Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?

[softball]

JFK started a thread at the zoo about the future of trade shows. I am wondering if they are really necessary or just a hangover...pun intended...from a previous decade?
I have been to broadcasting trade shows in the past and they have always had new cameras, new standards, new toys to play with. A peek into the future. It seems that Porn shows all have the same "seminars" and always seem to be bragging about business being done. Its a monotonous litany. "Mainstream" trade shows talk less about business being done, because it just is. Stuff gets sold. Orders for new toys get taken and so on. This business has stuffed itself and the trade shows never had the acumen to peek into the future and help forge a path or change a direction or even really prepare anyone to cope with this cataclysmic change. It seems that they (the shows) never had any vision beyond the best blow job award or titties to touch.
So where is/was the value?

[Toby]

Adult trade shows need to grow up and actually get more focused on business.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

JFK started a thread at the zoo about the future of trade shows. I am wondering if they are really necessary or just a hangover...pun intended...from a previous decade?
I have been to broadcasting trade shows in the past and they have always had new cameras, new standards, new toys to play with. A peek into the future. It seems that Porn shows all have the same "seminars" and always seem to be bragging about business being done. Its a monotonous litany. "Mainstream" trade shows talk less about business being done, because it just is. Stuff gets sold. Orders for new toys get taken and so on. This business has stuffed itself and the trade shows never had the acumen to peek into the future and help forge a path or change a direction or even really prepare anyone to cope with this cataclysmic change. It seems that they (the shows) never had any vision beyond the best blow job award or titties to touch.
So where is/was the value?

That thread is hilarious - in my opinion.
Large companies telling them to produce some ROI or they wont be there next year are ignored.

Im not sure which was more amusing... Cocaine Chris's ass kissing and glib ignorance of the business [did he really think that everyone bought he was a big baller in the unsold Presidential Suite?] or Helmys sheer arrogance and disdain for everyone in the thread - I guess he was mad no one was telling him early what kind of music they want to hear at the pool....

All these shows have a thin chance of remaining as they are. Large mainstream shows like InterOp and Comdex were wiped from the face of the earth - what makes you think either of these ass clowns can do what Interface couldnt? Hell when you have to move to a new office cuz you cant pay the rent on the old place is very telling.

[softball]

Its all about ROI. For the cost of one of these shows, I can fly to Europe, have a great holiday, hook up with some local talent, take some photo sets and videos that will earn me money, write the whole thing off and have tons of "fun". And if I want lots of boobies, Europe is full of fun clubs that you are guaranteed to get drunk AND laid.

Having said that, I did have a good time at LAJ's show and I did do some business....

[Cleo]

This last show was so small that I didn't even bothering going the last day.

The best part of the show for me was the private get together at Dave & Busters which wasn't part of the show.

It's kind of funny that I drove down to the hotel a day early so that I wouldn't have to stand in a long line to get my show pass since the entire show I never saw more then a handful of people in line.

While it was nice meeting some people in person there was nothing about the show that would have made it worth the cost if I wasn't a local that didn't have to stay in the hotel with no travel expenses. I doubt I will be going next year, if there even is one, and I stopped traveling to out of town shows a few years ago.

My personal opinion is that the internet has all but killed trade shows unless it is a product that people need to see in person and pornstars and dildos aren't a product that needs to be seen in person.

[softball]

My personal opinion is that the internet has all but killed trade shows unless it is a product that people need to see in person and pornstars and dildos aren't a product that needs to be seen in person.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Cleo

This last show was so small that I didn't even bothering going the last day.

The best part of the show for me was the private get together at Dave & Busters which wasn't part of the show.

It's kind of funny that I drove down to the hotel a day early so that I wouldn't have to stand in a long line to get my show pass since the entire show I never saw more then a handful of people in line.

While it was nice meeting some people in person there was nothing about the show that would have made it worth the cost if I wasn't a local that didn't have to stay in the hotel with no travel expenses. I doubt I will be going next year, if there even is one, and I stopped traveling to out of town shows a few years ago.

