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Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Nov 24 2003, 11:55 AM or are you giving up?
;-)))
Arouse? All I did was make an avatar.
I started none of the threads. I started none of the rants that got your monkies worked up.
Giving up? On what? The old folks peter'd out. All I do is respond, and there is nothing to respond to. So here I sit, bored. I suppose I could post some lyrics and shake my fist at the screen.
[Labret] stood stone-like at midnight, suspended in his masquerade
[Labret] combed his hair till it was just right and commanded the night brigade
[Labret] was open to pain and crossed by the rain and [Labret] walked on a crooked crutch
[Labret] strolled all alone through a fallout zone and come out with his soul untouched
[Labret] hid in the clouded wrath of the crowd, but when they said, "Sit down," he stood up
Ooh... growin' up
The flag of piracy flew from [Labret]'s mast, his sails were set wing to wing
[Labret] had a jukebox graduate for first mate, she couldn't sail but she sure could sing
[Labret] pushed a B-52 and bombed them with the blues with his gear set stubborn on standing
[Labret] broke all the rules, strafed his old high school, never once gave thought to landing
[Labret] hid in the clouded wrath of the crowd, but when they said, "Come down," [Labret] threw up
Ooh... growin' up
[Labret] took month-long vacations in the stratosphere, and you know it's really hard to hold your breath
[Labret] swear he lost everything he ever loved or feared, [Labret] was the cosmic kid in full costume dress
Well, his feet they finally took root in the earth, but [Labret] got a nice little place in the stars
And [Labret]swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car
[Labret] hid in the mother breast of the crowd, but when they said, "Pull down," he pulled up
Ooh... growin' up
Ooh... growin' up
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Originally posted by Vick@Nov 24 2003, 12:18 PM [Labret] stood stone-like at midnight, suspended in his masquerade
[Labret] combed his hair till it was just right and commanded the night brigade
[Labret] was open to pain and crossed by the rain and [Labret] walked on a crooked crutch
[Labret] strolled all alone through a fallout zone and come out with his soul untouched
[Labret] hid in the clouded wrath of the crowd, but when they said, "Sit down," he stood up
Ooh... growin' up
The flag of piracy flew from [Labret]'s mast, his sails were set wing to wing
[Labret] had a jukebox graduate for first mate, she couldn't sail but she sure could sing
[Labret] pushed a B-52 and bombed them with the blues with his gear set stubborn on standing
[Labret] broke all the rules, strafed his old high school, never once gave thought to landing
[Labret] hid in the clouded wrath of the crowd, but when they said, "Come down," [Labret] threw up
Ooh... growin' up
[Labret] took month-long vacations in the stratosphere, and you know it's really hard to hold your breath
[Labret] swear he lost everything he ever loved or feared, [Labret] was the cosmic kid in full costume dress
Well, his feet they finally took root in the earth, but [Labret] got a nice little place in the stars
And [Labret]swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car
[Labret] hid in the mother breast of the crowd, but when they said, "Pull down," he pulled up
Ooh... growin' up
Ooh... growin' up
Originally posted by TeenGodFather@Nov 24 2003, 12:45 PM Maybe labret should put a nice cartoon bunnyrabbit in his avatar, and agree with everyone on everything. That's what I plan to do when I grow up.
Originally posted by Vick@Nov 24 2003, 12:38 PM [Labret] - if you have the time we'll start on music
We'll lay any animosities between our board personalities aside and go
My forte is American Music 1955 - current but am versed in other areas as well
want to start with the Ramones and their cultural significance?
Sure, but first just let me start off by saying that no matter what you say to me regarding the corporate churned out horse shit that you are going to try and explain bears some sort of cultural significance, I will laugh at everything you have to say.
You have already proved any point I would try to make regarding "popular music".
I take a very marxist approach to popular music and its funtion. Borrowing from the Frankfurt School, popular music (ie the crap you poison yourself with) can be encompassed in three general claims. Everything you listen to is a result of standardization. To quote a man of unrivaled genius,
Quote:
"once a musical or lyrical pattern has proved successful it is exploited to commercial exhaustion, culminating in the crystallization of standards. Standardization of song hits keeps the customer in line by doing their listening for them, as it were. Pseudo-individualization, for its part, keeps them in line by making them forget that what they listen to is already listened to for them, or pre-digested".
