The biggest difference between the business now

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by sarettah

I think he means

Each board a sponsor advertises on gets:

The exact same banners
The exact same sticky threads
The exact same message

Rather than the sponsor customizing their message out to match the population of the board.

I think

I've seen a few rare cases where a sponsor will target something specific on a board, something unique to that community, and it really and truly does increase interest. These boards ARE communities, and even in mainstream advertising, you don't advertise the same product to all communities the same way. Check out the flyers in a poorer area of a city as opposed to a higher scale area, or see the advertising in the Wall St. Journal as opposed to the local news rag. Each of these webmaster communities really has it's own demographic and you need to take the time to figure out what that is and appeal to it.

It really all just makes damn good advertising sense.

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Don't know if it was you asking or me threatening to get nekkid again but whatever it was worked

Whales like to use stealth technology. They can afford it.

[slavdogg]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Nope , didn't mean the old ones that never change anything and are really just taking in the rebills.

name names?
do i know them ?
why am i not doing biz with them ?
if i dont know them, they're not important enough ..

i highly doubt u can name few programs like that you're referring to Nick

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by slavdogg

name names?
do i know them ?
why am i not doing biz with them ?
if i dont know them, they're not important enough ..

i highly doubt u can name few programs like that you're referring to Nick

Gambling , pharma and financial affiliate programs.

[slavdogg]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Gambling , pharma and financial affiliate programs.

no doubt, there are dozens of programs like that in those markets
some legal, some not. I assumed you meant adult programs.

now are you running any of those programs ??
hit me up if u do or if u want to recommend them to us.
otherwise why post about em.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by slavdogg

no doubt, there are dozens of programs like that in those markets
some legal, some not. I assumed you meant adult programs.

now are you running any of those programs ??
hit me up if u do or if u want to recommend them to us.
otherwise why post about em.

Nope I don't have any proggies at all.

Where do you ge that I'm recommending them from this post???

""Interesting...

I know a few affiliate programs that you will never see advertising.

Never see someones banner in there sig.

And must pay out fortunes every week.

And all they tell you is "here's the url..here is the stats page"

No other help at all."""

[Vick]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

However they don't want to chime in on business because:

a.) no fucker listens..
b.) they will get in a moronic piss with someone without a clue
c.) there comments will be lost in the 100 "great programs" , "Awesome" "congratulation" posts...

Or why I don't post new ideas .....

.... they'll get copied soon enough without me giving the blue print somewhere

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Vick

Or why I don't post new ideas .....

.... they'll get copied soon enough without me giving the blue print somewhere

The most valid reason there is..

[Biggy]

slavik, i know of one adult program like that.
hit me up on ICQ for the details and I am not bullshitting if you are interested.
My ICQ: 110850739

[Osiris]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

I'm not into goth chicks..in fact I want to punch them...but that is neither here nor there.

I just realised one of the things I do when I find an unfamilar affiliate program is go I look to see if they list who the people involved are, with a bio.

If they don't I don't join.

I look to see if there is a phone number contact and a physical address that looks like a real office.If there isn't one , I don't join.

My reasoning is it appears they are being run out of a back bedroom somewhere.

Would you trust someone who you have no info about , who seem to be undercapitalised to owe you 50k? I wouldn't.

Also I don't and will not join a Rev Share program.Most whales won't unless they know the person well.

If I see Rev share solely ( No paypaersignup option) I again suspect the program is undercapitalised.

Just some general thoughts..

Ok, back to what I was going to say, some of at least. I forgot everything I did have..



When you're right, you're right. We don't have an external office outside of the house, and we are way under capitalised. I believe the guy that is "supposed" to be our partner does it the same way and has a successful revshare program from what I know. Again, my definition of success and yours is probably entirely different.

Why don't whales like revshare? If the sites convert/retain members that's long term income. I thought that would be well accepted by people that like to make money, guess I was wrong?


Nowhere near what I had typed out yesterday, oh well. Maybe it'll come back to me as we continue.

[TheEnforcer]

Why don't people like rev share as much as PPS? It's a simple little ecomnomic concept called the time value of money as shown here.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/082703.asp

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Osiris

Ok, back to what I was going to say, some of at least. I forgot everything I did have..