My personal opinion is that the internet has all but killed trade shows unless it is a product that people need to see in person and pornstars and dildos aren't a product that needs to be seen in person.

Finally someone calls it the way it was and you didnt even brag about how many events youve sponsored in the past.

They all want new blood but nobody wants to do what it will take to bring that back in the door especially in Florida. that show was a haven for every girl starting a site on the web to meet up and do shoots. Once they jacked the price to 3 bills that ended all of that.

I can understand why the hotel is on lockdown after I was there with JoeSho one year and this local was beating us up for drugs and ass for about an hour.

Joe wouldnt give him any booty so the guy asked him to buy him drinks instead...they locked the hotel down the very next year. Well except for the hookers that get in on the mysterious "talent" pass that you never see advertised.

[Toby]

There ARE some products that would be nice to see in person. Not products that we sell, but products that we use. Cameras, archive storage and backup systems, CMS software, etc. I'm just not sure vendors would be interested in putting up a booth or sending a rep to give a presentation. Tip of the hat to Tony404 for this idea.

[softball]

I think it is very simple. They don't have the traffic AND they don't have the content. A recipe for disaster. Plain as the nose on your face.

[RawAlex]

I have to say this... I read the first page of the thread at the zoo, and at the bottom of the 1st page was the punchline: The guy spewing the most in the thread (Shap) rarely if ever attends shows.

I can't read any further, my eyes are watering from the laughter.

[Toby]

There are a few gems in that thread, in terms of insight and/or suggestions, but for the most part they're getting no play from those that need to be paying attention.

I have to give kudos to Jay and Connor, not so much for what they had to say, but for what they chose not to say in response to Helmy.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Toby

There are a few gems in that thread, in terms of insight and/or suggestions, but for the most part they're getting no play from those that need to be paying attention.

I have to give kudos to Jay and Connor, not so much for what they had to say, but for what they chose not to say in response to Helmy.

They withheld a rocking playlist for the pool music?

[Toby]

Originally Posted by gonzo

They withheld a rocking playlist for the pool music?

Hehe, if it we're only so simple.

Jay down-played the whole situation, so most probably missed it. For those that weren't watching closely...

Early last Sept Helmy starts a drama thread on GFY, the gist of which is he's pissed about comments that Connor made about XBIZ Vegas moving their dates from July to a week prior to the already announced June dates for Cybernet Expo.

Supposedly this date change was necessary due to the heat in July in Vegas. But the poll that XBIZ itself ran only 28 out of 48 said to move it. Also, early June isn't all that much cooler than early July in Vegas.

I think this was all really just posturing on Helmy's part to move the XBIZ show ahead of Cybernet on the Calendar. Jay and Connor simply moved their dates to the end of June.

Looking at the numbers after the fact, Cybernet had better attendance than in 2008 while attendance at XBIZ Vegas was an embarrasment.

Karma is a biatch.

[softball]

Supposedly this date change was necessary due to the heat in July in Vegas.

I guess this was a surprise to all involved. Blame global warming.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by Toby

There ARE some products that would be nice to see in person. Not products that we sell, but products that we use. Cameras, archive storage and backup systems, CMS software, etc. I'm just not sure vendors would be interested in putting up a booth or sending a rep to give a presentation. Tip of the hat to Tony404 for this idea.

interesting thing here is this HAS been done a couple of times, but never once incorporated into the show itself.

TMM did it when NATS was new.

they had a seminar room away from the show floor. they had techies who could actually answer questions demoing it live right there on the big screen. it was well attended, and I have no doubt generated some of their early sales.

hell, i was in attendance and i bought it. you'd NEVER EVER get a chance to sell me like that with a booth bunny on the show floor. i dont like any sort of hard sell. but sit my in a room with a group of people and teach me something, and you get my undivided attention for an hour or so as long as your product is compelling.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I have to say this... I read the first page of the thread at the zoo, and at the bottom of the 1st page was the punchline: The guy spewing the most in the thread (Shap) rarely if ever attends shows.

