to be a big announcement concerning this lawsuit.

Do you think NATS made libelous accusations or do you think Naked Rhino was stealing from the affiliates?


ANSWER IS COMING SOON!!!

[helix]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I hear a rumor that there is going to be a big announcement concerning this lawsuit.

Do you think NATS made libelous accusations or do you think Naked Rhino was stealing from the affiliates?


ANSWER IS COMING SOON!!!

I thought that was already finished......give us the dirt!

[Jace]

I think we know that answer considering Jason Tucker is no longer listed as part of No Rivals Media anymore

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Jace

I think we know that answer considering Jason Tucker is no longer listed as part of No Rivals Media anymore

lol that doesnt mean anything

[Jace]

Originally Posted by Forest

lol that doesnt mean anything

oh yeah it does

in fact falconfoto.com was redirecting to http://www.norivals.com/ since he joined up with them, and now all the sudden it is back to the regular homepage

one more thing, not only is it jason tucker that is removed from these pages, but his wife AND lawyers were all up there too, and they are now gone

http://norivalsmedia.com/no-rivals-about-us.htm

http://norivalsmedia.com/no-rivals-contacts-main.htm

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Jace

oh yeah it does

in fact falconfoto.com was redirecting to http://www.norivals.com/ since he joined up with them, and now all the sudden it is back to the regular homepage

one more thing, not only is it jason tucker that is removed from these pages, but his wife AND lawyers were all up there too, and they are now gone

http://norivalsmedia.com/no-rivals-about-us.htm

http://norivalsmedia.com/no-rivals-contacts-main.htm

so what your trying to say (im only on my first cup of coffee) is because his name doesnt appear anywhere that means he has nothing to do with them anymore?

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Jace

I think we know that answer considering Jason Tucker is no longer listed as part of No Rivals Media anymore

Hmmm, interesting. I wonder if all those affiliates will finally get paid?

[gonzo]

I hear Chad is so very sad.

[raymor]

I've talked to both of them at length. I didn't go into much detail about this issue with the NATS
guys, but I have gotten to know them. In my opinion, Naked Rhino probably didn't cheat
any affiliates. In my opinion, NATS was trying to do the right thing but we all make mistakes
sometimes and they made the same mistake that I've made - publicly posting something
that shouldn't have been posted - at least not yet. I can understand that 100% because
in the past I've posted things about NATS that I shouldn't have posted. That's just my guess
or prediction. I don't know any facts that aren't public and am speaking only from the impression
I have about the people involved. Both seemed to be reasonably honest people. Things just
became public too soon, before anyone really knew 100% for sure what all was going.
I don't do business with scammers, liars, or cheaters. I still do business with Naked Rhino,
who uses Strongbox, and NATS, whose product I recommend and who recommends Strongbox.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by raymor

I've talked to both of them at length. I didn't go into much detail about this issue with the NATS
guys, but I have gotten to know them. In my opinion, Naked Rhino probably didn't cheat
any affiliates. In my opinion, NATS was trying to do the right thing but we all make mistakes
sometimes and they made the same mistake that I've made - publicly posting something
that shouldn't have been posted - at least not yet. I can understand that 100% because
in the past I've posted things about NATS that I shouldn't have posted. That's just my guess
or prediction. I don't know any facts that aren't public and am speaking only from the impression
I have about the people involved. Both seemed to be reasonably honest people. Things just
became public too soon, before anyone really knew 100% for sure what all was going.
I don't do business with scammers, liars, or cheaters. I still do business with Naked Rhino,
who uses Strongbox, and NATS, whose product I recommend and who recommends Strongbox.

Ive said from the begining I like both parties involved. Know them both on a personal level. Ive recommended NATS to numerous people and I have sent traffic to Naked Rhino as well as spoken with Chris and Brandi on many occassions.

And again as Ive stated Im just curious how this will end up. But I hear the wait is almost over. So all the cards will be on the table and everyone can make a judgement for themselves.