I can spell that out for you if it does not make any sense.
The standardization creates an atmosphere of passive listening. The vicious cycle that capitalism locks people into (work, desire for escape, work, desire for escape) leaves little energy for actual "escape". America is a nation that avoids effort. It rewards those that create things that remove effort, esp in leisure. Music is no different. Popular music is the non productive correlate to life in this country. Soulless and without value.
To argue with me about the cultural significance of the crap you love would be about as beneficial as arguing whether or not a bag of doritos or a can of pringles has more cultural significance.
Forget the third point, which wont matter anyhow as it just relates the above to the socio-psychological funtion of it all.
Stop looking down your nose and open your mind a little - it's like a parachute, works best when open
Also you have no idea what range of music I listen to. Calling it crap before you even know what it is insults yourself
Now we're done spitting at each other
Actually I agree (to a point) and that's why the Ramones are very significant
In the USA at the end of the 70's we were subjected to disco, Saturday Night Fever, boring 10 minute long guitar/drum solos, Freebird, Peter Frampton and Stairway to Heaven - all boring and ignorant.
Devoid of any real artist merit or innovation (I know I'll get trashed from that but all of those songs/artists were played ad nausem)
Then the Ramones came along with (no artist pretensions and not a lot of technical merit) 2 minute 30 second songs, 3 chords, interesting/thought provoking lyrics, catchy Beach Boy-esque harmonies.
There were a garage band that played their first gig for 4 people, built a following of the disenfranchised when being other than mainstream and or being disenfranchised actually meant something
Their song lyrics touched places that hadn't been explored, or at least not in their fashion
Music was given back to the garage players, kids and such - at least for a short while
*side note - I find it deliciously ironic that the Ramones first records couldn't get any airplay but today are soundtrack to commercials
and from that came the Sex Pistols who were a prime example of the standardization and manipulation you speak of (they started out of a clothing store and were the puppets of their manger Malcom - at least in the beginning)
But Sid Vicious took it seriously and bled every night (I like to think that was for the corporate sins of punk) and as we all know died from a Heroin OD - another delicious irony
The boy who was a puppet and thought it was for real .......
Was a causality of his own beliefs and excesses
Beyond that I think you don't give enough credit to what is a portion of the (American) listening public
Not everyone, especially kids (teens, 20-something's) accept everything that is marketed to them and shoved (spoon fed) down their throats
Which explains the current market and may underground bands, unique sounds that haven't been homogenized and controlled
Another irony, IRL it's usually me with the disdain for the general public or as I occasionally say "I don't much care for humans"
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Stop looking down your nose and open your mind a little - it's like a parachute, works best when open
It takes more energy to frown than it does to smile. When you point your finger there are always three pointed back at you. No more cliche please.
Looking down my nose? I simply stated the truth. I agree with what I said 100%. Which is unusual as I generally accept and understand the flaw in any argument I will try and make. But when it comes to the marxist critique of the culture industry, however off the wall it may sound, I hold it as gospel. Basically flawless. Open my mind? How much more open can it be? I have taken the time to actually study every major sociological theory regarding the function of popular music in popular culture, and I have the closed mind?
Quote:
Also you have no idea what range of music I listen to. Calling it crap before you even know what it is insults yourself
Quote:
My forte is American Music 1955 - current
?
Quote:
*side note - I find it deliciously ironic that the Ramones first records couldn't get any airplay but today are soundtrack to commercials
Members of Frankfurt School talk of this extensively, the culture industry hijacking what Horkheimer calls "authentic culture", and depriving it of its critical functions.
Quote:
Beyond that I think you don't give enough credit to what is a portion of the (American) listening public
Not everyone, especially kids (teens, 20-something's) accept everything that is marketed to them and shoved (spoon fed) down their throats
They are not supposed to, nor do they need to. Which goes back to what I said about psuedo-standardization. You are given the illusion of choice. The mega corporations that control virtually any and all "popular music" spend freakish amounts of money and time searching for the "patterns". They can afford to generate a virtually endless supply of bands that eventually someone will buy into. If you ever get a chance, look for a documentary called the "merchants of cool". It follows groups of industry mooks as they do their job. Which is creating this illusion of choice in the music industry and dictating and identifying trends. Outside of airlines, they are one of the largest employers of sociologists.