I can't read any further, my eyes are watering from the laughter.

i guess the zoo is good for entertainment.

but how can you put any value in 99% of the words uttered over there when the majority of the posts are people just wanting to get their post count up and sigs viewed?

i pretty much only show up over there for the "entertainment" threads. sounds like i might actually have to read this one...ugh.

[gonzo]

I added a little editorial on this topic
http://oprano.com/blog/?p=15

[JFK]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I have to say this... I read the first page of the thread at the zoo, and at the bottom of the 1st page was the punchline: The guy spewing the most in the thread (Shap) rarely if ever attends shows.

I can't read any further, my eyes are watering from the laughter.

Alex, you do need to read further, there are some good suggestions in the following pages, we shall see if anyone will take them seriously, or was this just another excercise in futility as Sly has stated

btw Gonzo, Nice one
And the show organizers cant be too happy with those that avoid paying sponsorship dollars by hosting events in their room under the guise of breakfast and bongs

[TheEnforcer]

Great discussion going on... Haven't been to a show in a few years but when I went to the shows a few eyars ago they were productive. I agree though that the adulty biz in general, not just shows, has lagged WAY behind mainstream in terms of innovation...

[Hell Puppy]

Interesting little side show over there...some good discussion, but overall I think there's a good demonstration of how little most people understand about how trade shows really work.

The viewing angles fascinate me...

From the attendees point of view there's a pretty strong agreement that:

1) There are too many shows, they'd rather see a smaller number of larger more well attended shows than a dozen or more small-ish shows.

2) ROI and costs are now important, cheaper badges, cheaper venues, cheaper destinations are all very desirable.

3) The formats of the shows and content of seminars are "same old same old" and return little if any value unless you're a noob.

Meanwhile, the show producers we've heard from:

AVNChris -- Same thing we've heard from all of his predecessors. They claim they want the feedback, then they do same shit. He's clearly thinking Vegas/Miami rotation as usual. As long as they make money, or as long as that contract with the Diplomat lasts, nothing is changing.

Helmy -- Not surprisingly, it seems Helmy isn't exactly open to criticism. He left the thread early on.

LAJ and Connor -- These guys are the only ones who've really tried to consistently tweak their format to provide value and go after venues that are affordable to keep costs down. Their fellow show promoters clearly aren't out to do 'em any favors as evidenced by moving dates of Xbiz summer to be in front of 'em and on top of 'em. So these guys are taking the position of they'll continue to just quietly do their own thing. I respect that.

Sponsor point of view....

Surprisingly few big name sponsors chiming in....and these guys are who really dictate which shows live and die. Pretty clear the employees of these companies are desperate for the shows to continue. They insist we cant afford to let any of them die. This is silly, free market WILL correct the problem of more supply than demand every time. But I see where they're coming from since less shows means potentially less employees needed by these companies to support said shows.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I added a little editorial on this topic
http://oprano.com/blog/?p=15

Largely on the mark, but I think you missed some origins...

The shows really didn't start out as "party shows". The origins are really with two shows:

1) IA2000 is what we now know as Internext. It started out as an audiotext show. It evolved into an adult internet show partially as a natural progression of that industry. In fact, many of the original big players in the business, such as CE, have their origins in the 900 biz.

2) Adultdex. Sharpie could comment more here, but basically you put 150-200K geeks in Vegas for Comdex, they are virtually all porn consumers, so it's a natural to setup a consumer oriented porn show somewhere in town at the same time and that's what Faye did. It too evolved to the web focus and more of a B2B show as Comdex died, spanwing what we know as Cybernet Expo.

Both of these shows had focus, had a purpose for being. I attended the first web oriented version of IA2000 back in 97-98 at the Monte Carlo. That was when we really learned who was who, discovered a lot of new programs, and bought a ton of content. At that time, the show saved me weeks of research on the tools I needed to launch pay sites, etc. Epoch and ccBill were just coming into being. at this time. DMR was the big processor then...I learned enough at that show to know not to use them.

Adultdex was a chance to do consumer marketing with a captive audience.

But now, ask yourself what exactly is the purpose of many of these shows?

There isn't one other than to get everyone together to see friends, party a bit on sponsor tab and make money for the show producer. This model dies as soon as people have to watch ROI...and we're there.