Totally unrelated but akin to your comment... there is a major wind of change starting to blow. Adult has become a BIG revuenue stream for many companies that provide services. And a lot of their competitors as well as upstarts are licking their chops for a piece of that pie.

Take for instance the lastest revision of Visa regs. We all know this time last year I pinned a message telling you that a 3rd party processor would be noncompliant and stop processing US Visa transactions.

And look how that ended up.

Now the requirements have become even more stringent and the steps that it takes to secure information for those processing VISA has become more expensive and time consuming.

Be careful who you trust to handle your money.

This industry steps closer to becoming regulated by the Feds every year.

The first CAN SPAM conviction was made this year.
The first 2257 violation was prosecuted this year.

Whats next?

My guess is the FTC and Feds will begin to persue those using spyware and trojans to steal money , time and resources by hijacking your computer.

Its in our best interest to start doing something about it now.

The best way is to start working with those that want to do business with us know that have credibility with the public and Feds.

Youll notice a new button at the top of Oprano.

The wind of change starts to blow next week in LA.

[Jace]

http://raleighfilmstudios.com/contacts.htm

interesting....

[Jace]

http://raleighfilmstudios.com/contacts.htm

scroll to the very bottom

We would like to give special thanks to our dear friend Jace whose tireless efforts and comprehensive quaility checks, help keep our company on top of it's game.

[RawAlex]

Gonzo, as much as the porn business tends to be a bit of a "bros club", my feeling is that at some point the industry will turn on itself and the lawyers will come out bigtime. There is way to many rogue affiliates out there.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Toby

Hmmm, interesting. I wonder if all those affiliates will finally get paid?

Does someone have a list of who wasn't paid or were you one of them? When I hear people say things like " all those affiliates" is that a matter of fact or just board perception.

[will76]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Whats next?

My guess is the FTC and Feds will begin to persue those using spyware and trojans to steal money , time and resources by hijacking your computer.
.

Good post, and I can only hope that the part above does indeed happen and they go after the people who profited off of "then stolen goods" as well.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by will76

Good post, and I can only hope that the part above does indeed happen and they go after the people who profited off of "then stolen goods" as well.

Its about time you made it over here ...

[Toby]

Originally Posted by will76

Does someone have a list of who wasn't paid or were you one of them? When I hear people say things like " all those affiliates" is that a matter of fact or just board perception.

Fortunately for me I was no longer promoting XclusiveCash when all this came down, so I wasn't owed any money.

I'm not aware of a list, but to my knowledge no payments have been made to any XclusiveCash affiliates since the dispute with NATS occurred.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Toby

Fortunately for me I was no longer promoting XclusiveCash when all this came down, so I wasn't owed any money.

I'm not aware of a list, but to my knowledge no payments have been made to any XclusiveCash affiliates since the dispute with NATS occurred.

so you know nothing, weren't involved in any kind of way but make statements like ... " Hmmm, interesting. I wonder if all those affiliates will finally get paid? "

[will76]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Its about time you made it over here ...

I spent too much time on GFY but that was where all the bad people posted so it was good place to "chat" with them. Since I have been put into forced retirement in that respect now I can spend more time on quality boards

[Toby]

Originally Posted by will76

so you know nothing, weren't involved in any kind of way but make statements like ... " Hmmm, interesting. I wonder if all those affiliates will finally get paid? "

I don't see your logic. Why do I have to be personally owed money in order to comment? Facts are facts regardless. Many XclusiveCash affiliates are still owed money.

[Robert]

Good to see you here, Will76

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by will76

I spent too much time on GFY but that was where all the bad people posted so it was good place to "chat" with them. Since I have been put into forced retirement in that respect now I can spend more time on quality boards

Youll find a lot of people here to be honest and hard working.

The conversation can get very spirited but I believe that most people on here are pretty decent.

Spin, Hype and indignantcy doesnt thrive here nor do the reborn thieves making their second run at adult because they couldnt compete in mainstream without an angle or cheat.

