The Collapse of the Affiliate Marketing Model

[Sexyteaser]

The Commission Junction and the 2Much Media/NATS Complaints seem to be on track to collapsing the Affiliate Marketing Model which has become like a giant pyramid scheme. With several of the largest Affiliate Programs claiming double digit losses in revenue and/or market share the reasons are multifaceted and so many areas need to be addressed.

The re-filing of the 2Much Media (NATS) case may broaden the scope of the hit on the adult industry.

A copy of the Commission Junction Complaint can be found here http://www.cjclassaction.com/Carrier_Complaint_Final.pdf

A copy of the new 2 Much Media Complaint will be provided as soon as it becomes available.

[RawAlex]

I had a long post and removed it.

Safe to say the sales are going somewhere. Just like tube sites and torrent sites, programs need to wise up and figure out who is on their side and who isn't on their side.

Hint: standardized software, standardized link codes, and easily noted tracking are all super easy targets for third parties.

hint for programs: intentional leaks on your tours, deal with scumbag toolbar installers, or buying traffic from known scumware companies is a way to poison your affiliate marketing program and leave yourself open for legal action. If this case gains any traction, you guys better hope like fuck that nobody decides to come after your asses. You could all end up really, really poor at the end of all of this.

[Sexyteaser]

Let me just clarify that this is my personal opinion after reading and speaking with several people.

Mr. John Albright has personally contacted me to let me know he "has not threatened anyone." but I was told something different from someone who claims differently and a reliable source.

I guess I have just pissed off a whole slew of people this week but when it all comes down to it they say the "truth" will set you free.

Now only time will tell if these two legal battles will collapse and forever change the affiliate marketing model and just maybe I won't feel like using my voice to express my opinion was a death sentence. I would rather be tied to the solution than the problem. So, when you start seeing the replacement of Affiliate with Value Added Reseller or some other name to add distinction and distance from this we will know.

[gonzo]

I missed the threaten part?
Where was that brought up?

Oh I see an ICQ flashing from John now.

[Sexyteaser]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I missed the threaten part?
Where was that brought up?

Oh I see an ICQ flashing from John now.

I made a comment about it here http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/showt...highlight=nats

[Toby]

This business has always been a moving target. The only constant is that things are in a constant state of change.

I would agree that the current affiliate program model is ripe for some major shifts in the way programs do business. More streamlined, more efficient, more about quality traffic and less about traffic volume.

We've already seen pay per sale programs on free and trial joins all but vanish. There's been an ongoing consolidation of programs. DeeCash's recent acquisitions as a prime example. Along with that there have also been a number of programs quietly acquiring major traffic sources. Thumbzilla for example is now owned by Twistys.

I don't believe we will see the current affiliate model completely vanish, but it will certainly continue to evolve just as it has for the last 10+ years.

As for the litigation noted above, the only real effect will be to hasten along what would have occured in time anyway.

[Sexyteaser]

I just checked Pacer for some cases tonight and guess what I found....

3:06-cv-03988-JAP-JJH NR MEDIA, INC. et al v. TOO MUCH MEDIA, INC. et al
Joel A. Pisano, presiding
John J. Hughes, referral
Date filed: 08/22/2006
Date of last filing: 03/18/2008

Something new was filed today before the deadline...
I will get a copy and link for you all but its late so tomorrow.

[Sexyteaser]

Here is a snipit taken from the complaint...

1. Pursuant to Rule 23 of the F.R.C.P., to assert a class action against
Defendants for the following causes:
a. Violations of New Jersey’s Consumer Fraud Act, N.J.S.A. 56:8 et
seq.;
b. Negligent Misrepresentation;
c. Misappropriation and Conversion of Proprietary Confidential
Information;
d. Breach of Contract;
e. Intentional Interference with Existing Affiliate Contracts and
Memberships;
f. Intentional Interference with Prospective Business and Economic
Advantage;
g. Breach of Fiduciary Duty;
h. Violation of New Jersey’s Identify Theft Protection Act, N.J.S.A.
56:8-161 et seq.;
i. Indemnity and Contribution; and

j. Declaratory relief.