[Toby]

Yeah, it's become painfully obvious as that thread has wound down that the issues that really need to be addressed won't be. Some of the minor suggestions will probably get incorporated piecemeal across several of the shows, but the thinning of the herd is going to have to happen the hard way.

There's an opportunity here, for someone willing to run a show at a deficit for a couple of years to get themselves established. Put together a show that truly does provide ROI for show sponsors, programs, vendors AND affiliates. Do it right and both AVN and XBIZ will be the ones crying the downsize blues.

[DannyCox]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

I attended the first web oriented version of IA2000 back in 97-98 at the Monte Carlo.

The first IA2000 show that included the Adult Internet was in Orlando in October of 1996. I think there were maybe 40 of us there and since the show floor was only geared toward Audiotext, we all mainly hung out in the lobby bar. That was the beginning of many of the initial large companies as real networking was being done.

By the next year, in October 1997, the webbies had half the show floor and the big parties got their start. JoeE threw a big party with strippers in the hotel ballroom, and then when it came time to pay, his credit card was refused and the hotel wouldn't take his check. Pushrod and I had to bail him out of that one

We went to all the early shows, and stopped in 2002 just because it wasn't worth the money anymore. I could get more business done on the phone than I ever could at a tradeshow. We used to have our booth at every show, but by 2002 it was so bad with more people coming to our booth to try and sell us crap than people who were actually interested in what we had to offer, that we stopped that. Complaining to AVN about the people walking around, leaving flyers on your tables, and grabbing people at your booth, just fell on deaf ears.

I've easily spent well over a quarter of a million dollars at tradeshows, from having booths, seminars and sponsorships. There was no ROI on that! With the tradeshow operators allowing basic attendees to walk the show floor, hawking their crap, it just didn't make sense to spend money on things anymore. Almost all "real" tradeshows have a policy in place where no one other than actual exhibitors/sponsors can promote on premises. By turning a blind eye, the tradeshow operators have only hurt themselves and the business.

After 2002, we were only at one other show, which was summer Internext in 2004. That was the biggest waste of my time! Farrell and I put on the Amateur Roundtable seminars, and even there, we had people trying to promote their programs.

I have all sorts of how rants, but I'll stop now

[Electra]

Well I haven't been to a show for a while. I would like to start going again..maybe just do one a year...but I also read JFK's thread and now I am totally confused as to what shows are worth the time and effort. I think I need to be lured. LOL

[RawAlex]

Hell Pussy, I still have a DMR / Web800 jacket I got at that show, freaking thing is indestructible. Too bad DMR blew up so fast (and cost most of us a ton of money).

Adultdex was exactly a consumer show. In the last couple of years, a webmaster component was added mostly because enough webmasters were in town for it. But on the retail side the show really suffered, as Comdex died off, Adultdex did as well. Effectively, the AEE show does the same thing in January, sucking up to a show full of geeks

Toby, I think the problem is that the adult industry isn't aligned to shows. There are no product cycles, there is no real promotion anymore (just raise the payouts, woohoo!). Also, the video porn people don't want to deal with online people still to this day, treating us as 9th class citizens and pretty much peeing on everything we do. Some of them think that the web people have killed the porn business completely (and they wouldn't be wrong). So we can't even get the large part of the porn world to be part of a show.

I thnk that AVN and XBIZ are both already crying. It isn't clear that there is a real replacement that would bring back ROI for online companies.

[gonzo]

[quote=DannyCox;829260
After 2002, we were only at one other show, which was summer Internext in 2004. That was the biggest waste of my time! Farrell and I put on the Amateur Roundtable seminars, and even there, we had people trying to promote their programs.
[/quote]
FWIW Danny I spent the day in that Roundtable and it was the most free flow of information that was useful that Ive ever seen at any show. Farrel did a goo job of moderating it but yes there were too many people trolling around with their own agenda.

Thank you for sponsoring it as it was one of the most enjoyable days Ive ever spent at any show. And yes I spent damn near all day in there.