But then again...those reborn programs are all fueled by prechecked cross sales anyhow.

Welcome nonetheless. I cant promise you that I will agree with you 100% of the time but Im certainly interested in hearing what you have to say as I am with everyone else that stops by.

Dont mind the ones that call us newbs with big mouths.

I dont.

[Jace]

Originally Posted by will76

Does someone have a list of who wasn't paid or were you one of them? When I hear people say things like " all those affiliates" is that a matter of fact or just board perception.

I personally know of at least 10 people that promoted them that are still owed money...one is owed upwards of $10k at this point

[Sexyteaser]

I posted what I know so far here: http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=89612

This complaint is very different than the other one and I do believe it should be of interest to everyone in the industry - This is front page news!

[pam]

Will, go over to MP and ask how many there weren't paid and many of those who weren't paid will speak up as they have in the past.

[will76]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I hear a rumor that there is going to be a big announcement concerning this lawsuit.

Do you think NATS made libelous accusations or do you think Naked Rhino was stealing from the affiliates?


ANSWER IS COMING SOON!!!

Thats the one good thing about court cases (one of the few good things )is that everyone gets the facts. You can read the judgement and all of the circumstances involved with the case and in most instances there is a clear cut winner and loser (or guilty not guilty party).

I didn't get involved with the board drama when this broke a couple years back. I knew nothing about either party involved. I read back over the orginal posts that John made and it was par for the course of the typical John we have seen posting a lot over the last 6 months.

John seems to fly off the handle and make lots of emotional posts without thinking things through.

I think the whole NR / Nats situation caused a lot of existing and potential nats clients to realize exactly how much control the software owner has over your business. He could destroy your business if he wanted, pulling someone's license and hinting that they were shaving then locking them out of the affiliate stats area, making them spend a tremdious amount of time, money, and resources to move off of your system, in turn losing all of your affiliates over it.... well I would hope the post he made wasn't just purely emotional. I don't know if John realizes how much power has over people and their livelyhood or maybe he does and that is why he is the way he is.

One thing I woud like to point out... If someone was guilty of shaving, I don't think very many of them would fight for years and spend (i am assuming) 10K's of thousands of dollars in attorney's fees. If someone is shaddy or a scammer, 99 out of 100 times they get busted they go away, make a new name and try to come back up as someone else and hope no one will notice. So on that point alone I think it says a lot what NR is doing and has done. That vs the way John has handled things in the last 6 months or so and how cocky and arrogant he is, my money is that NR wasn't in the wrong and John fucked up and his ego and arrogance got the best of him and he destroyed another company because of it. (but those are just my opinions.) We will find out soon enough.

[will76]

Originally Posted by pam

Will, go over to MP and ask how many there weren't paid and many of those who weren't paid will speak up as they have in the past.

I've looked around actually and it seems like the same 2 or 3 people screaming. I am assuming they have 100's of affiliates.

I know how these situations go from promoting clickcash for so long, a couple pissed off people will scream "scam" and then others like Toby in this thread will say " wow they scammed lots of people" and the more people see that and think it is fact etc. etc...

It doesn't make sense for NR to spend tons of money to clear their name and then not pay some of their affiliates how much money? I bet a lot lot less then what they are paying in attorney fees.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Jace

I personally know of at least 10 people that promoted them that are still owed money...one is owed upwards of $10k at this point

names ?

[will76]

Originally Posted by Toby

I don't see your logic. Why do I have to be personally owed money in order to comment? Facts are facts regardless. Many XclusiveCash affiliates are still owed money.

you don't see my logic? all I am asking is if you post something as a FACT... then post their names and amounts.

You can comment all you want but you are saying a lot of poeple are owed so who are all these people ? thats all i am asking. You said no affiliates were paid to your knowledge... ok so how many do you know ?


Let's say you owned an affiliate program, and since i don't know you nor all of your affiliates I make comments that " to my knowledge you never paid any of your affiliates"... is that a fair and sensible statement to make.

