CCBill drops wms....

[softball]

From another board.....

On behalf of Ron Cadwell, President, CCBill:

For years you’ve known CCBill as an organization full of innovation and drive. Our history not only reflects the growth we have achieved, it also (and perhaps more importantly) is marked by the levels of trust you have placed in us. Many have grown right along with us, and we are extremely proud to continue to serve as a solid, steady online payment processor for our valued clients.

Over the past few months, CCBill has staged the launch of its new affiliate marketing product, Web Marketing Service (WMS). Our intent for this expanded system was, and remains, to further improve the functionality and performance of the affiliate marketing initiatives of our clients and their affiliates, without the added cost of a third party solution.

In recent weeks, much has been said about WMS. Due to a string of issues, some of the feedback we have received both publicly and directly has been negative and I would like to apologize to our WMS clients and their affiliates who took the time and resources to move over to this new system only to be disappointed in the results.

With this apology, I would also like to offer clarity into these issues, and share our findings. First and foremost, the core of the product works. While it has had some issues and still does (as with any new product launch), we are confident it functions as intended and will be the future of our affiliate software. The majority of issues seen to date that have been discussed in public forums and in private conversations originated from programs that were converted from our Original Affiliate System to WMS. While these conversion issues did not affect payouts to any new programs and/or affiliates that joined WMS directly, the conversion process was not handled in a manner that we and the market expect from CCBill, and mistakes were made.

In my mind, it is beyond unfortunate that with this conversion, we did not live up to our historically high Quality Assurance and implementation standards. The bugs and issues that stemmed from the conversion are unacceptable and inexcusable.

While we have corrected most of the mistakes/bugs and worked with affected clients to credit any funds as appropriate, we have lost the confidence of these users and have decided it is best to re-enable the Original Affiliate System for them, and give them the choice to convert to WMS in the future.

As of today, we have addressed and resolved a large amount of known WMS issues, and in the weeks and months to come, it will become our mission to work harder and smarter in an effort to regain the trust of our valued clients and their affiliates.

The first step in this process will be the re-enabling of the Original Affiliate System to each affiliate that previously converted to WMS. On Monday, March 8, 2010, at approximately 11:00 a.m. MST, anyone that had converted will have the Original Affiliate System re-enabled. It is important to note that with the re-enabling, all traffic going through WMS is still going to get counted, links will still function, and applicable sales will still be credited.

Simultaneously with this deployment, we will contact clients that migrated to WMS individually, and begin an extensive evaluation, redesign, and development of the “WMS Affiliate Conversion Process.” Only after a granular Quality Assurance and testing cycle, will we once again provide the option to convert affiliates from the Original CCBill Affiliate System, over to the feature-rich WMS System.

These initiatives are not a departure from WMS, or an abandoning of its toolset. The core of the product does function properly and we are committed to making it work for all of our valued clients and their affiliates. Rather, CCBill clients and their affiliates will now have access to both the new feature-rich WMS System and the simplified, tried and true Original CCBill Affiliate System.

We will allow clients to run both systems in parallel, enabling their affiliates to choose which solution they would like to utilize based on their needs. Correspondingly, in the future we will let affiliates choose if they would like to be converted to WMS, rather than require clients to select one system or the other on behalf of their affiliates.

It is our belief that WMS will become the system of choice for both clients and their affiliates, due to its enhanced functionalities and features. We believe in the product. However, it will remain up to clients and affiliates to make that choice. And up to us to regain their trust.

Additional details as to how the re-enabling will work, and what it means to both WMS clients and their affiliates for program settings, payouts, and reporting can now be found within the CCBill Web Admin News area, or by contacting your CCBill Sales or Client Support Representative. Our Client Support Director, Lloyd Briggs, is able to provide additional assistance at lloyd@ccbill.com, as is our Corporate Advocate, Paul Kluzak, at paulk@ccbill.com.

For 12 years, we at CCBill have taken pride in earning your business and trust with unparalleled dedication to our clients, exemplary service and innovative products. We will learn from these conversion mistakes so that today and into the future, we can restore and maintain that trust once again.

Thanks,

Ron C.

[gonzo]

THe word is that WMS was a shit stain too.
THank god this new project is a couple of weeks out before billing integration so we missed out.

[softball]

Originally Posted by gonzo

THe word is that WMS was a shit stain too.
THank god this new project is a couple of weeks out before billing integration so we missed out.