I think this is a great idea to get a show started to interest new people. Combine that with a the old content shoots we used to have where you can actually allow affiliates in to shoot some original conent to poromote programs and I think you have a winning formula. This was done also and I spent an entire day of Webmaster Access in Atlanta with Cory at this shoot. Another enjoyable day.

Gives a guy a few ideas ya know . . .

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I thnk that AVN and XBIZ are both already crying. It isn't clear that there is a real replacement that would bring back ROI for online companies.

It is what it is Alex... but you also bring up another idea to make it succesful. I know everyone is looking for some ROI but lets face it... its a gahtering for people in this biz to socialize and see friends. Add some ROI into that and you got a winner.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by gonzo

It is what it is Alex... but you also bring up another idea to make it succesful. I know everyone is looking for some ROI but lets face it... its a gahtering for people in this biz to socialize and see friends. Add some ROI into that and you got a winner.

IMO, among current shows, Cybernet Expo is doing the best job of providing that balance and I do know that both Jay and Connor were paying attention to what the masses were saying in that thread at the zoo.

It's difficult to be all things to all people, and I think perhaps Cybernet tries a bit too hard to be that at times.

Did any other US/Canada shows have an increase in attendance over 2008?

[softball]

People pay to learn new things. They will show up if you can provide new tools of the trade demos. Something that will give them a competitive edge. I still say shows need to provide a glimpse into the future, not the past. When we stories and dick swinging won't provide direction and ultmately profit.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

People pay to learn new things.

As an example... I maintain the website for a paralegal trade organization. Their annual conference is in October and just a couple of weeks ago I finished updating the online registration. Over two days there are five workshop sessions, with a choice of four different workshops during each session. Attendees must specify at the time they register which one of the four workshops they will attend during each of the five sessions. Registration Fee is $650 and all it includes besides the workshops is breakfast buffet both mornings and closing party on the second evening. Hotel, lunch, dinner, etc. is all extra.

That's a bit extreme for this biz, but replace the existing seminar "panels" with an individual doing a presentation on a specific subject. That would force a prepared presentation, and be far more likely to be informative. Two or three each day, with two running at a time. Pair them up to be aimed at different segments of attendees. Yes you'll likely have to pay these people to do presentations, but just a few additional attendees per speaker due to the quality presentations would more than cover that cost.

[softball]

Who in the straight world earns out of porn and would be willing to send reps? That would be a good first step. Trade organizations like make up artists. Camera manufacturers or sellers. Software providers that need exposure.
The problem is that the biz is certainly shrinking. Not necessarily in the dollar volume, but those who provide the products and services. I think these shows missed their opportuinty years ago when it was rockin and rollin and full of wide eyed kids with money to spend.
Problem is, and I have said it before, they weren't real business people and still aren't. Pornography was just a pot of gold that took no depth to mine it. Today you have to dig for what you get. Just like real bidness and many are failing. Dead men walking.

[tony404]

Ive been to two shows webmaster access 2004 and the atl forum.I got turned off at WA sat in seminars heard bulllshit like there are no new ideas for content. If you buy a gallery spot from me, I have no idea how it would do its your problem as all the bros chuckled. And the new ceo of ibill shook my hand thanked me for my loyality and told me how rock solid they were.
I think regional get togethers will be the future, money isnt flowing as easy so getting raped on costs at a show isnt a oh well fuck it anymore.
I find I come up with ideas when I have coffee or dinner with someone. When Jace and I did get togethers at my loft with no free booze. They were business like and I actually did some business.

[MikeSouth]

when this biz got into bed with the porn valley crowd...avn buying the internet shows and all that...it was doomed I was telling people look what porn valley has done...whored out cheap product, oversaturated the market and they are now about to see a serious downturn... there is a coming shakeout.

Nobody listened and porn valley used us to delay the shakeout all the while we adopted thier model and viola

Here we are.

The chickens have come home to roost

[softball]

Originally Posted by MikeSouth

when this biz got into bed with the porn valley crowd...avn buying the internet shows and all that...it was doomed I was telling people look what porn valley has done...whored out cheap product, oversaturated the market and they are now about to see a serious downturn... there is a coming shakeout.