Beyond that it is a bit confusing that you claim open mindedness and narrow mindedness as it suits your arguments
Here your arguments/statements are sound, nothing really to refute
the entertainment industry spends immense amounts of $ and sometimes still resorts to the throw it to the wall and see what sticks theory - which success for some "breakout"/indie bands can be attributed to
Which leads me to discussing music ....... I'd be interested in hearing what you enjoy listening to. Or what musical efforts you consider interesting
You tend to discuss theory as opposed to practical applications or practicality
Also you really didn't comment on the social significance of the Ramones, they were ground breaking both musically and socially (which is odd to say musically as they were very stripped down and basic)
I threw the Sex Pistols stuff in to show "proof" of your corp music machines and for the irony
I'll keep an eye out for "merchants of cool"
Don't agree with your earlier statement that Popular music is the non productive correlate to life in this country. Soulless and without value
Or better expressed as I don't feel that about all pop music
Yes some of the homogenized, aimed at teens/20's will fit that pigeonhole but many pop musical efforts and stylings are thought provoking and well worth listing to and very enjoyable
When we have time another day I'd like to go further into "The vicious cycle that capitalism locks people into (work, desire for escape, work, desire for escape) leaves little energy for actual "escape".
America is a nation that avoids effort. It rewards those that create things that remove effort, esp in leisure. Music is no different. Popular music is the non productive correlate to life in this country. Soulless and without value"
Does the drug culture that is prevalent in America disprove or prove there is actually little energy needed or expended for escape?
What about organized religion and the effort for escape?
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Brrr - it's too cold to leave the house for me. I'm getting ready to curl up on the sofa with a nice fire, a glass of wine and watch TiVo (or Desperado - depending on the kid).
Originally posted by Vick@Nov 24 2003, 08:26 PM I think you have me confused with someone else - not a junkie, don't play one on TV and don't drink everyday
I'm a junkie. I have an amazing amount of junk. I like to call it "nouveau shabby". :P
Originally posted by Peaches@Nov 24 2003, 07:26 PM Brrr - it's too cold to leave the house for me. I'm getting ready to curl up on the sofa with a nice fire, a glass of wine and watch TiVo (or Desperado - depending on the kid).
woo hoo!!
This is where I get to take sick pleasure (& revenge!!) in the fact that you are shivering with cold Its our turn down under for warmth!!
I took lisa's kids to a water park on the weekend - it was about 85 with an afternoon electrical storm - we are getting a real summer this year!! (and i got bloody sunburnt!!!!)
I love summer
I love summer
I love summer
I love summer
I love summer
:P
So I'm watching the GG Allin documentary...wondering "when the fuck is Chevy or Toyota gonna come out and use some of his whacked out stuff?" Would make for some great off-road music...or music to jack a car to......
Originally posted by Vick@Nov 25 2003, 07:17 AM I do find it somewhat interesting that Labret can expound endlessly on what his professors have drilled into his head .....
.... but can't expound on the cultural and social significance of the Ramones ... which occured over the past 30 years
Life studied as opposed to life lived
"Beat on the Brat
Beat on the Brat
Beat on the Brat with a Baseball Bat" ... Joey Ramone 1951-2001
Gabba Gabba Hey
I find it more interesting that you are too soft in the head to take my two previous rants regarding the function of popular music and not be able to draw a logical conclusion. Do I need to hold your hand and spell it out for you?
What more do you want? The Ramones started out small, ended up co-opted by the culture industry, rendering any effect they may have had null and void. The Ramones are now used to sell Rice A Roni. Its sad, its a tragedy, may Allah kill those responsible.
And I still fail to see any of the cultural and social significance to the Ramones that you are alleged to have made.
My boys at Big Champaign still want to know where that mp3 dump is that you run.
Its not phony....its Sony.
