December 7, 1941

[sarettah]

"A date that will live in infamy" (FDR)

"I fear that we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve." (Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto)

:grrr:

[Fletch XXX]

Fuck FDR.

his gold taking was the exact as stalin taking the farms.

[JR]

http://www.pbs.org/childofcamp/history/index.html


"Executive Order 9066 was justified as a "military necessity" to protect against domestic espionage and sabotage. However, it was later documented that "our government had in its possession proof that not one Japanese American, citizen or not, had engaged in espionage, not one had committed any act of sabotage." (Michi Weglyn, 1976).

Rather, the causes for this unprecedented action in American history, according to the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians, "were motivated largely by racial prejudice, wartime hysteria, and a failure of political leadership."



Last edited by JR at Dec 6 2003, 10:02 PM

[Hell Puppy]

If you're going to hate FDR's war time actions, hate him for the big one...

INCOME TAX WITHHOLDING

That was put in place supposedly only until the end of the war. Instead now we have two full generations, soon to be three, who have no idea what they really make and how much they pay in taxes.

Can you imagine the reaction if all the guys who make say $30K-ish all had to mail a check to uncle sam for $10K on April 15th?

As is, most are so stupid they have no idea they actually pay that much in taxes. Ask 'em how much they paid in taxes last year and many of them will boast, "nothing! i got some back!"

[Forest]

verry sad day in history

[sarettah]

Well, I didn't think I was starting a thread on FDR... Thought I was recognizing a horrible day in our country's history....

But, if a thread on FDR is called for...

Faced with a depression economy and a world war, what would you have done differently ?

As far as the Japanese internment goes, are you also aware that Germans and Italians were also rounded up and spirited away... I know many Italian-Americans were locked up on Ellis Island for the duration, I think the Germans were there too, not sure on that though...and a much greater population of Japanese-Americans were locked up then the Germans or Italians, but it is really a whole lot easier to spot a Japanese-American than it is to spot just another white guy....

Faced with the same predicament, what would you do differently ?? Please note that after 9/11, the current administration adopted the same tactics if not with the same intensity....

[PornoDoggy]

I don't think Fletch was talking about the Japanese interment ... he was talking, I assume about taking us off the gold standard.

Surely it can't suprise you that the FDR haters would come out to play today.

Can you imagine the reaction if all the guys who make say $30K-ish all had to mail a check to uncle sam for $10K on April 15th?

Yes - we would have closed a lot more loopholes for corporations and other folks, or we would live in a country as ill-prepared for the events of 9/11 as we were for 12/7.

[KRL]

Since 1941 the United States has spent about $15 Trillion to build the most powerful security, defense and military force the world has ever seen, and how ironic that on 9/11 just a handful of simple men showed the world the immense power that can be wielded not by attacking the United States with the nuclear weapons it has feared for the past 5 decades, but rather with just men's hands, some box cutters, a bit of ingenuity, and the unfaltering willingness to die for your cause.



Last edited by KRL at Dec 7 2003, 11:27 AM

[sarettah]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Dec 7 2003, 11:12 AM
I don't think Fletch was talking about the Japanese interment ... he was talking, I assume about taking us off the gold standard.

Surely it can't suprise you that the FDR haters would come out to play today.

Fletch was talking about the gold standard...

But JR was talking about Japanese internment......


I don't care about the gold standard so much... We are now on the energy standard..

Side's it seems that after millions of years of mankind we should be able to find a better economic standard then a rock (and if it's got to be a rock, let's base it on one that's easier to find.... )

[sarettah]

Originally posted by KRL@Dec 7 2003, 11:27 AM
and the unfaltering willingness to die for your cause.

That is the one that will get you every time.....


actually it is the "Unquestioning, unfaltering willingness to diefor your cause"

[JR]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX@Dec 6 2003, 09:57 PM
Fuck FDR.

his gold taking was the exact as stalin taking the farms.

how many times have you made positive referrences to socialism and marxism?

where were the "good marxists"? the biggest ignorance in politics is the assertion that one power hungry prick is better than another. they are all motivated by selfishness, character flaws and ego... not a good will towards men.

"returning power to the people" is rarely more than a pretext for taking it away.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by KRL@Dec 7 2003, 11:27 AM
Since 1941 the United States has spent about $15 Trillion to build the most powerful security, defense and military force the world has ever seen, and how ironic that on 9/11 just a handful of simple men showed the world the immense power that can be wielded not by attacking the United States with the nuclear weapons it has feared for the past 5 decades, but rather with just men's hands, some box cutters, a bit of ingenuity, and the unfaltering willingness to die for your cause.

Not trying to tarnish your reputation , but I agree completely. It points out the fundamental flaw in the Bush policy toward the war on terror - the idea that it is a problem that can be solved exclusively with military force.

I'm an unrepentant leftist, but I'm not one who rants and raves about the interment. Oh, it was a dispicable act based on racism and accomplished absolutely nothing, and is a black mark on our history. Even so, it's hardly suprising in a society that barely "allowed" a portion of its population to actually fight because it wasn't believed that they could (or the descendants of former traitors didn't like the idea of them getting their hands on guns).

[[Labret]]

Give me a fucking break. I get sick to my stomach everytime 12/7 rolls around when the fucking flag wavers run out to play victim again.

Just like 9-11, the United States brought 12/7 upon themselves.

Does everyone forget what Roosevelt did in July 1941? A fucking crude oil embargo against Japan. Not only that, the nutcase froze nearly all Japanese assets in this country. If those are not acts of war without firing a gun, I dont know what the hell is.

Take your flags and then ram them up your ignorant asses.



Last edited by [Labret] at Dec 7 2003, 12:09 PM

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by [Labret]@Dec 7 2003, 02:09 PM
Does everyone forget what Roosevelt did in July 1941? A fucking crude oil embargo against Japan. Not only that, the nutcase froze nearly all Japanese assets in this country. If those are not acts of war without firing a gun, I dont know what the hell is.

And why, pray tell, did he do those things? What was Japan doing that promted such measures?


Don't give me a slanted negatively twisted answer. State the actual answer.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by [Labret]@Dec 7 2003, 03:09 PM
Give me a fucking break. I get sick to my stomach everytime 12/7 rolls around when the fucking flag wavers run out to play victim again.

Just like 9-11, the United States brought 12/7 upon themselves.

Does everyone forget what Roosevelt did in July 1941? A fucking crude oil embargo against Japan. Not only that, the nutcase froze nearly all Japanese assets in this country. If those are not acts of war without firing a gun, I dont know what the hell is.

Take your flags and then ram them up your ignorant asses.

I know fully well what Roosevelt did in July 41. You seem to be saying that these DIPLOMATIC moves were UNPROVOKED acts of aggression that left the poor, defenseless Japanese with no choice.

Your knowledge of history suggests that you ought to stick to sociology.

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by CDSmith+Dec 7 2003, 12:21 PM-->