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Aly asked what folks from Oprano wanted to see changed with the Internext show starting in Florida. So Ive opened this new thread so the discussion can flow and AVN and Aly can have one place to refer to.
My first question is pretty simple.
Why does it cost $200 for a pass to look at exhibits on the show floor?
I do think that there has to be a charge but when you historically look at other shows [yes Mainstream ones] the charge is minimal and the exhibitors are given a slew of passes to give away for free.
You get more bang for your buck by giving the exhibitors more... AVN benefits from the increased show floor traffic, the hotel draws more vistors...etc etc.
Theres an easy one for you Aly.
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I would add to that Lee, to say keep the panels shorter, and not let people misinform you, or plug their own stuff ( pay the panel if necassary for their time ) but do not let them promote from the lecturn. Make it an actual imformative place with plenty of dicersity on the panel, and make it timed responses and adhere to them so no babbling takes place LOL
I have been to three state of the industry speeches and like Lee said, I heard the same people say the same thing ( the sky is falling)
I have yet to see people actually try to teach you something, or provide anything usefull at a panel discussion.
Originally posted by gonzo@Dec 29 2004, 05:04 PM Aly asked what folks from Oprano wanted to see changed with the Internext show starting in Florida. So Ive opened this new thread so the discussion can flow and AVN and Aly can have one place to refer to.
My first question is pretty simple.
Why does it cost $200 for a pass to look at exhibits on the show floor?
I do think that there has to be a charge but when you historically look at other shows [yes Mainstream ones] the charge is minimal and the exhibitors are given a slew of passes to give away for free.
You get more bang for your buck by giving the exhibitors more... AVN benefits from the increased show floor traffic, the hotel draws more vistors...etc etc.
Theres an easy one for you Aly.
Thanks for starting this thread!
In the ideal tradeshow scenario, exhibitors cover the costs of the show, and anything over that, including Attendee badge sales is profit. In the case of Internext in Vegas however, that isn't the case. Exhibitor costs are kept at a lower rate (and Attendees higher) in order to make exhibiting at the show a possibility for more businesses. Exhibitors do receive additonal badges depending on the size of their booth (5 free badges, plus 5 for a discounted rate, per 10x10 booth space booked). The theory with Vegas Internext is- the more exhibitors, the more likely people are to find the convention worth coming to. The Summer Conference is now to be approached differently and be less about booths and more about everything in-between.
If you disagree with that logic, LMK!
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Originally posted by JoesHO1@Dec 29 2004, 05:33 PM I would add to that Lee, to say keep the panels shorter, and not let people misinform you, or plug their own stuff ( pay the panel if necassary for their time ) but do not let them promote from the lecturn. Make it an actual imformative place with plenty of dicersity on the panel, and make it timed responses and adhere to them so no babbling takes place LOL
I have been to three state of the industry speeches and like Lee said, I heard the same people say the same thing ( the sky is falling)
I have yet to see people actually try to teach you something, or provide anything usefull at a panel discussion.
See i disagree on making them shorter, many of them are the right length now but, the speakers on them are more interested in plugging their own shit rather than helping webmasters to make more money which, is what the panels are supposed to be about... right?
It just seems like every panel ive attended over the last 4 years ALWAYS have the same people on them, YnotBob, SEGuru, The Gay Mafia Crowd, Colin Rowntree, Odenberger, etc etc.
Its like in 5 years there is nobody else that knows as much as or, more than the same old people spouting the same old bullshit.
Hell even if AVN has a staple of 8 speakers for each panel and they get rotated every show so there is a 'fresh face' to be seen every 2 or 3 shows, thats better than being given the same advice, show after show, after show, after show.
Thats why more people prefer to spend time on the floor or at the bar than at the panels.. because the format is stale and the information given out, for the most part, is also stale.
Originally posted by JoesHO1@Dec 29 2004, 05:33 PM I would add to that Lee, to say keep the panels shorter, and not let people misinform you, or plug their own stuff ( pay the panel if necassary for their time ) but do not let them promote from the lecturn. Make it an actual imformative place with plenty of dicersity on the panel, and make it timed responses and adhere to them so no babbling takes place LOL
I have been to three state of the industry speeches and like Lee said, I heard the same people say the same thing ( the sky is falling)
I have yet to see people actually try to teach you something, or provide anything usefull at a panel discussion.
Hey... I was on those panels and I NEVER said the sky is falling! LOL..
You're right about the gay panel, Lee... it's very repetitive. Who do you suggest as a great gay panelist? Let's get a list together!