[pam]

Cliff notes -- who is bringing suit against NATS? Minusonebit?

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by pam

Cliff notes -- who is bringing suit against NATS? Minusonebit?

Naked Rhino

Recent threads....

http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/showt...ht=naked+rhino

[Sexyteaser]

h. Violation of New Jersey’s Identify Theft Protection Act, N.J.S.A.
56:8-161 et seq.;

I guess I should preface this with innocent until proven guilty but....

This point really concerned me. I believe it is $10,000 per violation in New Jersey. Does anyone have any idea how many consumer's processed their information through NATS. If 2 Much Media actually was aware of a security leak between them and the Billing Company why didn't anyone put out a fraud security announcement to the consumers? If this is true - How long have they been sitting on this information and doing nothing?

[Paul Markham]

What people on the Adult Internet were able to forget is this is a 3 way track. The sponsor, the affiliate and the buyers. There were so many buyers with so few options everything was concentrated on getting more traffic to a site come what may.

Today the surfer has many options, quality sites, VOD, PPV, Tubes. He's now king and if you don't have what he needs all the tricks to make an affiliates life better are not going to count.

Sell to the buyer, not the guy who goes out on the street with a placard.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

What people on the Adult Internet were able to forget is this is a 3 way track. The sponsor, the affiliate and the buyers. There were so many buyers with so few options everything was concentrated on getting more traffic to a site come what may.

Today the surfer has many options, quality sites, VOD, PPV, Tubes. He's now king and if you don't have what he needs all the tricks to make an affiliates life better are not going to count.

Sell to the buyer, not the guy who goes out on the street with a placard.

The customer has ALWAYS been king. Why should anyone use trickery?
Dialers,spyware installs etc all of these things are short term revenue streams and totally 100% theft by deception.

This is the kind of shit that gives our business the reputation that we all want to avoid. Treat the comsumer like a customer, treat him like fucking GOLD and give him more than advertised you would and you will have a customer for life.

You wonder why all these get rich quick buck guys that started out in this business are gone? They treated surfers like SUCKERS not customers.

Now the money has dried up and they are back with a new grift of prechecked cross sales or zango installs or whatever the scam of the month is.

Everyone should be selling to the buyer.

However . . .if you dont want affiliiates why are you trolling for them in your signature?

Your posts usually make my head hurt.

[Jace]

just so everyone is clear, 2Much is NOT Too Much Media...it is two seperate companies

[Sexyteaser]

All Clear Here!

[Sexyteaser]

Originally Posted by gonzo

The customer has ALWAYS been king. Why should anyone use trickery?
Dialers,spyware installs etc all of these things are short term revenue streams and totally 100% theft by deception.

This is the kind of shit that gives our business the reputation that we all want to avoid. Treat the comsumer like a customer, treat him like fucking GOLD and give him more than advertised you would and you will have a customer for life.

You wonder why all these get rich quick buck guys that started out in this business are gone? They treated surfers like SUCKERS not customers.

Now the money has dried up and they are back with a new grift of prechecked cross sales or zango installs or whatever the scam of the month is.

Everyone should be selling to the buyer.

However . . .if you dont want affiliiates why are you trolling for them in your signature?

Your posts usually make my head hurt.

Never have an unsatisifed customer. Not always possible but a great thing to strive for.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

Never have an unsatisifed customer. Not always possible but a great thing to strive for.

True, but after 15 years in retail management I must add a caveat.

When someone tries to knowingly rip you off, then they are no longer a customer, but a common thief.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

Never have an unsatisifed customer. Not always possible but a great thing to strive for.

This is true, but you're using a term that isn't often even uttered in this industry. "Customer".

Few if any talk about a "customer". Likewise you dont hear words like "customer care", "customer satisfaction", etc.

The words you hear instead are "signups", "clicks", "traffic".

The adult industry strip mines surfers. We move them thru en masse, in any way we can, filtering out the nuggets which are the ones we can manage to separate from their credit cards.

