Anyone paying attention to the immigration debate in Wsahington this week?

[TheEnforcer]

Any of you political types paying attention to the debate in Washinbgton DC to the immigration debate? If so, where do you stand on the issue? Are you more in line with the president, pro-business GOP, and dems or are you more in line with the righ wing tough enforcement close the border types?

It's a tough political issue for the parties and is really causing rifts in the GOP as you get the pro-business wing listening to their corporate buddies and wanting to keep the cheap labor flowing and avoid heavy fines/prosecution for using illegals and the close it down, nail businesses, and deport immediately crowd in the GOP's right wing. The dems meanwhile are siutting back and letting the GOP bicker among themselves hoping they wound each other seriously and cause a big rift between the two groups they can exploit.

Both sides have to contend with the reality that the latin community is one of the fastest growing blocks of voters in the country.

I'll surprise most people here by saying I am more in line with the tough stance right wingers on this issue. The biggest stumbling block they face is the reality of 12 million or so illegals already here and the massive probelm it creates if you want to try and ship them out so as not to reward their law breaking behavior.

[Inabon]

Like it or not the USA has to realize that it is an immigrant built country.

and to try to close borders for "americans" is just hypocracy.

and they also have to realize that even though they rule the world (or a great part of it) they do not rule their "own land" piss off enough immigrants and depending on the state big companies will loose money in boycot.

[TheEnforcer]

I do realize we are an immigrant society and I have absolutely ZERO problems with people who come here legally. I welcome all who come here as a part of the legal process of gaining citizenship. The more the merrier. But I don't like people being rewarded for breaking the law. It's a slap in the face of every person who took the time to apply and go through the legal process for gaining citizenship. Their hard work and doing things the right way means NOTHING then.

[Inabon]

i agree... i should have been more explicit. law brakers fuck them the rest that got caught in the middle of burocracy ok.

i do not like the fact that immigrants work illegally but the fact of the matter is that they do the work no one else does.

i have been through all that paperwork here in panama and let me tell you i know how it feels for immigrants over in the USA you get the questioning the looks the long waits

it sucks

but it has to be done.

the only way you can close borders and make some sense of that law would be if all "americans" would work on the shitty jobs and leave no jobs left for immigrants.

In panama happens the opposite the cool jobs or money making ones are held by immigrants (mostly businesses) because no one has the iniciative.

well we are human after all.

i just say that it is kind of stupid to try to close borders with a law instead of promoting work for the locals so that immigrants have no where to go.

[TheEnforcer]

Well, I'm not proposing "closing the bvorders" for the purpose of stopping immigration. I actually like the idea of increased LEGAL immigration coupled with a guest worker program that could lead to permanent staus. But the borders have to be virtually shut down for that to work and for the people who use those programs rewarded for doing so. I'd love to have you here if you want Inabon!! The border is also a HUGE security issue as well, which is why many want it "closed" because if millions of illegal immigrants can come right through so can any Al Qaeda/terrorists as well.

[Inabon]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

Well, I'm not proposing "closing the bvorders" for the purpose of stopping immigration. I actually like the idea of increased LEGAL immigration coupled with a guest worker program that could lead to permanent staus. But the borders have to be virtually shut down for that to work and for the people who use those programs rewarded for doing so. I'd love to have you here if you want Inabon!! The border is also a HUGE security issue as well, which is why many want it "closed" because if millions of illegal immigrants can come right through so can any Al Qaeda/terrorists as well.

i know the issue i lived in miami (errrrmmmmnnnn cuba??? )

i see your point and i agree

[Mike AI]

I am pro immigration, but it should be orderly and documented. This protects the country and the immigrants. There should be no amnesty - people should not be rewarded for breaking the law.

We need to clamp down on boarders to prevent illegal immigration, set up a modern system for legal immigration and guest workers and we should also be recruiting immigrants with Master Degrees and PhDs, especially in the hard sciences.

I do not understand why this is even an issue - just like everything this is a legacy we get from past politicans who refuse to handle issues head on and just put temp fixes to push the problem back years for the next generation of politicians to deal with.

The problem is none have the courage to do the right thing, so they keep pushing problems like this off until we have a catasrophe - then normally we have a backlash from going to far the other way.

Very frustrating. I hate all politicians!

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Mike AI

I am pro immigration, but it should be orderly and documented. This protects the country and the immigrants. There should be no amnesty - people should not be rewarded for breaking the law.