As far as the other panels go though, it's been dramatically revamped from the usual 12 to 20 seminars this year. Check out the new seminar schedule here if you'd like: http://www.internext-expo.com/semina...05seminars.pdf
Of course, it remains to be seen if the new format will be better... but at least there's variety now!
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Originally posted by Aly_AVN@Dec 29 2004, 05:49 PM You're right about the gay panel, Lee... it's very repetitive. Who do you suggest as a great gay panelist? Let's get a list together!
Didnt you tell me a couple of weeks ago that the same speakers WERENT going to be on the panels this time around?
In all honesty Aly, i could put together a list of speakers for you but, as long as the political climate within AVN and the companies on the various panels exists, there will never be a change in who does the speaking on what panels.
It just doesnt make good business sense not to have your big spenders not on a panel, they will only whine and whinge at you when they are told they cant b a guest speaker which in the long run, will lose AVN money $0.02
Originally posted by Lee@Dec 29 2004, 05:58 PM Didnt you tell me a couple of weeks ago that the same speakers WERENT going to be on the panels this time around?
Yep i was right you did LOL
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Lee Aly,
Thanks for the reply
On the topic of seminars.. same speakers / information as always i presume?
Regards,
Lee
To the contrary... Quite a departure from the norm actually! (FINALLY!) :biker:
The more things change, the more they stay the same
Originally posted by Lee@Dec 29 2004, 05:58 PM
Didnt you tell me a couple of weeks ago that the same speakers WERENT going to be on the panels this time around?
Yes, I did. In all honesty, I wasn't refering to the gay panel specifically though. Overall, it's far more diverse this time around.
Maybe you're right about the 'big spenders', maybe not... there's certainly logic in your argument but I have to give that more thought. I'd like to see us provide the best seminars we can. Period.
By the way, I'm not kidding when I say I have no idea what this 'political climate within AVN' is that you're refering to.
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Originally posted by Aly_AVN@Dec 29 2004, 06:07 PM By the way, I'm not kidding when I say I have no idea what this 'political climate within AVN' is that you're refering to.
Ill dig out a chat log i had with one of the mafia members a couple of months ago and mail it to you then... should open your eyes a little to say the least
How about smaller round table like discussions with one main speaker and topic per table, then rotate maybe say maximum of 25 to a table at a time, and let different speakers say 4 or 5 speak to each topic i.e 4 tables with seating for 25 on a certain subject, then allow a time limit at each table and rotate the people
you could say have one area on traffic, one on legal , one on state of the industry wetc..like now but diversify the speakers and allow for different points of view without making it a contraversy for a peaker to have a different take on a subject, therefore allowing them to speak more freely and not defensive.
the smaller groups will provide for interaction as well and allow for a think tank type of set up.
be sure to mix experience with in experience as well.
Originally posted by Aly_AVN@Dec 29 2004, 09:07 PM
By the way, I'm not kidding when I say I have no idea what this 'political climate within AVN' is that you're refering to.
Oh my...
Please be nice to Aly now...
Aly I dont have any gay sites and I can even see the Gay Porn Royalty divide.
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We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage."
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"The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
Originally posted by JoesHO1@Dec 29 2004, 06:09 PM How about smaller round table like discussions with one main speaker and topic per table, then rotate maybe say maximum of 25 to a table at a time, and let different speakers say 4 or 5 speak to each topic i.e 4 tables with seating for 25 on a certain subject, then allow a time limit at each table and rotate the people
you could say have one area on traffic, one on legal , one on state of the industry wetc..like now but diversify the speakers and allow for different points of view without making it a contraversy for a peaker to have a different take on a subject, therefore allowing them to speak more freely and not defensive.
the smaller groups will provide for interaction as well and allow for a think tank type of set up.
be sure to mix experience with in experience as well.
sorry...I pictured me circa 2001 (drunk off my tits)... moving from table to table saying :
If you really want to make a difference there Aly, you should start by changin AVN from the inside.
I would start by changing their practice of extortion to the community!
it always has been, and always will be about the money to them. who are you trying to kid here?
all the spin in the world will not help the perception the community has about them, and you know it yourself.
changes aren't permanant, but change is!!!
I do believe however if anyone can do it you can. good luck to you
start on the inside first and make AVN a better place. That is the task at hand you need to focus your efforts on.
I actually agree with the point that you need to give the attendees something to see. It makes good business sense as the number of attendees is more or less flat, while there's definitely bleeding on number of exhibitors.
The price should not be insane, but for an adult show, $100-200 for a badge is just enough to weed out the lookie-loo's. It shouldn't deter someone who is in the business.