How about "i know so and so and he wasn't paid"?

the way you people just pick up hearsay and regurgitate it is sickening. People might not like me but i don't go off half cocked and say shit about people. If you use spyware and i take screen shots then i call you out for it. So many people here just hear shit and then perpetuate it.

[Sexyteaser]

Originally Posted by will76

you don't see my logic? all I am asking is if you post something as a FACT... then post their names and amounts.

You can comment all you want but you are saying a lot of poeple are owed so who are all these people ? thats all i am asking. You said no affiliates were paid to your knowledge... ok so how many do you know ?

If you robbed xxxpeter to pay xxxpaul and now xxxpeter is broke and xxxpaul wants his money then who do you go after?

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

If you robbed xxxpeter to pay xxxpaul and now xxxpeter is broke and xxxpaul wants his money then who do you go after?

Im not going after peter no matter what!

[Jace]

A class action suit has been filed against Too Much Media and its owners.

NATURE OF THE ACTION
This is a proposed “hybrid” action to brought pursuant to F.R.C.P. 23(c)(4).
Specifically, NR Media, Inc. (“NRM”) seeks damages and equitable relief on behalf of itself
and on behalf all persons and entities that operate Affiliate Programs, and that suffered harm
as a result purchasing information processing services from Too Much Media, LLC
(“TMM”) based on NATS, a software program designed for, by and owned by TMM, and/or
John Albright and/or Charles Berrebbi (collectively, the “TMM Defendants”). In addition,
Plaintiffs seek relief based on the tortious conduct that the TMM Defendants specifically
directed at Plaintiffs and which resulted in the destruction of NRM’s profitable and popular
on-line Internet business and sabotaged NR LCC from its inception.

[Jace]

Originally Posted by will76

names ?

if those people want to be known, they can post on their own

I know mailman is very vocal about the money he is owed, somewhere in the $8k range last i checked

[Jace]

Originally Posted by will76

you don't see my logic? all I am asking is if you post something as a FACT... then post their names and amounts.

You can comment all you want but you are saying a lot of poeple are owed so who are all these people ? thats all i am asking. You said no affiliates were paid to your knowledge... ok so how many do you know ?


Let's say you owned an affiliate program, and since i don't know you nor all of your affiliates I make comments that " to my knowledge you never paid any of your affiliates"... is that a fair and sensible statement to make.

How about "i know so and so and he wasn't paid"?

the way you people just pick up hearsay and regurgitate it is sickening. People might not like me but i don't go off half cocked and say shit about people. If you use spyware and i take screen shots then i call you out for it. So many people here just hear shit and then perpetuate it.

you are asking one person to post another persons financial details on a public forum, I am not sure who or what you think you are, but I would think that would be pretty irresponsible of anyone to do

[Toby]

Originally Posted by will76

I've looked around actually and it seems like the same 2 or 3 people screaming. I am assuming they have 100's of affiliates.

I know how these situations go from promoting clickcash for so long, a couple pissed off people will scream "scam" and then others like Toby in this thread will say " wow they scammed lots of people" and the more people see that and think it is fact etc. etc...

It doesn't make sense for NR to spend tons of money to clear their name and then not pay some of their affiliates how much money? I bet a lot lot less then what they are paying in attorney fees.

It was a whole lot more than just 2 or 3, and I've not seen a post by any XclusiveCash affiliate saying that they've been paid.

You're coming into this conversation rather late to just be assuming I'm talking out my of ass. I assure you I'm not, and the response by others here has backed that up.

[will76]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Spin, Hype and indignantcy doesnt thrive here nor do the reborn thieves making their second run at adult because they couldnt compete in mainstream without an angle or cheat.

But then again...those reborn programs are all fueled by prechecked cross sales anyhow.

.