Do we talk about "value"? Never. Do we try to give them what they paid for? Rarely. We focus everything on convincing them to signup and very little on delivering quality once it's done. And once we have them, do we actively try to retain them? Yes, but not by providing good service, instead it's often the opposite. Make it a pain to cancel, maybe they'll forget to cancel month after month.

There are exceptions...most of the amateur site community would be one. I also have customers for some sites recurring since the late 90's. But I've also left a ton of money on the table over the years by refusing to do things like blind cross sells and other monkey business.

This is why paypal and amex wont touch adult, it's why visa keeps putting tighter and tighter restrictions. Yet, the strip miners keep on cooking with offshore merchant accounts, etc.

It wont stop until an adult transaction on the web requires a double auth.

[Mediaguy]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

The Commission Junction and the 2Much Media/NATS Complaints seem to be on track to collapsing the Affiliate Marketing Model which has become like a giant pyramid scheme. With several of the largest Affiliate Programs claiming double digit losses in revenue and/or market share the reasons are multifaceted and so many areas need to be addressed.

The re-filing of the 2Much Media (NATS) case may broaden the scope of the hit on the adult industry.

A copy of the Commission Junction Complaint can be found here http://www.cjclassaction.com/Carrier_Complaint_Final.pdf

A copy of the new 2 Much Media Complaint will be provided as soon as it becomes available.

Why hasn't anyone posted how moronic this post is?

The Commission Junction thing is OLD news and has nothing to do with adult and everything to do with unethical though not yet illegal practices perpetrated by a mainstream company.

It's Too Much Media, makers of NATS, and there's no relation to the older, less relevant Commission Junction case.

The first suit against TMM was libel, and was a simple-minded riposte to a terms of use violation case brought against another company by TMM.

The Affiliate Marketing Model is nothing but a pyramid scheme? HUH?

TooMuchMedia was broken into and this is somehow the end affiliate model? Is the banking industry threatened by the last hold up?

What's double-digit losses? Up to 99 bucks?

What's your source for these statistics?

TOO MUCH MEDIA isn't issuing a new complaint, the other company changed it's earlier libel suit... get off go away, get your meds straightened out you are infuriatingly misinformed, miseducated and inclined to blowing trumpets of alarm via your significant arse, lady. You've ceased being amusing and have twice now gone against reputable people who happen to be known and respected... get a job or a gigolo, you can afford it... learn about what you are writing, at least, everything is NOT simple, shallow and single-sided...

[Sexyteaser]

Originally Posted by Mediaguy

Why hasn't anyone posted how moronic this post is?

The Commission Junction thing is OLD news and has nothing to do with adult and everything to do with unethical though not yet illegal practices perpetrated by a mainstream company.

It's Too Much Media, makers of NATS, and there's no relation to the older, less relevant Commission Junction case.

The first suit against TMM was libel, and was a simple-minded riposte to a terms of use violation case brought against another company by TMM.

The Affiliate Marketing Model is nothing but a pyramid scheme? HUH?

TooMuchMedia was broken into and this is somehow the end affiliate model? Is the banking industry threatened by the last hold up?

What's double-digit losses? Up to 99 bucks?

What's your source for these statistics?

TOO MUCH MEDIA isn't issuing a new complaint, the other company changed it's earlier libel suit... get off go away, get your meds straightened out you are infuriatingly misinformed, miseducated and inclined to blowing trumpets of alarm via your significant arse, lady. You've ceased being amusing and have twice now gone against reputable people who happen to be known and respected... get a job or a gigolo, you can afford it... learn about what you are writing, at least, everything is NOT simple, shallow and single-sided...

Greg, As I previously stated in another post....

The first Law Suit filed in this case with TMM and NR was completely if not totally different than this one. So, you all thinking this is the same stuff all over again it isn't. NR has the sex.com Attorney Carreon http://www.sexdotcom.info/story/peop...es-carreon.htm and the lead attorney is just as notable - Not one's to take a case without merit unless of course you all believe NR has super deep pockets and more that TMM.