When you're right, you're right. We don't have an external office outside of the house, and we are way under capitalised. I believe the guy that is "supposed" to be our partner does it the same way and has a successful revshare program from what I know. Again, my definition of success and yours is probably entirely different.

Why don't whales like revshare? If the sites convert/retain members that's long term income. I thought that would be well accepted by people that like to make money, guess I was wrong?


Nowhere near what I had typed out yesterday, oh well. Maybe it'll come back to me as we continue.

Some might like revshare.

Personally I don't.

It means trusting the sites processor. ( not a risk I want to take)

It also means trusting the ability of the site operator to retain , update his sites etc etc. ( not a risk I want to take)

Instead of sending to Revshare programs basically back in the day I thought fuck it.

I'll build my own paysites.

That worked pretty well too.

I mean from a whales point of view...

so what does it take to build your own paysite with great content and a half decent design...4k? hmmm hire your own designer and build 15 different front ends all drawing from the same content pool....

[Osiris]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Some might like revshare.

Personally I don't.

It means trusting the sites processor. ( not a risk I want to take)

It also means trusting the ability of the site operator to retain , update his sites etc etc. ( not a risk I want to take)

Instead of sending to Revshare programs basically back in the day I thought fuck it.

I'll build my own paysites.

That worked pretty well too.

I mean from a whales point of view...

so what does it take to build your own paysite with great content and a half decent design...4k? hmmm hire your own designer and build 15 different front ends all drawing from the same content pool....

Alright, I see what you're saying.


TheEnforcer, it's understandable in the example to take the 1 time payment of 10,000 vs. annual payments of 2k over a 5 year period, just an example. But it doesn't quite work like that with revshare. With revshare, as long as the site converts and you can build up and maintain 10k a month, that's 10k per month for as long as the site rebills.

[MorganGrayson]

I appreciated this thread. I already knew several ways of looking at a sponsor program, with regards to the TOS, contact information, availability and quality of marketing tools, etc., but I appreciated the glimpse into "undercapitilization," which was something that frankly, I hadn't considered.

The all important "yes, but will I get paid?" question.

Sending your traffic, especially if it's precious and you can't afford to make a mistake, to a sponsor who can't afford to set up a professional office does indeed sound a little iffy. Everyone has to start somewhere, true, but not with my traffic.

I liked the enumeration of the strikes against RevShare, Nick. Thank you.

[Osiris]

Nick, wouldn't PPS be the same in the sense of processors? I mean, if a PPS only has one processor, and that processor went out of business, that sponsor might not be able to pay. Didn't this happen with a few PPS programs before?

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Osiris

Nick, wouldn't PPS be the same in the sense of processors? I mean, if a PPS only has one processor, and that processor went out of business, that sponsor might not be able to pay. Didn't this happen with a few PPS programs before?

It does happen.

So you lose a weeks traffic.....

With a Revshare you have lost the major profit element you hoped to earn by taking the long money

[Nickatilynx]

""TheEnforcer, it's understandable in the example to take the 1 time payment of 10,000 vs. annual payments of 2k over a 5 year period, just an example. But it doesn't quite work like that with revshare. With revshare, as long as the site converts and you can build up and maintain 10k a month, that's 10k per month for as long as the site rebills. ""

Whats your average earn per join?

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Osiris

Alright, I see what you're saying.


TheEnforcer, it's understandable in the example to take the 1 time payment of 10,000 vs. annual payments of 2k over a 5 year period, just an example. But it doesn't quite work like that with revshare. With revshare, as long as the site converts and you can build up and maintain 10k a month, that's 10k per month for as long as the site rebills.

Ok, lets take a look at that then. How many signups would it take to get to that 10K/month rebill status? I don't feel like doing the math but it would be a shitload of them to be sure and it would take quite a bit of time. While building that money up someone could be sending the same signups to a PPS and getting much more up front money with which they can put back into their business to grow it faster than they could than using a rev share. Don't gte me wrong, as I think it's a good idea to have at least one or two in the mix just in case, but PPS allows you to grow up your business at a much quicker pace than a rev share does.