I could care less what you and your friends want. What is it you expect of me? Do you feel left out? Do you need some attention? Did you think I would just add an account for you and allow you access? Go away.
Outside of your comfortable Academia, with a subject that hasn't been drilled into your head that you can quote by rote .....
....so you try to dismiss it or apply what you have learned to it
The Ramones are significant in and to the cultural and social development of the late 20th century -
But I won't spell it out for you like your professors do so you can spit it back later after you learn -
You enjoy learning - here's another opportunity for you. Go study and come back and we'll discuss more
Did you know the capitol of the world - New York City is dedicating the corner of Bowery and Second Street as Joey Ramone Place?
On Sunday, November 30, 2003 the City of New York will officially name the corner of Bowery and Second Street "Joey Ramone Place" in a ceremony to recognize Joey Ramone's historic achievements
Last edited by Vick at Nov 25 2003, 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by [Labret]@Nov 25 2003, 10:36 AM
Quote:
My boys at Big Champaign still want to know where that mp3 dump is that you run.
Its not phony....its Sony.
I could care less what you and your friends want. What is it you expect of me? Do you feel left out? Do you need some attention? Did you think I would just add an account for you and allow you access? Go away.
nah I just figured Id see how youd react to a little prodding from the low tech side of the fence. Im in total awe of your piracy skills. Please continue to tell us all how smart you are....
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Originally posted by [Labret]@Nov 25 2003, 10:47 AM
for the love of christ.
There is no cultural and social significance of the Ramones. No more so than any other small punk band that eventually gets sucked into the machine. Jesus, did you live through the 90s? I can name 50 other bands that fit the bill.
I am glad you like to showcase your Ramones knowledge, I am real impressed.
There is no cultural and social significance of the Ramones. No more so than any other small punk band that eventually gets sucked into the machine. Jesus, did you live through the 90s? I can name 50 other bands that fit the bill.
Originally posted by [Labret]@Nov 25 2003, 11:36 AM I could care less what you and your friends want.
One would think that being the highly educated person that you are, you'd know the correct phrase is "I couldn't care less....". Unless, of course, you really DO care what Gonzo and his friends want.
Originally posted by Vick@Nov 25 2003, 08:06 AM Outside of your comfortable Academia, with a subject that hasn't been drilled into your head that you can quote by rote .....
....so you try to dismiss it or apply what you have learned to it
You really don't know do you?
Something that hasn't been spoon fed to your education, you can't answer
Let's see if you're the student you claim to be, this is right in with your interests
Think there's room for you in the Hall and Oats fan club?
Oops I edited a post instead fo making a new one, please forgive the error
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Nov 25 2003, 08:03 AM
Quote:
There is no cultural and social significance of the Ramones. No more so than any other small punk band that eventually gets sucked into the machine. Jesus, did you live through the 90s? I can name 50 other bands that fit the bill.
I hate to say this , but I agree with Labret.
The Ramones sucked.
What is it with people and reading comprehension around here.
I did not say the Ramones sucked.
All I said basically was arguing the "social and cultural significance" of the Ramones is about as valid as arguing the significance of a bag of Doritos. Both are nothing more than a corporate product. And moreso now than ever before even by dipshits own admission.
His limited proof for significance? This is a good one, I almost spit up... mainstream recognition. The very thing I argue robs them of any validity in both my previous posts. He will never get it.
And the clincher, at first he wants me to address it, when I ask him to explain the major significance so I can address it, I get: "but I won't spell it out for you like your professors do so you can spit it back later after you learn". Yeah, ok.
Labret is logged on, why hasn't he replied to Vicks post? Is he researching to find out what Vick is talking about? Calling a trusted and special professor?
Originally posted by spazlabz@Nov 25 2003, 08:21 AM Labret is logged on, why hasn't he replied to Vicks post? Is he researching to find out what Vick is talking about? Calling a trusted and special professor?
spaz
What exactly is there to respond to?
I say there is no cultural significance, I have said it 5 fucking times.
He says there is but fails to say what they are.
Again, I say there is not. I have already argued why there is not. It is now up to him to argue why there is.
11-24-2003
Its our turn down under for warmth!!
Unless, of course, you really DO care what Gonzo and his friends want. 
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