Yeah, we dodged that bullet but....a guy that I know to be honest and reliable, noticed his aff sales were way, way down. He signed up through an aff programme and the sale never showed up. He got in touch with CCBill and they found twelve more that never appeared as well. He now thinks that perhaps thousands of dollars have been "lost".
So, I suppose the question is, where is the money? I am not sure if he bought into wms or not. Things that make you go hmmmm.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Yeah, we dodged that bullet but....a guy that I know to be honest and reliable, noticed his aff sales were way, way down. He signed up through an aff programme and the sale never showed up. He got in touch with CCBill and they found twelve more that never appeared as well. He now thinks that perhaps thousands of dollars have been "lost".
So, I suppose the question is, where is the money? I am not sure if he bought into wms or not. Things that make you go hmmmm.

I know a lot of people were complaining about CCBill sales in general being down.
I figured they had the scrub turned way up on anything that wasnt a rebill due to all the bank and cross sale heat.

I can tell you that a non recurring sale seems to be just fine and easier accepted into the system.

[sarettah]

Nice, professional note.

[softball]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Nice, professional note.

huh?

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

huh?

The release from CCBill. It was done properly. He didnt go on blaming rogue programmers, etc.

He took responsibility, outlined the issues and said what they were going to do.

imho of course

[MikeSouth]

Hey I know CCBill is pretty muich the only game in town but exactly how much faith can you really have in a billing company that cant manage to do direct deposit?

[softball]

Originally Posted by MikeSouth

Hey I know CCBill is pretty muich the only game in town but exactly how much faith can you really have in a billing company that cant manage to do direct deposit?

CCBill is taking on the chin on a ton of boards at the moment.

[Peedy]

I never moved over to WMS, looks like that was a good move.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by sarettah

The release from CCBill. It was done properly. He didnt go on blaming rogue programmers, etc.

He took responsibility, outlined the issues and said what they were going to do.

imho of course

I agree but then you and I both know this should be the norm for a company which it isnt.
I guess it makes me wonder why a company the size and captial of CCBill hire pros to come in and do this right the first time.

[Cleo]

I remember CCBill talking about coming out with, I think it was CCBillPaul, something new a long time ago over at GG&J and ignoring the negative comments many people made about it.

[Toby]

The whole approach was wrong, coming out with something that requires existing clients to migrate is just asking for trouble, even if everything works.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I agree but then you and I both know this should be the norm for a company which it isnt.
I guess it makes me wonder why a company the size and captial of CCBill hire pros to come in and do this right the first time.

Why would we expect that from CCBill?

We don't get it from Microsoft, Toyota, GM or any of the other really big industry leaders outside of adult internet.

Shit happens. Even in the best designed systems implementation can go wrong.

The willingness to back off from the decision and take responsibillity is something you see less and less in this world from companies, governments and individuals.

In a pass the buck world it is nice to see a company listen to their customers even if it took a while to clear the wax out of their ears.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Toby

The whole approach was wrong, coming out with something that requires existing clients to migrate is just asking for trouble, even if everything works.

How do you upgrade without requiring some sort of migration? I guess we could all just run on 1999 technology for ever or something.

A well planned implementation and migration should cause customers as little pain as possible but if you have introduced new data possibillities, well that data has to come from somewhere and often the customer is the only one who can accurately provide it. So that requires their interaction during the process.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by sarettah

How do you upgrade without requiring some sort of migration? I guess we could all just run on 1999 technology for ever or something.

A well planned implementation and migration should cause customers as little pain as possible but if you have introduced new data possibillities, well that data has to come from somewhere and often the customer is the only one who can accurately provide it. So that requires their interaction during the process.

You either add the requested features to the existing software or you integrate the existing tracking into the new system so that new signups aren't necessary and old links continue to track within the new backend.

[softball]

Originally Posted by sarettah

How do you upgrade without requiring some sort of migration? I guess we could all just run on 1999 technology for ever or something.

A well planned implementation and migration should cause customers as little pain as possible but if you have introduced new data possibillities, well that data has to come from somewhere and often the customer is the only one who can accurately provide it. So that requires their interaction during the process.