Nobody listened and porn valley used us to delay the shakeout all the while we adopted thier model and viola

Here we are.

The chickens have come home to roost

I have been pounding this drum since Amateurmasters and got shit on from great heights. Being a wierd little website that obviously couldn't earn a living, I was doomed. Well, he who laughs last....etc. etc.
I hate to see this because it effects me as well, but on the other hand I do kind of feel vindicated when I have watched a lot of old school high rollers crash and burn.
The whole Netpond crowd is the latest of the rip off merchants...the "nice guys"...the Bros to old school not in a gfy kind of way....to go down leaving a trail of destruction. And what is unbelievable, is the silence from old school business people. I just don't get it.
This is a major rip off and they pulled it off...smooth as silk. The long con works.

[tony404]

one of the best quotes on gfy on the subject and so true :

Originally Posted by Atticus
Only in this industry would people welcome the consolidation of choices. Nobody needs to have a "sit down" regarding the state of industry trade shows. It's a free market and if there are more shows than the market will bear, then some will die off. If all of the current shows continue to offer a decent ROI for sponsors, organizers and attendees then they will remain. If, as an attendee, you feel a show isnt worth your time, then dont go. If enough people feel likewise you'll see the show cancelled.

Combining the two biggest shows of the Summer into 1 isnt going to solve anything. Without competition it will just end up raising sponsorship, badge and hotel pricing.

If you really wanted to work together for the "benefit of the industry" how about setting up a universal advertising guideline and not accept ads from companies that utilize practices that harm the industry as a whole, ie: hidden pre check cross sales, hiding behind DMCA's, using stolen content etc.

Just saying...

[Hell Puppy]

You guys have really touched on a couple of key truths that I haven't seen in that other thread as of last time I checked it...

One, the industry is still filled with people with no real business experience....or business ethics for that matter. The other is letting porn valley "lead" us is stupid. What in the hell do they know about the web? Or running a trade show for that matter.

Meanwhile, "Web 2.0" shows and seminars around SEO, affiliates, blogs, etc are blowing past us in size. I would also argue that they are now blowing past us in innovation where we used to always lead simply because we have one of the most in demand products on the web.

Also, this business is totally cut throat. The industry rips off customers and each other. There's very little overall cooperation.

This makes doing something like providing seminars or panels with true value a tough sell. Who wants to tell the bro's your secrets only to have them replicated and exploited to the point no one can make a buck with them?

The answer is B2B and education on tools and indeed teaching those who WANT to learn how to be businessmen instead of basement warriors how to do so. Some good topics have been thrown out for workshops. I'd add business 101. Think about topics like benefits of incorporation, how to manage your taxes, how to get health insurance, how to setup a SEP-IRA, etc? Although most of those are U.S. specific..

There's opportunity for a new entity that focuses on trade shows or does them well in a related industry to step in and grab attendees and sponsors alike. Provide the ROI, protect the sponsors, etc. It would take deep pockets to start, but the industry is ripe for something like this. I'd love to see one of the shows bought out by totally new blood.

[softball]

This industry is capitalism in its purest form. There is no co opeeration. Never will be. There is no regulation. Never will be. There is no industry association to set guidelines. Never will be.
The whinging and whining has only started since people realized that this business is not recession proof and the vultures jumped in and seized the opportunities available.
Live by the sword. Die by the sword. Mostly trade shows never evolved into real trade shows like real world shows and are now paying the price.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

This industry is capitalism in its purest form. There is no co opeeration. Never will be. There is no regulation. Never will be. There is no industry association to set guidelines. Never will be.
The whinging and whining has only started since people realized that this business is not recession proof and the vultures jumped in and seized the opportunities available.
Live by the sword. Die by the sword. Mostly trade shows never evolved into real trade shows like real world shows and are now paying the price.

oh eventually there will be regulation and when it finally does come around its going to hurt. I agree with Hellpuppy like T having an accountant speak and pay him to speak so its not a big ad for his/her services. The reason most seminars suck is they are cheap paying for those.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by tony404

oh eventually there will be regulation and when it finally does come around its going to hurt. I agree with Hellpuppy like T having an accountant speak and pay him to speak so its not a big ad for his/her services. The reason most seminars suck is they are cheap paying for those.