A couple names come to mind while reading that


thanks, if everyone agreed with me all the time what fun would that be. I learn new stuff every day, its healthy to see other people's points of view. Things i can't stand are the people with the " one liners" who tell you that you are wrong or others who make rediculas statements without any thing substantual to back it up.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Jace

you are asking one person to post another persons financial details on a public forum, I am not sure who or what you think you are, but I would think that would be pretty irresponsible of anyone to do

come on lol. please. How much someone supposidly got scammed for is ALWAYS posted. ALWAYS.

you say financial information? no one is asking how much money they have in the bank lol. No need to spin it.

How many times have you heard someone say " I was scammed, not paid, etc. etc.." and how many times is it followed by an AMOUNT$$$ every time!

BTW ibill owes me 35K in past due checks and no telling how much they kept collecting on rebills that i wasn't paid for either. wow i just release sensative financial info.

Bottom line is you say you know at least 10 people, when i ask you, you mention 1. So all of these 10 people i guess they want to keep it a secret then right, they told you they were not paid but also said that you could repeat it to any one else? that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why do they want to keep their identies secret ?

You guys go on and on about all these affiliates who weren't paid. Sorry i don't buy into board bullshit hearsay. I am trying to form an opinion on this whole deal. ALL I asked for was if what you are saying is true then back it up, if not then it makes it look like you are lieing.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Toby

It was a whole lot more than just 2 or 3, and I've not seen a post by any XclusiveCash affiliate saying that they've been paid.

You're coming into this conversation rather late to just be assuming I'm talking out my of ass. I assure you I'm not, and the response by others here has backed that up.

you people are something else. one person says it was 10, but can only name 1 publicly, another one says it was a "whole lot more than 2 or 3".

People usually make posts when they are happy and have been paid, lol. I see that all the time, everyone who gets paid runs to the board to post LOLOL. More like the other way around a handfull who haven't been paid or feel they were wronged or whatever the situation was that made them unhappy will make posts saying how they were screwed and then people who have nothing to do it pick it up and run with it.... great case in point with you.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Toby

It was a whole lot more than just 2 or 3, and I've not seen a post by any XclusiveCash affiliate saying that they've been paid.

You're coming into this conversation rather late to just be assuming I'm talking out my of ass. I assure you I'm not, and the response by others here has backed that up.

Guys why can't i get a straight answer here.

Sorry " no one got paid" or " i can't tell you who" is rediculas replies.

Toby I don't know you, i am not going to take your word for it. Which god knows what caused you to form this opinion, probably something you heard someone else saying.

Ibill fucked a lot of people, a lot of people posted saying they were fucked and how much. Why is this situation so different? No one will posted that they are owed money only that they know lots of people who are but no one will posts names. You keep saying "none of their affiliates have been paid", "its a lot more than 2 or 3". HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS ?

did you see these people post here or somewhere else? If so why can you post who it is then, it would be public knowledge, or are the same "secret people" the same ones that Jace knows, those 10 plus people who claim they havent been paid but they dont want to keep it quiet. (makese no sense).

Why can't people just give straight answers ?

[helix]

My friend has an uncle in Florida that heard of a fella in that town....I forget the name, but he had a nephew who was married to this gal Jill that had a brother that was owed like 25k or so I hear.
Hope that helps

I don't know of anybody.

[will76]

Originally Posted by helix

My friend has an uncle in Florida that heard of a fella in that town....I forget the name, but he had a nephew who was married to this gal Jill that had a brother that was owed like 25k or so I hear.
Hope that helps

I don't know of anybody.

now that is the kind of proof i was looking for. Ok now I think NR is garbage. lol j/k

[Sexyteaser]

Originally Posted by will76

come on lol. please. How much someone supposidly got scammed for is ALWAYS posted. ALWAYS.

you say financial information? no one is asking how much money they have in the bank lol. No need to spin it.

How many times have you heard someone say " I was scammed, not paid, etc. etc.." and how many times is it followed by an AMOUNT$$$ every time!

