Fuck the NHLPA

TheEnforcer · 02-03-2005

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1982377

Nearly five months into the NHL lockout, the players' association still won't accept the league's demand for a salary cap. The league says it's too late to talk about alternatives.

And now time is about to run out on the hockey season.

The union needed only a few hours Wednesday to reject the latest league proposal that would place minimums and maximums on what the 30 clubs can spend on player costs. That didn't quite put an end to the hope for hockey, but it sure pushed that prospect to the forefront.

“ We're at the end time-wise in terms of being able to continue this process and still play games this season, so there's not a lot of room flexibility-wise. ”
— Bill Daly, the NHL's chief legal officer

"If we're trying to meaningfully and reliably reduce player costs, we believe there are a number of ways that you can do that and it's not only through a salary cap," NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin said.

The players' association invited the league back to the negotiating table for another meeting Thursday, but neither side showed any real hope that progress could be made now -- even if NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and union chief Bob Goodenow are making a return to the talks.

Bettman and Goodenow haven't taken part in negotiations since Dec. 14, when the players' association rejected a counterproposal to an offer it made five days earlier. In the past two weeks, the sides held five small-group discussions without the leaders.

That hasn't helped move the process closer to a settlement, either.

"We're at the end time-wise in terms of being able to continue this process and still play games this season, so there's not a lot of room flexibility-wise," said Bill Daly, the NHL's chief legal officer.

It is unclear what will happen Thursday in New York when Bettman and Daly join Goodenow and Saskin. The players' association doesn't want a salary cap, and the NHL said there is no time to talk about something else.

"There isn't much in this offer that's attractive to us or that we consider fair or necessary for the sport," Saskin said. "I don't want to mislead anyone and suggest I'm optimistic at this point in time."

The way things are going, there might not be time for the sides to reach an agreement to save the 2005-06 season.

The sides met Wednesday for four hours in Newark, N.J., the fifth time in two weeks they've talked. The NHL is in danger of becoming the first major North American sports league to lose an entire season to a labor dispute.

"They asked for a meeting again tomorrow, and we'll see what they have to say," Daly said. "The proposal was put together with their interests in mind, what they've communicated to us across the table."

The lockout reached its 140th day Wednesday, and has forced the cancellation of 762 of the 1,230 regular-season games plus the All-Star game.

The NHL proposed a six-year deal that contained a cap that would force teams to spend at least $32 million on player costs but no more than $42 million -- including benefits.

This offer will not be presented to the players for a full vote, since Saskin said it's nowhere near what the association is looking for.

"There hasn't been a change on what we recognize as being the critical issue," Saskin said.

Bettman has said that teams lost a total of more than $1.8 billion over 10 years and that management will not agree to a deal without a defined relationship between revenue and salaries.

Last season's average salary was $1.8 million, and the NHL wants to push that back with a salary cap. This offer would give players between 53 and 55 percent of league revenues.

An economic study commissioned by the NHL found that players got 75 percent of league revenues. The union has challenged many of the league's financial findings.

If a deal is reached in time for hockey to be played this year, the NHL proposed that players would still receive 53 percent of revenues generated from a full playoff schedule that would follow a shortened regular season.

Also included in the offer -- which could be reopened by the union after four years -- was a profit-sharing plan that would allow the players' association to evenly split revenues over a negotiated level with the league.

On Dec. 9, the players' association proposed a luxury-tax system with an immediate 24 percent rollback on all existing contracts. The NHL liked the idea, but called that offer a short-term fix.

That portion of the union's plan, however, was accepted and included in the league's new proposal.

An entry-level contract cap of $850,000 -- including bonuses -- also was proposed by the NHL. That would return the ceiling to that of the 1995 draft class. Last season, the cap on entry-level contracts was $1.295 million.

The four-year, two-way contracts would also cap bonuses for each year of the deals. The league has proposed giving its own bonuses to entry-level players who finish in the top five in voting for the Hart, Norris, Vezina and Selke awards -- including $500,000 for winning each award.

Players would gain unrestricted free agency at 30 instead of 31, starting with the 2006-07 season. That age would drop to 28 if the NHL elects to eliminate salary arbitration during the course of the deal.

The minimum salary would be raised 62 percent to $300,000 per year, and guaranteed contracts would remain in existence but would be limited to three-year deals.

The league agreed to retain arbitration, a change from its Dec. 14 counterproposal, but the NHL wants to make it so teams can take players to arbitration instead of it being a one-way process.

The NHL has been operating under the same collective bargaining agreement since 1995, when the last lockout went 103 days before a 48-game season was played.

"We have lived with a system that has been incredibly inflationary and caused dramatic, league-wide losses over the last 10 years," Daly said. "We only know one way to fix that."

The Stanley Cup has been awarded every year since 1919, when a flu epidemic wiped out the final series between Montreal and Seattle.

================================================== ===

I'm with the owners on this one. The NHL is the least supported professional leauge among the big 4 and it's getting crushed under the weight of player salaries. While it has a core of hardcore and very dedicated fans it has yet to build up a casual fanbase to expand it's revenues significantly. While there has been coverage of the lockout that coverage pales in comparison to coverage of labor strife in the other sports when it occurs. The NFL is , IMHO, by far the best league when it comes to how they deal with salaries and cometitive balance. While some teams still have money resources others don't the main factor is a competent staff that knows how to find and evaluate talent.

Evil Chris · 02-03-2005

Don't be surprised to hear of an abbreviated season to commence as early as next weekend. Sometime around February 11th.

Talks are going well into the night tonight.
My fingers are crossed.

PornoDoggy · 02-03-2005

Fuck em both. I don't hold the players any more or any less responsible for the current snafu than I do the owners.