The real catch is finding a format that provides some ROI for the exhibitors. All trade shows including mainstream face the same challenge. A trade show used to be where everyone showed off their new products to their dealers, distributors, etc. With the web, we already know about everything that's coming in real time.
Originally posted by buckethead@Dec 29 2004, 06:18 PM If you really want to make a difference there Aly, you should start by changin AVN from the inside.
I would start by changing their practice of extortion to the community!
it always has been, and always will be about the money to them. who are you trying to kid here?
all the spin in the world will not help the perception the community has about them, and you know it yourself.
changes aren't permanant, but change is!!!
I do believe however if anyone can do it you can. good luck to you
start on the inside first and make AVN a better place. That is the task at hand you need to focus your efforts on.
I completely agree!
I'm not interested in putting a spin on a damn thing. I'm interested in taking something with great potential and making it better. And trust me, change is very much afoot!
OKAY GUYS.. please keep the feedback coming and I WILL answer your questions, but right now I have to run to the airport and jump on a plane to New York!
I'll bump this thread back up with LOTS of answers as soon as I can.
Gonzo... thanks so much for this.
Lee, work WITH me. I'm not here to defend anything indefensible, I'm far too proud for that.
Originally posted by Aly_AVN@Dec 29 2004, 09:25 PM
Gonzo... thanks so much for this.
I appreciate you answering questions straight up.
I dont know about thanking me though. Lets see how you feel about it this time tomorrow night. I know this is going to be a hot thread right before the show.
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We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage."
"Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson
"The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
I agree with Gonzo on the price. I know there should be a charge. But. It's not like that is all that money is made on. There are the ad sales of the show, the booth cost that they collect on. If you think about it your average everyday webmaster doesn't have the money to fork out for the hotel, flight, show cost.
Heck I'd like to see something really fun one year. Maybe some karaoke. Like at a lounge or or room or something. Not have it as a open bar but just a place where those that don't want to do the parties etc.. can go and kick back and have some fun.
I probably should have waited to type this at a time when I wasn't drinking *giggle*
Originally posted by princess@Dec 29 2004, 09:37 PM I agree with Gonzo on the price. I know there should be a charge. But. It's not like that is all that money is made on. There are the ad sales of the show, the booth cost that they collect on. If you think about it your average everyday webmaster doesn't have the money to fork out for the hotel, flight, show cost.
Heck I'd like to see something really fun one year. Maybe some karaoke. Like at a lounge or or room or something. Not have it as a open bar but just a place where those that don't want to do the parties etc.. can go and kick back and have some fun.
I probably should have waited to type this at a time when I wasn't drinking *giggle*
Im sure there is an accomidation made for blocking off the rooms at the Mandalay.
Maybe a discount on the hall rental . . .
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We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage."
"Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson
"The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
I metioned this in another thread, then saw this one. Gonzo and I agree I should place it here as well. To save space I'll make it smaller.
Quote:
Eeeesh. 2000% humidity and hurricane threats.
I know there's a lot of good folks in FA who only (and who can blame them?!) attend these shows, and for missing those good folks, well, that is indeed a big regret -- but I don't think I'll be going to those anymore. Miami in March or November, hell yeah!. August? Fuhgetaboudit! Yes, fine, I'm a wuss.
Especially with the increase in importance and in attendance at the Phoenix and San Diego events in moderate climates at normal times of the year, I just see no point in the summer sweat show anymore.
Not enough ROI there for me to spend one week a year: impersonating a bag of boiling peas, see who pissed on the lastest boat, who broke the glass atrium this time, and purchase a bunch of $20 drinks with no alcohol in them.
In short, how about somewhere normal and affordable for the second show? They obviously did it in San Diego and Phoenix and even in Montreal. Why a sauna every year? Again, can't be expense when others can do it. That's my gripe.
Ok, that, and that the NorthEast part of the country is constantly disregarded. Two gripes ... er, um, constructive suggestions.
Originally posted by Dravyk@Dec 29 2004, 09:42 PM I metioned this in another thread, then saw this one. Gonzo and I agree I should place it here as well. To save space I'll make it smaller.
Quote:
Eeeesh. 2000% humidity and hurricane threats.
I know there's a lot of good folks in FA who only (and who can blame them?!) attend these shows, and for missing those good folks, well, that is indeed a big regret -- but I don't think I'll be going to those anymore. Miami in March or November, hell yeah!. August? Fuhgetaboudit! Yes, fine, I'm a wuss.