BTW ibill owes me 35K in past due checks and no telling how much they kept collecting on rebills that i wasn't paid for either. wow i just release sensative financial info.

Bottom line is you say you know at least 10 people, when i ask you, you mention 1. So all of these 10 people i guess they want to keep it a secret then right, they told you they were not paid but also said that you could repeat it to any one else? that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why do they want to keep their identies secret ?

You guys go on and on about all these affiliates who weren't paid. Sorry i don't buy into board bullshit hearsay. I am trying to form an opinion on this whole deal. ALL I asked for was if what you are saying is true then back it up, if not then it makes it look like you are lieing.

All I can say is the only person I feel ripped me off was Mark Prince - what is up with the name 2Much?

Oh and Sharky if your out there swimming with the guppy's somewhere you might owe me lunch...JK

On another note why is everyone all over Will?

This is getting too funny Gonzo and I talked about how everyone was going to start turning on eachother as the economy slowed down. Now my post about peter and paul... I have only been around here a little bit but it seems like everyone was taking a little of something from everyone else most of the time.

[Jace]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

This is getting too funny Gonzo and I talked about how everyone was going to start turning on eachother as the economy slowed down.

I don't see anyone turning on each other more than they always have

btw, isn't 2much another company? this is Too Much Media, not 2Much

[Sexyteaser]

Originally Posted by Jace

I don't see anyone turning on each other more than they always have

btw, isn't 2much another company? this is Too Much Media, not 2Much

I meant 2much / Too Much (name similarity)

[Nymph]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

I talked about how everyone was going to start turning on eachother

I just think we are having a major exposion of PMS, combined with a depleted supply of midol

[CraigT]

I tend to agree with the line of thought.

For the contrary side... here is what i heard...


I heard Naked Rhino contacted their affiliates, and since Nats had shut them out of the system, they asked the affiliates what were they owed.

Even though they were closed, they paid the affiliates based on what they were told by the affiliates out of the own pockets. I also know that a lot of these affiliates still work with Naked Rhino's new program to this day...

I also heard that a few affiliates couldn't be paid. So you have to ask yourself, why would they pay some affiliates but not all. From my experience in the billing world, their are some hard and fast rules as to why you pay affiliates, and why you don't , and the reasons are ever pretty about the affiliate. There are always two sides to every story.

I also notice it is the exact same people who bash one side...without any desire to hear the other side. This always concerns me when one side is always presented without hearing the other side.

I too have been around the block, and I too don't make posts or allegations lightly. I have not come into this argument lately, I just tend to watch a lot of the bashing that people do with getting involved.

There are some very hard accusations here on both sides. Where is the proof, and what happens when the minority speak for the majority. The one thing I think is going to happen for certain is when the information comes out, (it usually does) it won't be pretty, and will cause some to have to rethink their opinions. I am glad people take sides, I think too much apathy is certainly a bad thing. Just be careful before choosing sides.

[Sexyteaser]

Originally Posted by Nymph

I just think we are having a major exposion of PMS, combined with a depleted supply of midol

OMG Nymph you are so right on!

[Jace]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

I meant 2much / Too Much (name similarity)

yeah, I saw you put 2Much Media/NATS, and it confused me, and was just wondering if you were confused

it is too much media/nats haha

[Sexyteaser]

Originally Posted by CraigT

I tend to agree with the line of thought.

For the contrary side... here is what i heard...


I heard Naked Rhino contacted their affiliates, and since Nats had shut them out of the system, they asked the affiliates what were they owed.

I wish I had a Naked Rhino right now I would load it the truck and drop it off on someone's front yard.... OMG I just did not give that idea away.

[Sexyteaser]

Originally Posted by Jace

yeah, I saw you put 2Much Media/NATS, and it confused me, and was just wondering if you were confused

it is too much media/nats haha

Jace - I am so confused right now I feel like my parents left me on the Merry-go-Round and no one is coming back to get me... Don't you rescue us woman with the knight and sword of yours.