We need to clamp down on boarders to prevent illegal immigration, set up a modern system for legal immigration and guest workers and we should also be recruiting immigrants with Master Degrees and PhDs, especially in the hard sciences.

I do not understand why this is even an issue - just like everything this is a legacy we get from past politicans who refuse to handle issues head on and just put temp fixes to push the problem back years for the next generation of politicians to deal with.

The problem is none have the courage to do the right thing, so they keep pushing problems like this off until we have a catasrophe - then normally we have a backlash from going to far the other way.

Very frustrating. I hate all politicians!

Like the guy said on the daily show last night. The guest worker progams is how the French are trying to handle the immigrant problem and look at how well it is working for them. We do immigration better than anyone else in the world does or ever has, why would we look to the Fench as an example of how to solve this.

[Inabon]

Originally Posted by Mike AI

I am pro immigration, but it should be orderly and documented. This protects the country and the immigrants. There should be no amnesty - people should not be rewarded for breaking the law.

We need to clamp down on boarders to prevent illegal immigration, set up a modern system for legal immigration and guest workers and we should also be recruiting immigrants with Master Degrees and PhDs, especially in the hard sciences.

I do not understand why this is even an issue - just like everything this is a legacy we get from past politicans who refuse to handle issues head on and just put temp fixes to push the problem back years for the next generation of politicians to deal with.

The problem is none have the courage to do the right thing, so they keep pushing problems like this off until we have a catasrophe - then normally we have a backlash from going to far the other way.

Very frustrating. I hate all politicians!

well mike i think this is the second time i agree with you

you have a valid point and yes i understand it needs to be done if done right.

you have a good idea of what the system should do i just hope the ones passing the law can do it like what you expressed here.

[Inabon]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Like the guy said on the daily show last night. The guest worker progams is how the French are trying to handle the immigrant problem and look at how well it is working for them. We do immigration better than anyone else in the world does or ever has, why would we look to the Fench as an example of how to solve this.

i would not so far as saying the best but yeah you have "controls"


i changed my mind on this subject after debating with TE i understand your point and i agree specially after going through the immigration process to be able to work in Panama as a US citizen.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by Inabon

i do not like the fact that immigrants work illegally but the fact of the matter is that they do the work no one else does.

Which is a fallacy.

There was an article recently in the ATL paper about construction companies going bankrupt. The illegals are willing to work for lower (and illegal) pay so the companies that hire them can outbid the companies that hire legals.

What's going to be real interesting is when the legal Mexicans start losing jobs to the illegal Mexicans.

[Inabon]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Which is a fallacy.

There was an article recently in the ATL paper about construction companies going bankrupt. The illegals are willing to work for lower (and illegal) pay so the companies that hire them can outbid the companies that hire legals.

What's going to be real interesting is when the legal Mexicans start losing jobs to the illegal Mexicans.

yes i think i know what you are talking about

about mexicans you just wait a lot of them think they are more american than bush and they will start to bitch about it.

that is one bad thing about a lot of latinos they forget where they came from after getting a green card.

they do not help solve the problem they cause and once they are not causing it they bash on people that cause it.

yeah yeah i know not every latino just my 2 cents

[Vendzilla]

they are here illegally, by their actions they are breaking the law, so how do some people want to reward them? By making them Legal law breakers, here's the thing, they can't have a SSN so they aren't paying taxes, make them legal and they get the ssn card and then they pay taxes? No, the poor in this country with families don't pay taxes, they do get big tax returns though. So if we accept them and make them legal, we would have to adjust the taxes to be able to afford it, thus hurting those that are legal already by taking away from them, don't go after the Illegal aliens, go after those that hire them, make them want to go back!

[TheEnforcer]

They could solve the issue and force a lot of illegals home if they regularly arrested anf fined companies and deported illegal workers on a regular basis but they don't want to piss off potential voters in both communtities.

[punkerbarbie]

the only thing i see happening if the immigration laws pass is inflation... we'll still have to pay taxes and our government will still mis use the money from taxes and we'll still be assed out. i bet this is a huge distraction from something else. i wouldnt be suprised if months later another law is passed and we are outraged cause we spent too much time on this debate.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

They could solve the issue and force a lot of illegals home if they regularly arrested anf fined companies and deported illegal workers on a regular basis but they don't want to piss off potential voters in both communtities.

...both communtities

You got tities on the brain?

[TheEnforcer]

Hiya Punker!!

Nice to see you here!!