Especially with the increase in importance and in attendance at the Phoenix and San Diego events in moderate climates at normal times of the year, I just see no point in the summer sweat show anymore.
Not enough ROI there for me to spend one week a year: impersonating a bag of boiling peas, see who pissed on the lastest boat, who broke the glass atrium this time, and purchase a bunch of $20 drinks with no alcohol in them.
In short, how about somewhere normal and affordable for the second show? They obviously did it in San Diego and Phoenix and even in Montreal. Why a sauna every year? Again, can't be expense when others can do it. That's my gripe.
Ok, that, and that the NorthEast part of the country is constantly disregarded. Two gripes ... er, um, constructive suggestions.
Yeah, fuck florida...
Atlantic City would seem like a natural....
Although I'm guessing the unions would make exhibition costs a tad higher than other locales.
Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Dec 29 2004, 09:45 PM Yeah, fuck florida...
Atlantic City would seem like a natural....
Although I'm guessing the unions would make exhibition costs a tad higher than other locales.
I suggested Philly to a few ears, but nothing happened. Figured, between the 20 dance clubs and bars we have on the river front, 50 bars on South Street, 20 at one intersection in Olde City, three sports stadiums, two rock concert venues, all the historical stuff, three of the top 20 restaurants in the country (by that place that rates those every year) ... plus NYC and AC and the casinos are 100 miles and 65 miles away, respectively, it would be a natural. And cheaper than NYC or AC. Ah well, maybe it made too much sense.
NOOOOOOOOOO Tootsies in south florida you cant move that one LOL
all seriousness, I agree that the northeast would be a good change.
I would like Baltimore actually on the inner harbor, several great hotels close good food nearby all the good stuff. on the water etc etc....
God forbid that AVN should actually try to run a business and turn a profit.
For those of you that have never put on shows from scratch, I don't know that you comprehend just how much it takes to break even -- when I was at CCBill, the first year we started managing the Phoenix Forum we had good sponsors. And still went 60k in the hole with the number of attendees we weren't expecting based on the success of other non-AVN shows.
I won't even mention that disaster in Vancouver I ended up paying out of pocket for when one of the co-organizers ran away with the sponsor deposits.
We recently had a DRM conference in the Valley, I don't even know which organization put it together -- the single day passes were 595, and the all-inclusive was 1400 -- they had a total of 5 seminars and 7 booths.
As someone who is now one of the principal organizers of Cybernet Expo, I'm certainly paying attention here.
I've heard it all before already LOL and while there is some very good constructive criticism here, it is blatantly obvious with some of the responses that some of you have never organized a show before much less a successful gathering.
You are never going to please everyone, but a good rule of thumb is not to alienate large numbers of people.
Originally posted by JoesHO1@Dec 29 2004, 09:55 PM NOOOOOOOOOO Tootsies in south florida you cant move that one LOL
all seriousness, I agree that the northeast would be a good change.
I would like Baltimore actually on the inner harbor, several great hotels close good food nearby all the good stuff. on the water etc etc....
Hey Hey Hey No Baltimore
I live close by and don't want a bunch of porn mongers clogging up the inner harbor
Would like to see a Northeast summer show instead of Florida
New York maybe? Philly?
and why Vegas every year? Ok I'm the only one not thrilled about Vegas with the exception of the Cirque shows
New Orleans was great for shows, would make a great winter show and there is gambling
As far as panelists, I've enjoyed speaking with Colin Roundtree in the past but business is different now
Who's really going to give up any real info without plugging what they have to offer? Sometimes you get the plug with no real usable info
Processing is what to me is most important to hear about, then possible legal issues, then tech issues and what everyone else is trying to push out new
Joe may be on to something with a more "roundtable" format
I'm also a fan of sitting in the lobby and letting everyone pass by. Anyone I'd like to make contact with or speak with comes by sooner or later
Between the lobby and possible roundtables a lot of contacts can be made. Maybe the roundtables should be on the showroom floor (toward the back so everyone has to go through) to keep bodies where the exhibitors are
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Have been looking at KA HP, the show looks great
in 2 weeks am going to Orlando to see La Nuba (again)
Then sometime later this year going to Vegas just to see Zumanity (then maybe off to the Elvis Chapel for a wedding - not kidding)
Already have VIP tickets to see Varekai when it comes here to Baltimore next May (saw it last October in DC)
This has nothing to do with the actual Internext show but I've always thought if I was going to do anything at a show for Cloud 9 Cash affiliates I'd get tickets for affiliates to one of the Cirque shows - most likely O
ROI on parties is near impossible to measure and from what I've heard in the past few years if anything is getting worse
Did I heard correct? That Maxcash wasn't going to do a Gameworks party this year. That was always one of the best functions of the year, lot of fun, very nice event and a great atmosphere
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How about getting a hotel that accomodates everyone..
seriously - moving from the venetian is horrible, im in the luxor and i booked something like 3 months in advance. The purpose of a convention is to see people and meet face to face, but what makes it harder is making everyone spread out across different hotels...