[Osiris]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

""TheEnforcer, it's understandable in the example to take the 1 time payment of 10,000 vs. annual payments of 2k over a 5 year period, just an example. But it doesn't quite work like that with revshare. With revshare, as long as the site converts and you can build up and maintain 10k a month, that's 10k per month for as long as the site rebills. ""

Whats your average earn per join?

PPS: $35
Revshare: $10-$15



Enforcer, good points!

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Osiris

PPS: $35
Revshare: $10-$15



Enforcer, good points!

I think he's talking about what your average TOTAL value for a signup is for rev share. IE- over the life of your average recurring member how much money do you make off of them?

[Osiris]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

I think he's talking about what your average TOTAL value for a signup is for rev share. IE- over the life of your average recurring member how much money do you make off of them?

Derrrrr! LOL

Ok, depending on the site a member usually stays on average 3 months. So 30.00-45.00

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Osiris

Derrrrr! LOL

Ok, depending on the site a member usually stays on average 3 months. So 30.00-45.00

OK sparky....

LOL

You do the math....

I can have $35..RIGHT NOW! No risk. You can go bankrupt the day after my wire comes in... ;-))

Or I can wait 3 months to collect between $5 LESS or $10 more....

Hmmm...wonder what anyone in their right fucking mind would pick...

;-))

[Nickatilynx]

You are new to this huh???

..let me help ya a tad...

""Recent test we have done show that the average earn to a revshare webmaster would be $57.84 over the life of the member"

;-))

[Osiris]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

You are new to this huh???

..let me help ya a tad...

""Recent test we have done show that the average earn to a revshare webmaster would be $57.84 over the life of the member"

;-))

Mind saying what program that's with?


Maybe I'm seeing things wrong. But I see no harm in building up a nice recurring, month after month 5-10k income. It may take a little while to get there. But once it's there, it's there if the members you get stay. This depends on the sponsor also.

I like PPS, I'm just trying to understand the beef people have with revshare..

[TheEnforcer]

It's not so much a beef as it is as that a business can be built faster under PPS with less risk.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Osiris

Mind saying what program that's with?


Maybe I'm seeing things wrong. But I see no harm in building up a nice recurring, month after month 5-10k income. It may take a little while to get there. But once it's there, it's there if the members you get stay. This depends on the sponsor also.

I like PPS, I'm just trying to understand the beef people have with revshare..

ummmm it isn't from a program..its what you SHOULD be saying about the one you are marketing ..because you just said on Revshare I may make less per join than from your PPS LOL

;-))))

and by your own figures you are saying I will earn 30 -45 per join..on YOUR revshare model....but it will take me three months to get that return

I'd take the $35 now...

[Osiris]

I'm starting to see the light..

[sudden]

If a program can make $55-60 from a signup on average, there's going to be programs that pay $35 per signup upfront - why take revshare?

The only reason I can think of, would be if there was a program that converted outrageously high - and only offered revshare. But chances
are if they did convert that well, it wouldn't take long for them to arrange for a funds reserve to be able to do upfront PPS.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sudden

If a program can make $55-60 from a signup on average, there's going to be programs that pay $35 per signup upfront - why take revshare?

The only reason I can think of, would be if there was a program that converted outrageously high - and only offered revshare. But chances
are if they did convert that well, it wouldn't take long for them to arrange for a funds reserve to be able to do upfront PPS.

You've been getting my skype's? Need wiring info.

Thanks mate!

[Jeremy]

Only using revshare is like *only* using console-free links.

Revshare sign-ups make $28 - $30 over the life of a member.

Add in that a $30 full-price sale is much harder to convert than a $4.95 trial (which may be evened out by the PPS shave) and it becomes clear that PPS is the only way to go.

There may be the odd site / program where you can make more than $30 on revshare, but the relative cost of finding them makes it prohibitive.

[Timon]

Originally Posted by sudden

If a program can make $55-60 from a signup on average, there's going to be programs that pay $35 per signup upfront - why take revshare?

The only reason I can think of, would be if there was a program that converted outrageously high - and only offered revshare. But chances
are if they did convert that well, it wouldn't take long for them to arrange for a funds reserve to be able to do upfront PPS.

The one advantage of revhare is that Epoch is much better at counting than most paysite owners are

[voodooman]

Originally Posted by Timon

The one advantage of revhare is that Epoch is much better at counting than most paysite owners are

Ok, here you got the THAN correct, but you failed at revhare which I believe you meant revshare.

