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"We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask, What is our policy? I will say; "It is to wage war, by sea, land and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us: to wage war against a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy." You ask, What is our aim? I can answer with one word: Victory - victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival." "
"We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France and on the seas and oceans; we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be; we shall fight on beaches, landing grounds, in fields, in streets and on the hills. We shall never surrender and even if, which I do not for the moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, will carry on the struggle until in God's good time the New World with all its power and might, sets forth to the liberation and rescue of the Old"
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Originally posted by Colin+Oct 9 2003, 11:40 AM-->
QUOTE (Colin @ Oct 9 2003, 11:40 AM)
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Since you said Leader and not Politician/Statesman, I will have to reply that Vince Lombardi was the greatest leader of the 20th Century:
No.1 Speech, by Vince Lombardi
Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.
There is no room for second place. There is only one place in my game, and that's first place. I have finished second twice in my time at Green Bay, and I don't ever want to finish second again. There is a second place bowl game, but it is a game for losers played by losers. It is and always has been an American zeal to be first in anything we do, and to win, and to win, and to win.
Every time a football player goes to ply his trade he's got to play from the ground up — from the soles of his feet right up to his head. Every inch of him has to play. Some guys play with their heads. That's O.K. You've got to be smart to be number one in any business. But more importantly, you've got to play with your heart, with every fiber of your body. If you're lucky enough to find a guy with a lot of head and a lot of heart, he's never going to come off the field second.
Running a football team is no different than running any other kind of organization — an army, a political party or a business. The principles are the same. The object is to win — to beat the other guy. Maybe that sounds hard or cruel. I don't think it is.
It is a reality of life that men are competitive and the most competitive games draw the most competitive men. That's why they are there — to compete. To know the rules and objectives when they get in the game. The object is to win fairly, squarely, by the rules — but to win.
And in truth, I've never known a man worth his salt who in the long run, deep down in his heart, didn't appreciate the grind, the discipline. There is something in good men that really yearns for discipline and the harsh reality of head to head combat.
I don't say these things because I believe in the "brute" nature of man or that men must be brutalized to be combative. I believe in God, and I believe in human decency. But I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle — victorious.
This is an interesting read for you Americans out there:
Quote:
Less congenial was the relationship between Ronald Reagan and Pierre Trudeau, who likened living with the United States to "sleeping with an elephant."
I wrote a paper in HS about Hitler being a great leader and nearly got thrown out for it and this was way before being politically correct was fashionable. Turns out the history teacher was Jewish and didn't like it very much. (I didn't know that at the time or I probably would have picked someone else)
I don't agree at all with what he did during WWII but he did make Germany a world power after it had been decimated by WWI. A great leader gets people to follow them and he surely did it. Does it matter if it's for evil purposes for this discussion? A poor leader sticks his finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing that day in order to figure out what the policy of the day is. Great leaders have a vision and make it happen. Hitler surely did that.
I'm sure some people will take this post the wrong way but I in no way endorse the nazi's or Hitler. The conversation is about leadership and I do think he was a great leader even though he was insane.
Originally posted by Colin@Oct 9 2003, 06:32 AM I like Churchill in the 20th.
"We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France and on the seas and oceans; we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be; we shall fight on beaches, landing grounds, in fields, in streets and on the hills. We shall never surrender and even if, which I do not for the moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, will carry on the struggle until in God's good time the New World with all its power and might, sets forth to the liberation and rescue of the Old"
Yep, Nixon. I've been doing a bit of reading up on him of late and to say that he did not truly change politics in America, hell change the foundation of American politics itself, would be wrong.
We aren't talking morals here, we're talking effectiveness at a job and change to a nation.
I personally think it's Churchill, with FDR a close second - but (not exactly an earthshaking suprise 'round these parts) you've left off Ghandi. Ho Chi Mihn also deserves a place on 20th century lists - and no, I am not an admirer of him, but his successors are still around whereas those of Hitler and Stalin are not.
Ghandi would appear on my list well above Hitler, who had some short-term success but was unable to build anything that could be sustained. His decision to take on the Soviet Union without first securing a committment from the Japanese to join him may very well be the most (fortunate) collosal blunder of the 20th century - while others may argue that his decision to declare war on America also ranks up there, I'll agree it "weren't too bright", but it was more a matter of form than substance. My father was hunting German submarines off the coast of Canada in the U.S. Coast Guard by the fall of 1940.
From the perspective of American politics, KK is partially correct - Nixon/Mitchell did finish off a process that was already underway - but as much credit for that has to go to the rise of the neoconservative movement as exmplified by Buckley, Goldwater, Reagan, et al. I think she's giving him far too much credit, and putting him a list on the greatest leaders of the 20th century is preposterous.
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I'm going with reagan also, he did more during the early 80's than most do in 2 lifetimes, cold war, economy, not to mention the military was in terrible shape in the late 70's, nam had taken it's toll and he came in and made it a profession to be proud of again, plus he gave us a raise(first one in many years ) We all had a picture of him in our rooms that we would salute EVERY day. How many presidents have that kind of respect from the military?
From a personal viewpoint, it was the bear True hero to many folks down here during a time when we(southerns) didnt have many. Not to mention a legecy that still looms very large. (and one of the few heros I"ve met and broke bread with
oh, and in the entertainment world, ELVIS & Beatles
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Oct 9 2003, 03:19 PM Well, shit. Sorry about that ... I'm fighting a touch of pneumonia and spending a little time coughing my friggin head off.
Reagan would appear on my list above Nixon, but probably barely in the top 20.
A lot of people sick right now. I know someone hospitalized with pneumonia and others with flu.
FDR was my next. I have the same top 3 as you.
After that maybe Lech Walesa and David Ben Gurion. Those guys were leaders.
Martin Luther King. That was one brave man. The bullet that ended his life proves it.
How about Arafat? ;-)
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Hitler and Lenin/Stalin were very powerfil leaders, and changed the world with ideas....
It is all in how you define it.
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Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 9 2003, 04:39 PM Leadership is the art of getting someone else to do something you want done because he wants to do it. - Dwight Eisenhower
"Men make history, and not the other way around. In periods where there is no leadership, society stands still. Progress occurs when courageous, skillful leaders seize the opportunity to change things for the better." - Truman
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10-09-2003
Nick@ilynx: "MasterP, YOU'RE FIRED!"
Here is a snippet of the man himself.
We all had a picture of him in our rooms that we would salute EVERY day. How many presidents have that kind of respect from the military?
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