The only area where regulation can really be applied is at the processing level. Anything else can be worked around because of how open the internet is.

I dont know that voluntary cooperation or organization will every happen.

The best possible thing that could happen is for the cost of entry to go way up.

[RawAlex]

Actually, the price of admission did go up, (the visa fees) and all that happened was the amateurs got chased out of the business and the scammers paid the fee and kept going.

Raise the price of admission, you actually make it easier for the scammers, as they may be the only game left in town.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Actually, the price of admission did go up, (the visa fees) and all that happened was the amateurs got chased out of the business and the scammers paid the fee and kept going.

Raise the price of admission, you actually make it easier for the scammers, as they may be the only game left in town.

$400 a year isn't exactly the type of bump I had in mind...

That $400 a year has been more than offset in drops in hosting fees.

[miz_wright]

For me, and the work that I do, there can be great value in a show from a networking perspective. I may get new business, but the relationships that come home with me from a show are something I won't get via ICQ - and I take a long-view approach, typically. I would really like to see things like round-robin networking dinners, or non-industry speakers (because we need people to speak who aren't focused on pimping a program or safeguarding their secrets), et cetera.

Shows are incredibly valuable to me from the perspective of the job I do, and while it's certainly true everyone needs to blow off steam sometimes, there are many opportunities to make the shows a stronger opportunity for business than they are currently.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

$400 a year isn't exactly the type of bump I had in mind...

That $400 a year has been more than offset in drops in hosting fees.

No, but it was indication enough that increased fees / costs seem to cull mostly the honest ones (who didn't make an ass load of money off the last scam) and leave the scammers to run the roost.

You know, when a company buys out about a half a dozen programs, and rather than integrating them into a great huge program, they instead keep them all seperate in little seperate companies each with it's own processing and it's own name for the cross sales, you sort of can see what is going on. Many of the "playahs" at this year's show made their money on this sort of thing in 2008 and 2009. So honest people like you and me have less reason to go to a show, because we ain't going to take the free drink and declare them as "stand up guys".

Even a $5000 fee wouldn't change anything for them, but it would take out most of the remaining amateur sites in one shot.

[LAJ]

This is a great thread. And while I do appreciate the kudos... I also appreciate the criticism of trade shows in general and am listening.

It's quite refreshing when the norm is a group of people who "get it" as opposed to the norm being people spouting off who don't.

I'm going to put this out there regarding free badges. There is no way we are going to give everyone free admittance to Cybernet Expo and it just slays me who those who don't put together trade shows or attend one every two years are out there telling us to do it.

1. Free badges bring in riff raff and unqualified attendees
2. Free badges cheapen the trade deals I have in place as well as sponsor packages. Why should Joe Schmoe get to come to the show for free when Oprano is out there actively promoting Cybernet Expo or attorney Eric Bernstein is paying for a sponsorship so that everyone can have coffee, juice or water on their way into the seminars every morning?
3. Our badges are cheap to begin with ... this year we charged $75 all inclusive four months out from the show and then ran a $99 special for the next two months after that. People bitch all the time about tube sites killing the adult pay site model and that people need to pay for their porn. Well... the same could be said about trade shows giving it away for free as well for the purpose of traffic and/or falsely inflating their numbers.
4. This ties in with #3... I'm not looking for a "aww you poor boy" here... but lets face it. Connor and I bust our asses for Cybernet Expo and we need to be able to make just a LITTLE bit of money somehow for our 6 months plus of efforts. Almost all of the sponsorship money we make goes directly into the show... meeting space, hotel expenses, beverages, and a zillion other nickel and dime things... it adds up big time.

[softball]

Originally Posted by LAJ

This is a great thread. And while I do appreciate the kudos... I also appreciate the criticism of trade shows in general and am listening.

It's quite refreshing when the norm is a group of people who "get it" as opposed to the norm being people spouting off who don't.