[Timon]

Originally Posted by voodooman

Ok, here you got the THAN correct, but you failed at revhare which I believe you meant revshare.

Originally Posted by Lisa

Damn you're slipping!

4 errors in that one sentence and you only found one?!?
You missed you're, loser, it's and off.

ooohhh the burn, the pain.... I can't watch this humiliation any longer...

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by voodooman

Ok, here you got the THAN correct, but you failed at revhare which I believe you meant revshare.

I think he actually meant revHAIR, which is the 50-50 (60-40?) split Drav and Sarettah have done with their follicles.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Timon

The one advantage of revhare is that Epoch is much better at counting than most paysite owners are

If the join gets to epoch

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

I think he actually meant revHAIR, which is the 50-50 (60-40?) split Drav and Sarettah have done with their follicles.

WHOA! And Jeremy burns for two!



I love it when usually polite, articulate men come slamming out with a burn. It's sexy as hell, frankly!

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

I think he actually meant revHAIR, which is the 50-50 (60-40?) split Drav and Sarettah have done with their follicles.

Jeremy, I used to like you at one time.

[Jeremy]

Morgan: *burp* *scratch* *fart* huh, wassat? It's like y'know, like.... y'know? *sniff*

Drav: I was going to write that "we still wuv ooo" but I figured that probably wasn't going to make you feel any better whatsoever.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Morgan: *burp* *scratch* *fart* huh, wassat? It's like y'know, like.... y'know? *sniff*

Drav: I was going to write that "we still wuv ooo" but I figured that probably wasn't going to make you feel any better whatsoever.

Actually, Jeremy, I think you made *two* of us take a health plunge with that post.

You can go back to being polite and articulate now. Please.

[DannyCox]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

and back when I started in 1996/1997 is this...

In 1996 the vast majority of people involved in this games ambition was to make millions a year , minimum 250k a yr.

Now the vast majority ambition is to make beer money or just around the same as they could make at a "real" job.

It is a major difference in mindset.

I would agree with you for 1997, but 1996 was a totally different time. The concept of sponsorship had just started, and very few were actually doing it. Xpics came out with the monthly percentage share of a set amount based on traffic sent, and Webpower started their $0.01 Raw Click promotion. It was very late 1996 and early 1997 when we saw the jump into higher pay-outs and PPS.

In 1996, we didn't fully understand what we had or where we were going. None of us "knew" this business as it was still in it's infancy, so we all ended up pioneering various techniques for traffic, conversion and retention. Many of which are still employed to this day. We had the handful of serious businessmen, and a lot of "Playas" (sounds like today, doesn't it) who were happy riding on the coattails of others, and making their "beer money".

With the demise of the original YNOT message board, and the proliferation of other webmaster boards, the real bullshit and cock-swinging started. The "Big Boys" were all trying to out do one another with higher and higher pay-outs, seeing huge revenue but taking a massive hit on pay-outs (just never made business sense to me). That was 1997.

I always stayed fairly quiet and behind the scenes, and have enjoyed good success all these years. My mindset in this is still the same as it was back when we started making real money; maximize revenues and minimize expenses to obtain true profit.

We still get people coming to us all the time thinking they can just throw up a website and get rich. Truthfully, I doubt the average person just coming into this today can even make beer money! People look at our success and think they can do it too. They tend to forget that we have been doing this for over eleven years now, and paid our dues those first few years. They also expect you to hold their hands, and guide them through the learning curve involved. While I'm happy to give basic advice, like most I keep the good stuff I know close to me.

I just consider myself an average "webmaster", but these days I just work on projects that hold an interest to me. My "cash cows" are out there running well, which gives me the ability to "play" with new ideas. We are still more than willing to work with others on projects, but we do tend to be selective on what we work on and who we work with.

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

*burp* *scratch* *fart* huh, wassat? It's like y'know, like.... y'know? *sniff*

For a moment there, I thought Inabon was posting!

[selena]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

I think he actually meant revHAIR, which is the 50-50 (60-40?) split Drav and Sarettah have done with their follicles.

Point awarded!

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by selena

Point awarded!