OutSourcing Does Not Mean OffShoring

[venturi]

This is basically a rant (partially abridged) I wrote on another board in response to the ever increasing amount of off-shore assclowns touting their slave wares. I figured I should post it here and see what the Opranauts have to say about my opinions. Gonzo is definitely one big fat bastard, but if it weren't for him I wouldn't be clogging your bandwidth to begin with.

So, feel free to trash me, flame me, BBQ me - or if so inclined agree with me. This is an issue close to me because of my IT/IS background. Only supportive, satirical and/or cynical replies are allowed in this thread ... all others will suffer the wrath of, ummm... THOR! Yeah, that's who!



As an outsourcing resource (not spelled offshoring from the US), I would never take a gig based upon monthly/weekly rates unless it was a long-term (semi)exclusive engagement. In other words, you trust me and I trust you and we come to an arrangement for continuuing projects/work.

What I really find frightening though is that all of these off-shore "outsourcing" companies come in touting prices that are 1/10th of the hourly rate a good programmer/designer/etc would charge in a 1st or 2nd world country. In my long experience with the corporate world I worked with and had many subordinates whose country of origin was one of these (sorry) "depressed" countries. They all commanded comparable salaries to their American counterparts. They got paid good wages, and lived comfortably here in the US. We (the company) sponsored them for their H1 status and gave them full benefits.

These "outsourcing" - properly spelled "off-shore sweat shop" companies however offer their employees basically nothing. They get crap wages - one example and not directed at the company in this thread offered "$899USD for a 100% dedicated to you developer working 40hrs per week per month." Do the math: that is $5.10/hr for a supposedly skilled craftsman in the IT industry - in other words less than making fries at McDonalds pays. And THAT assumes that said employee gets 100% of that $899/mo. I am betting that the best case scenario is that said employee gets about 40% of that fee as their salary, possibly after their local taxes. So, best case, by my assumption, is they are making $2.03/hr for their "skilled" work. And I'm also betting that these possibly talented individuals don't get any health ins. or any other benefits for their efforts.

Becoming a skilled craftsman in any trade, be it here on the interweb with graphic design, HTML, programming, marketing, text writing, etc. takes Time, Tools, Money to buy Tools and Knowlege. Paramount though is Time. You don't become a graphic artist over night. You can't possibly become a quality programmer after taking a tutorial on PHP. To a degree, the ability to do these things, like writing, may be innate - but honing said abilities or aptitudes is a time intensive process. This is WHY people pay for these services. You may be a marketing genius, but likely you are not also a genius at writing copy, graphic design, site layout, Search Engine optimization nor building a programatic infrastructure.

I can appreciate people wanting to save money, but at what expense? And in all seriousness, how solid is anything you're paying someone $2/hr going to be? I don't care if $2/hr equates to the median income of their locale. These people aren't stupid. They know they are living well below what they are worth in the "real world". Why would they put their best effort forth for you? I surely wouldn't.

Shut down these low class operations! These opportunists are making bank off of the sweat and experience of good people. Boycott them, let them know they are the scourge of the internet. They bring nothing to the plate but oppression and degradation of the very people they "employ". I can not express how much I despise these charlatans.

I'm not saying hire me or someone like me instead - our rates are not cheap. All I'm asking is that before you sign a contract with someone to do any kind of work for you on the interweb that you consider all the factors. Try and be a little bit ethical, and yeah maybe a little sympathetic to the actual people that are working your project. If they are merely stupid (like I was for way too long) go ahead and pay their insanely low prices - otherwise realize that in 99.487563% of situations (all statistics are made up) you get what you pay for.

And if any of these so called "outsourcing" companies that in fact are "offshoring to 3rd world countries" cares to take a piss with me I say Bring It On!

[Timon]

Originally posted by venturi@Jun 15 2005, 03:21 AM
So, feel free to trash me, flame me, BBQ me - or if so inclined agree with me. This is an issue close to me because of my IT/IS background. Only supportive, satirical and/or cynical replies are allowed in this thread ... all others will suffer the wrath of, ummm... THOR! Yeah, that's who!

I'd flame you bro but your post is just too damn long, I don't have the attention span to read through that whole lecture.

Can you distil it to 10 words or less so I have some ammo to flame you with ;-)

[Trev]

I do agree to some point that these “sweat shops” are bad, I just think they’re bad for different people than you. You say they are bad for the poor “skilled” people that are being oppressed and degraded. I disagree… I think if it wasn’t for the $2 these people are getting they’d have nothing…

I think the only people these operations are bad for are people like you and the likes… but then I do believe that you get what you pay for! If you pay peanuts then expect to hire monkeys!

[DamageX]

While it may seem to some that these people get paid peanuts, let's not forget that not living in a 1st or 2nd world country also has benefits. Such as much lower living costs.

They also make good money, and thus a good living, compared to their countrymen. Again, it may seem low to you, but to them its 2-3x higher than what they'd get paid by being hired by a local company, to do work for the local market. You bet they know what they're worth in the "real world", but keep in mind that that "real world" to you, not to them. They're being paid well, by their standards, think they'd risk emigrating to a "real world" country and end up with nothing? There's risk involved in everything and these people are not the entrepreneur type of people that make a living as adult webmasters and run semi to fully successful online businesses. They're followers, not leaders. They'd be followers for $50/week or for $5000/week.

As for the skill, don't think they'd be any less skilled than a "real world" equivalent to them. In fact, given the fact that they've most likely had to work much longer hours during their careers, I'd say the probability of them being more skilled is high.

To sum it up, I think outsourcing services are good, from several perspectives. First, it keeps us, in the "real world", on our toes and puts pressure on us to improve and perform better. Or at least be better at sellind our services. Second, it allows companies in the "real world" to expand faster, provided their overhead consists, to a significant level, of wage costs. No offence, but if you could have 3-4-5x the amount of work done for the same price you're paying now, would you not take that opportunity? In a market full of fierce competition, oftentimes the ones being able to churn out pure volume will succeed better. Not to mention that the people you'll hire this way are much less likely to com bitching to you about raises, vacation, insurance and other benefits, which you must handle as an employer and take up a lot of your time. Last, but not least, outsourcing companies actually help improve the living standards of their offshore employees.

No, I don't run an outsourcing company. I just thought I'd reply to your rant with one of my own, as it seems that there are certain aspects you haven't taken into consideration.

[Peaches]

Cliff notes?

[Rolo]

Offshore will only hit in those areas, where there is room for competition.

Alot of people in the western world need to wake up, and understand that the world does not stand still - either you get onboard, or you get left behind.

[Timon]

what's with the long posts??

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Timon@Jun 15 2005, 09:07 AM
what's with the long posts??

Yeah....... I know I never make long ass posts like that.

[Trev]

Cliff notes:

Venturi "Boo hoo, competition "

Me "damn skippy, competition "

DamageX "If your crying, you're charging to much <_< "


Well thats what I'm picking up anyway

[Steady]

Originally posted by sarettah+Jun 15 2005, 06:13 AM-->