I'm going to put this out there regarding free badges. There is no way we are going to give everyone free admittance to Cybernet Expo and it just slays me who those who don't put together trade shows or attend one every two years are out there telling us to do it.

1. Free badges bring in riff raff and unqualified attendees
2. Free badges cheapen the trade deals I have in place as well as sponsor packages. Why should Joe Schmoe get to come to the show for free when Oprano is out there actively promoting Cybernet Expo or attorney Eric Bernstein is paying for a sponsorship so that everyone can have coffee, juice or water on their way into the seminars every morning?
3. Our badges are cheap to begin with ... this year we charged $75 all inclusive four months out from the show and then ran a $99 special for the next two months after that. People bitch all the time about tube sites killing the adult pay site model and that people need to pay for their porn. Well... the same could be said about trade shows giving it away for free as well for the purpose of traffic and/or falsely inflating their numbers.
4. This ties in with #3... I'm not looking for a "aww you poor boy" here... but lets face it. Connor and I bust our asses for Cybernet Expo and we need to be able to make just a LITTLE bit of money somehow for our 6 months plus of efforts. Almost all of the sponsorship money we make goes directly into the show... meeting space, hotel expenses, beverages, and a zillion other nickel and dime things... it adds up big time.

Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges.....lol


Seriously, though. I used to attend broadcasting trade shows all the time and I never paid for admission. It was always taken care of by folks like Sony or Ikegami that wanted me to see their latest and greatest. It also worked very well. The last show that I went to, I saw Sony's latest Betacam, and I bought it. It prolly cost them a few bucks for the admission, but the camera cost 62K. I made a ton of money out of that camera and it was a great choice after seeing it and playing with it at the show.
That, to me, should be the end result and purpose of a trade show. We all have to make some money out of our attendance.

[LAJ]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges.....lol


Seriously, though. I used to attend broadcasting trade shows all the time and I never paid for admission. It was always taken care of by folks like Sony or Ikegami that wanted me to see their latest and greatest. It also worked very well. The last show that I went to, I saw Sony's latest Betacam, and I bought it. It prolly cost them a few bucks for the admission, but the camera cost 62K. I made a ton of money out of that camera and it was a great choice after seeing it and playing with it at the show.
That, to me, should be the end result and purpose of a trade show. We all have to make some money out of our attendance.

You are talking consumer shows... BIG difference when everyone who attends is the end user vs. everyone attending having something to sell.

[softball]

Originally Posted by LAJ

You are talking consumer shows... BIG difference when everyone who attends is the end user vs. everyone attending having something to sell.

a 62 thousand dollar camera is not exactly a consumer camera. Those shows are also about pitching free lance services and any number of professional contacts are made. Those cameras and other equipment don't pay for themselves. So I respectfully disagree.

[Cleo]

Personally I think $75 for a trade show is a very good price point. Just high enough to keep out the riffraff but cheap enough that buying tickets is no big deal.

My only real complaint about InterNEXT is how expensive it has become and not only the cost of passes. The Diplomat is about the most expensive place it could be held down here. I spent almost $60 just on parking my car and don't even get me started about the price of snacks and drinks. IMO InterNext has all but killed itself with its price point.

[softball]

Originally Posted by Cleo

Personally I think $75 for a trade show is a very good price point. Just high enough to keep out the riffraff but cheap enough that buying tickets is no big deal.

My only real complaint about InterNEXT is how expensive it has become and not only the cost of passes. The Diplomat is about the most expensive place it could be held down here. I spent almost $60 just on parking my car and don't even get me started about the price of snacks and drinks. IMO InterNext has all but killed itself with its price point.

These guys actually believed porn was recession proof and we actually believed we were pimps. A lack of vision is killing InterNext. Those gold chains were ten karat plate.

[Cleo]

I didn't get the incredibly loud 2 Live Crew pool music. It wasn't just that I don't care for Hip Hop. It was so loud that my teeth were vibrating. Talking, as in trying to network, was impossible. I don't know... maybe I've just gotten old but it seems like the music should be kept down to a level that allows people to talk to each other.