This by far is my biggest turn off.. next time around, make sure there are enough rooms, because if this happens again come Miami, I'm not going.
Yep no Gameworks That was one of the events during Vegas i actually looked forward to going to also
Wonder if it would be bad form to take over that event in 2006? Hmm...
Biggy,
I hear ya on the hotel issue too, Gary and i are actually in the Luxor despite holding several sponsored events in the Mandalay which even after we paid close to 40k to them, we were still unable to get ANY decent room!
Originally posted by Vick@Dec 30 2004, 01:21 AM Then sometime later this year going to Vegas just to see Zumanity (then maybe off to the Elvis Chapel for a wedding - not kidding)
Caught Zumanity during Internext last year. It's a bit different for a Cirque show, and I'm not just talking about the adult aspects. I enjoyed it and laughed out loud a number of times, but it's not one I'd likely go see again. Excellent couples show though and very unique. If you get "couch seating", figure on being part of some "audience participation"....
Quote:
This has nothing to do with the actual Internext show but I've always thought if I was going to do anything at a show for Cloud 9 Cash affiliates I'd get tickets for affiliates to one of the Cirque shows - most likely O
As of right now, I agree. O is the definitive Cirque show with an absolutely amazing theater and stage. KA is trying to one-up it. I'll let ya know if they succeeded sometime next week..
Quote:
ROI on parties is near impossible to measure and from what I've heard in the past few years if anything is getting worse
You have to throw ROI out the window for a party. At this point you have to look at it as one of the following:
1) a celebration of a good year
2) a way to show appreciation to your affiliates and others you do business with
3) a branding exercise that lets everyone know you're big enough to be for real and have enough money to play
Quote:
Did I heard correct? That Maxcash wasn't going to do a Gameworks party this year. That was always one of the best functions of the year, lot of fun, very nice event and a great atmosphere
Yup, far as I know it isn't happening.
That's a shame, definitely one of the best events of the week and one where a lot of business does get done or at least relationships get started which lead to business later. And that's all you can really ask for as an attendee....
Wish someone had picked that one up even if they had to scale it back to a cash bar or something.
I don't think it matters what is planned. It only matters who is there. Everyone gets out of it what they want. The Orlando show in 1997 was phenomenal and it was very short on events.
A good example of how lucky we are. A few years ago Ron of Cybererotica sponsored the go-cart races at the show. Ron was just hanging out talking to anyone who approached him. In what other business does one have the opportunity to walk up to the CEOs of the largest companies in the business and talk shop?
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I would like to point out something small here .... play devil's advocate a moment ...
As far as location goes ...
You guys make it sound like any city here in the good ol U.S. of A. would be not only willing but GRACIOUS about throwing open its doors to a group of 3000-5000 pornographers. Unfortunately, even in the "land of the free" - this is sadly not even close to true.
I'm sure he was probably kidding, but Vicks post about "not near my home" pretty much sums up almost everyone's feelings on us. I'm certain one of the big reasons AVN keeps bouncing between florida and vegas is because those are 2 area's we are fairly welcome, without issue, that can handle a convention of our size.
Check this out. I live in Orlando. I was NOT in this industry (sad ) when the Orlando IA2000 happened. Too bad really, cause it will never ever happen here again. If the city of Orlando, or "The Big Rat" got wind of a PORN convention in the city, we would all be rode out on rails. Not to mention the fact that the booze train dries up about 2am here. Thats right - after 2am you can NOT get booze in the city. WTF are all the late night webmasters gonna do now??
The smaller conventions get away with different places, and give us variety, by being just that ..... smaller. If we can build a rapport with a hotel when we start small, we *might* have a chance at going back next year ... .maybe .... assuming furniture hasnt gone over balconies, carpets and tables havent been destryed by ciggarette butts, webmasters havent treated all the staff like assholes etc etc etc.
I'm actually enjoying this thread.. I have always thought that the Vegas show and the Florida show should be swapped. That way we are all in Vegas mid-year when its not chilly. We are in Florida in the winter when its not hot.
12-29-2004
That was one of the events during Vegas i actually looked forward to going to also 
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