Sarettah, its perfectly clear you have no idea and don't actually use ccbill or any billing company day to day.
Dude, you are really, really old school and it is showing..... not in a good way. All this Serge Oprano crap you have been posting just confirms it. You really need to understand that this biz just ain't what it used to be. You can hold your breath until you turn blue, but the world inexplicably just keeps turning. Funny how that works. You know what we call HD TV nowadays?...television. We have electric cars and Windows 7. Get used to it and stop acting like a dinosaur.
Oh yeah, and nobody cares if you talked to Serge today. Get it? Most don't even know who you or Serge are. I have seen this shit come and go too many times. You have too, I am sure. But now its your turn.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Sarettah, its perfectly clear you have no idea and don't actually use ccbill or any billing company day to day.
Dude, you are really, really old school and it is showing..... not in a good way. All this Serge Oprano crap you have been posting just confirms it. You really need to understand that this biz just ain't what it used to be. You can hold your breath until you turn blue, but the world inexplicably just keeps turning. Funny how that works. You know what we call HD TV nowadays?...television. We have electric cars and Windows 7. Get used to it and stop acting like a dinosaur.
Oh yeah, and nobody cares if you talked to Serge today. Get it? Most don't even know who you or Serge are. I have seen this shit come and go too many times. You have too, I am sure. But now its your turn.

I did not mention Serge in this thread or on this board in a long fucking time.

I use CCBILL day to day as an affiliate, not as a program owner. I do not deal with their backend. I put up my links and try to get people to click them.

However, I deal with upgrading technology on a day to day basis.

I mad a simple comment on the professionalism of the release.

I then made comment on the difficulties associated with any data migration.

I did not pretend to know anything about the wms backend or the difficulties that program owners are having dealing with it.

Where the fuck do you come off with a fucking attack assfuck?

Because you don't like that I am still friends with Serge? Because I asked him to be unbanned on a board that was never planned to be anything other than a well targetted joke?

What exactly is your issue this fucking time?

Oh fuck it. Apparently I know nothing and have nothing to offer so I am out of this thread.

You all know exactly how to program stuff and know exactly how to create complex systems so just go write your own billing back end and replace ccbill since all of this is just so fucking easy to do and get right every fucking time.

Later peeps

[RawAlex]

Any good migration has a way to handle "old" data and "old" linking. If a program migrates from old ccbill to new ccbill, they should be able to track the links and reassign them as needed. Not having a feature like this is painful for affiliates.

I should point out though that at least in the short run, this can be good for program owners, who can treat all that old ccbill traffic as "no referal" traffic and enjoy the sales. I know it isn't most people's intentions, but I am sure more than one program profited from this changeover.

A lookup and conversion table isn't a big deal, CCBill already controls the traffic (because the old system clicks through them), I cannot imagine why they wouldn't have a translation service. Perhaps it is something that program owners don't care about, so CCBill never considered it.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

..who can treat all that old ccbill traffic as "no referal" traffic and enjoy the sales. I know it isn't most people's intentions, but I am sure more than one program profited from this changeover...

Not the case here at all, both systems were still functioning even after a program migrated, the two were just not integrated.

[softball]

Originally Posted by sarettah

I did not mention Serge in this thread or on this board in a long fucking time.

I use CCBILL day to day as an affiliate, not as a program owner. I do not deal with their backend. I put up my links and try to get people to click them.

However, I deal with upgrading technology on a day to day basis.

I mad a simple comment on the professionalism of the release.

I then made comment on the difficulties associated with any data migration.

I did not pretend to know anything about the wms backend or the difficulties that program owners are having dealing with it.

Where the fuck do you come off with a fucking attack assfuck?

Because you don't like that I am still friends with Serge? Because I asked him to be unbanned on a board that was never planned to be anything other than a well targetted joke?

What exactly is your issue this fucking time?

Oh fuck it. Apparently I know nothing and have nothing to offer so I am out of this thread.

You all know exactly how to program stuff and know exactly how to create complex systems so just go write your own billing back end and replace ccbill since all of this is just so fucking easy to do and get right every fucking time.

Later peeps

I don't have an issue with you, but you just seem to be on some kind of rant right out of nowhere. It always seems that when you rant and get called on it, somehow you get around to calling it a joke. I don't care if Serge is unbanned....at all. I don't care if you are friends with Serge. That is your business. I just can't figure out why you are on such a tear.

and as for

now exactly how to program stuff and know exactly how to create complex systems so just go write your own billing back end and replace ccbill since all of this is just so fucking easy to do and get right every fucking time.

That is a non starter. We pay people like ccbill to get that right. It ain't free. When it comes to money, it has to be right. Kinda like we pay pilots to get it right all the time.