Before you start completely bashing me and thinking this is the same old shit do some homework. We have two of the largest affiliate programs in court, CJ and TMM there will definitely be a lot of press on this and sides taken. Also, as I previously said the government will get involved. So, beat me up for time will tell how right I was on this one.

Although both cases may be different the fact that they both manage affiliate programs and are in court and one already a class action and the other one asking to be recognized as one is significant enough to draw a lot of attention to how affiliate marketing works and the technologies being used in the current model legal, illegal, good and bad.

[Mediaguy]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

Greg, As I previously stated in another post....

The first Law Suit filed in this case with TMM and NR was completely if not totally different than this one. So, you all thinking this is the same stuff all over again it isn't

You're wrong. Read the sources from which you copied - even the headline says "amend lawsuit".

You're not helping yourself by confusing issues and then industry-prophesizing based on skimpy knowledge and short-term exposure to the business.

Both these things happened before you were in the adult industry, or even exposed to online marketing, so you may not have the full background or history of the thing at the back of your mind.

But at least read the source before claiming you can't find both sides of the story - and find out the causes and circumstances behind the litigations.

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

is significant enough to draw a lot of attention to how affiliate marketing works and the technologies being used in the current model legal,

In Consumption Junction's case it certainly can serve to highlight unethical practices and hopeful will serve to get various wares made illegal the way spam has become illegal.

However this in no way points to the downfall or collapse of the affiliate marketing model, while in fact the CJNetworks case if won may help refurbish affiliate marketing and turn stuff like Zango into the legal equivalent of hot potatoes - certainly people who've lost money to these types will be happy.

[Sexyteaser]

You're wrong. Read the sources from which you copied - even the headline says "amend lawsuit".

It says to be exact..

SECOND AMENDED AND

SUPPLEMENTAL COMPLAINT

In Consumption Junction's case it certainly can serve to highlight unethical practices and hopeful will serve to get various wares made illegal the way spam has become illegal.

It is Commission Junction

PHP Code:

However this in no way points to the downfall or collapse of the affiliate marketing model, while in fact the CJNetworks case if won may help refurbish affiliate marketing and turn stuff like Zango into the legal equivalent of hot potatoes - certainly people who've lost money to these types will be happy. 


Greg, I bet just after the April hearing or sooner the press on this will all be saying the same thing. Give it a day or two they may just steal this headline from me.

[Sexyteaser]

Greg,

I have copies of all the documents in both these cases if you want them I can direct you to where they can be purchased and sent to you.

Our Senate and Congress are following the CJ case and the TMM addition will add fuel to the fire; especially if TMM is recognized as a class action.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

This is true, but you're using a term that isn't often even uttered in this industry. "Customer".

Few if any talk about a "customer". Likewise you dont hear words like "customer care", "customer satisfaction", etc.

The words you hear instead are "signups", "clicks", "traffic".

The adult industry strip mines surfers. We move them thru en masse, in any way we can, filtering out the nuggets which are the ones we can manage to separate from their credit cards.

Do we talk about "value"? Never. Do we try to give them what they paid for? Rarely. We focus everything on convincing them to signup and very little on delivering quality once it's done. And once we have them, do we actively try to retain them? Yes, but not by providing good service, instead it's often the opposite. Make it a pain to cancel, maybe they'll forget to cancel month after month.
.

I take serious exception to this.
At the risk of being accused of "not being in the adult industry" again, we DO have customer service, we do take care of our customers, and we do care.
Go 'head...do a search. see if there is anyone posting negative stuff about us. See if there are any "charge backs" from us.
The answer is no.

Don't lump us in with the bottom feeders.

[Mediaguy]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

Greg,

I have copies of all the documents in both these cases if you want them I can direct you to where they can be purchased and sent to you.

Our Senate and Congress are following the CJ case and the TMM addition will add fuel to the fire; especially if TMM is recognized as a class action.

Possessing the documents is fine.

Take the time to read and understand what you're holding.

[Jace]

Originally Posted by Mediaguy

Possessing the documents is fine.

Take the time to read and understand what you're holding.