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rhymer, when was the last time you hugged a terrorist? Maybe we should send you to the middle east, so you can tell them to enjoy life instead of the after life?
On second thought... the mere sight of a messed up socialist might only encourage the terrorists to blow up the whole world
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Originally posted by Rolo@Dec 9 2004, 12:38 PM rhymer, when was the last time you hugged a terrorist? Maybe we should send you to the middle east, so you can tell them to enjoy life instead of the after life?
On second thought... the mere sight of a messed up socialist might only encourage the terrorists to blow up the whole world
Sorry you are too late. I have been there and talked to a few already. BTW, just because someone opposes a stupid war or holding folks for years without trial does not make them a socialist (not that there is anything wrong with socialists). I would hope even the odd fascist would support that....probably not. Not from what I read here anyway. Take a number and wait in line. The freeking cracker barrel is gonna get crowded.
Originally posted by rhymer@Dec 9 2004, 02:02 PM BTW, just because someone opposes a stupid war or holding folks for years without trial does not make them a socialist (not that there is anything wrong with socialists).
Sure you can be against the war, but I have not heard a single rational argument to why the war is not worth it. The endless rhetoric, which tries to turn every small event into a world crisis is idiotic. There are 25 million iraqis who have gotten rid of their tyrant, and will have their first election in less than 2 months... and the only thing the "anti iraq war" crowd can talk about is how a few islamic nutcases are treated - the same nutcases who would probably cut your throat to the tones of quran reading - yelling from their top of their lungs "God is great, God is great, God is great".
Yes, I feel sorry for the iraqis, and the problems behind and ahead of them, but I have no feelings for those islamic fundamentalist exploding bombs at iraqi marketplaces, police stations etc. killing men, women and children in the hopes of creating chaos.
Saddam is not coming back, terrorists are bad people, and the US is not going anywhere until the last sandy oil titty have been sucked dry... learn to live with it, and break free fom the endless rhetoric.
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Anyone who resorts to calling someone a socialist because they oppose the war in Iraq is on really shakey fucking ground criticizing anyone's rhetoric.
The fact that an Iraqi has been put into detention does not mean he is a terrorist.
How many thousands of people has the U.S. released with no further action after detaining them for months - and in the case of Gitmo, years? Do you think they are doing that because they are nice guys, because they are soft on terrorists - or because they can't prove anything even under the less-strict requirements of military tribunals?
Nobody with any sense is arguing that the military needs to act like the cops, get warrants, have probable cause, yada-yada-yada, in order to detain someone. This is a combat operation, after all. Deciding to detain really is a "grab em all and let God (or higher authority) sort them out."
I am saying is that the United States has long had standards for treatment of detainees. My reasons for not wanting those standards weakened has everything to do with tactics and long-term goals, and has nothing whatsoever to do with sympathy for terrorists or concern for innocent Iraqis.
It has a everything to do with the poor dumb son-of-a-bitches* on the ground in Iraq - OUR poor dumb son-of-a-bitches. Remember them? They are the ones who are going to have to face these guys for the next couple years, since the Iraqi faux Army certainly won't be able to do it. There is enough fuel on the fire (and weapons left laying about for the taking on account of fighting with a piss-poor but politically expedient battle plan) already - no point in adding more.
(* Timon, before you get your panties in a knot and throw a hissy-fit, I'm paraphrasing that noted American leftist, General George Patton).
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Originally posted by rhymer@Dec 9 2004, 04:42 PM First off. .... Secondly. .... Thirdly... etc.
This is what I´m talking about ... endless rhetoric. No WMD, No Al Qaeda, Imperialisme Bad etc. - It doesn´t matter... facts are that Saddam is gone (no need to fear WMD anymore), terrorists showed up at the battle ground (there are plenty of Al Qaeda links now), there will be elections (democracy and freedom have arrived).
So whatever reason you might have had to be against the war before - they have been outdated. The goals have changed to fit the new situation - its called to be adaptable, the basic thing you need to survive (if you belive in Darwin). Endless rhetoric is not survival - its what the fundamentalist islamists are doing, and they are losing.
25 million iraqis are getting ready to become part of the world community again, and in the west we keep debating the iraq war like it could be undone, when in the real world there is only ONE way and thats forward - that is what we should be debating. How we get iraq back on its feet, how we secure that those 25 million people will prosper. Forget the reason(s) to why we invaded Iraq - start thinking what we can do when we are there!
Quote:
We all want the world to be a safer place, but this is totally the wrong way to go about it.
Ofcourse there are other ways, but you need to debate those ways instead of trying to blame. You can not make other people see your visions, if you never talk about them....
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Dec 9 2004, 05:08 PM Anyone who resorts to calling someone a socialist because they oppose the war in Iraq is on really shakey fucking ground criticizing anyone's rhetoric.
I would like to offer an apology to all who are socialist here at Oprano - when I said "a mere sight of a messed up socialist", then I did not mean that all socialists are messed up. I deeply regret the hurt this situation has caused the socialist community, and will visit a socialist country soon, so I can help with the socialist tax burden
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Originally posted by Mike AI@Dec 7 2004, 03:29 PM Honestly I do not think most Americans care. I know I don't. I think its a non-issue, and for the media to get in a huff over this it just gives the enemy more propaganda.
The stupid arguement that this will lead to worse treatment of prisoners that the Islamacists take is a joke. We already know what they will do.
What is going on is hardly abuse. It is unsavory, but no one is getting their heads cut off. War is a dirty business.
as long as their is 100% surity, no reasonable doubt whatsover, that it IS a terrorist. None of this interigation bullshit. I mean absolute certainty, in writing, that the abused person in question is a terrorist, and has Killed in the name of terror. I would not have a problem with a more extreme punishment. They are not citizens of this country, and are not afforded the rights of a citizen. However, if the person in question has gained citizenship, then he should be treated with all the civil liberties of a convicted felon, and should receive an appropriate sentance for his crime.
Eye for an Eye is bullshit. America is better than that.
Originally posted by Rolo@Dec 9 2004, 08:49 PM I would like to offer an apology to all who are socialist here at Oprano - when I said "a mere sight of a messed up socialist", then I did not mean that all socialists are messed up. I deeply regret the hurt this situation has caused the socialist community, and will visit a socialist country soon, so I can help with the socialist tax burden
Ah ... a funny.
I don't give a fuck if you offend socialists ... don't care for them much myself.
However, assuming that someone who opposes the war - or the way the war is being conducted - is automatically a socialist is no different assuming that everyone who supports the war is a neofacist tool of the imperialist war machine.
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Dec 9 2004, 07:56 PM is a neofacist tool of the imperialist war machine.
Of course your can belive and say that - you have the right to a different opinion as long as you use the tools provided by democracy - including freedom of speech and thought... democracy is the right to disagree
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Not only do I not care about abuse of terrorists, I’m not sure I care much about any private citizens who goes to Iraq to drive trucks or press their religious beliefs in the guise of "relief", fucking vultures. In my obtuse and degenerate mind, there is no "hazard pay" or ideology that could stand up to the oppty of getting your head liberated from your body.
Back to the terrorists...I think we should dress them as powerpuff girls and teletubbies, etc and make them compete in games and tests of skill. Sample trivia question, "Which shitty little pipeline significant country did the US just walk into and take over?"
Give em 30 seconds, if they don't answer, answer incorrectly or impolitely, they get their testicals shocked...simple, good, wholesome American fun.
12-08-2004
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