My fingers are crossed too ... I need to see some professional Canadian Ice Boxing real quick. While it is only 11 days 12 hours 40 minutes until pitchers and catchers report to camp, this is getting painful.

spazlabz · 02-04-2005

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!
I miss watching fucking hockey dammit!
fucking fucktard cockholster greedy no-market mother so-n-sos!

spaz

Evil Chris · 02-04-2005

It appears that final talks are going on today, and if nothing comes of them, the season will most likely be officially canned.

DrGuile · 02-04-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Evil Chris@Feb 4 2005, 02:14 PM
It appears that final talks are going on today, and if nothing comes of them, the season will most likely be officially canned.

the season is already canned if you ask me....

they can keep their 15 games season....

DrGuile · 02-04-2005

Isnt it disturbing that these talks are happening now? Its not like the situation is any different from last June.... or lets say september... Ok so its worse than at that point, but should both parties have seen exactly this coming? What did they expect?

TheEnforcer · 02-04-2005

Hockey just doesn't have near the revenue base the other sports do to go on like this. Something has to be done and neither side is looking particuarly good.

kevsh · 02-04-2005

I'm from Toronto, have played hockey most of my life, idolized the players growing up, etc etc etc. and to be honest, I could care less if they cancel the season.

They are spending all this time trying to decide how to divide our (the fans') money. And in the end, the only losers are the fans. The owners will still be rich, the players will make millions and the ticket prices will only go up.

(You know what is the most silly thing? The local media keeps saying how this will be the first time "one of the four major sports has cancelled a season." The NHL long ago ceased to be ond of the "four major sports'. Bowling would have a better argument right now in the US for being considered the 4th...

TheEnforcer · 02-04-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by kevsh@Feb 4 2005, 06:58 PM
(You know what is the most silly thing? The local media keeps saying how this will be the first time "one of the four major sports has cancelled a season." The NHL long ago ceased to be ond of the "four major sports'. Bowling would have a better argument right now in the US for being considered the 4th...

Actually the 4th major sport right now would probably be NASCAR (assuming you think it is a sport)

02-03-2005	#2
Evil Chris Looking Job #6 for the Year Respin bullshit press Your Comments Are Welcomed Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 2,786	Don't be surprised to hear of an abbreviated season to commence as early as next weekend. Sometime around February 11th. Talks are going well into the night tonight. My fingers are crossed. __________________ *I will talk shit about you if I think you wont find out.*

02-03-2005	#3
PornoDoggy Cramming 3 people in a Room to Attend Show Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Amid the Cornfields of Illinois Posts: 5,366	Fuck em both. I don't hold the players any more or any less responsible for the current snafu than I do the owners. My fingers are crossed too ... I need to see some professional Canadian Ice Boxing real quick. While it is only 11 days 12 hours 40 minutes until pitchers and catchers report to camp, this is getting painful. __________________ SEX STORY TEXT Exotic Material for Adult Websites Available for part time (project or ongoing) work ...

02-04-2005	#4
spazlabz Payserve SUX Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,988	FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!! I miss watching fucking hockey dammit! fucking fucktard cockholster greedy no-market mother so-n-sos! spaz __________________ Kenny's Pennies awesome fetish content that actually sells!

02-04-2005	#5
Evil Chris Looking Job #6 for the Year Respin bullshit press Your Comments Are Welcomed Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 2,786	It appears that final talks are going on today, and if nothing comes of them, the season will most likely be officially canned. __________________ *I will talk shit about you if I think you wont find out.*

02-04-2005	#7
DrGuile french with welsh tendancies Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 2,007	Isnt it disturbing that these talks are happening now? Its not like the situation is any different from last June.... or lets say september... Ok so its worse than at that point, but should both parties have seen exactly this coming? What did they expect? __________________ LiveBucks / Privatefeeds - Giving you money since 1999 Up to 40% Commission! 25% Webmaster Referal

02-03-2005	#1
TheEnforcer Scored VIP to Anton's Piss Tank Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,781	http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1982377 Nearly five months into the NHL lockout, the players' association still won't accept the league's demand for a salary cap. The league says it's too late to talk about alternatives. And now time is about to run out on the hockey season. The union needed only a few hours Wednesday to reject the latest league proposal that would place minimums and maximums on what the 30 clubs can spend on player costs. That didn't quite put an end to the hope for hockey, but it sure pushed that prospect to the forefront. “ We're at the end time-wise in terms of being able to continue this process and still play games this season, so there's not a lot of room flexibility-wise. ” — Bill Daly, the NHL's chief legal officer "If we're trying to meaningfully and reliably reduce player costs, we believe there are a number of ways that you can do that and it's not only through a salary cap," NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin said. The players' association invited the league back to the negotiating table for another meeting Thursday, but neither side showed any real hope that progress could be made now -- even if NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and union chief Bob Goodenow are making a return to the talks. Bettman and Goodenow haven't taken part in negotiations since Dec. 14, when the players' association rejected a counterproposal to an offer it made five days earlier. In the past two weeks, the sides held five small-group discussions without the leaders. That hasn't helped move the process closer to a settlement, either. "We're at the end time-wise in terms of being able to continue this process and still play games this season, so there's not a lot of room flexibility-wise," said Bill Daly, the NHL's chief legal officer. It is unclear what will happen Thursday in New York when Bettman and Daly join Goodenow and Saskin. The players' association doesn't want a salary cap, and the NHL said there is no time to talk about something else. "There isn't much in this offer that's attractive to us or that we consider fair or necessary for the sport," Saskin said. "I don't want to mislead anyone and suggest I'm optimistic at this point in time." The way things are going, there might not be time for the sides to reach an agreement to save the 2005-06 season. The sides met Wednesday for four hours in Newark, N.J., the fifth time in two weeks they've talked. The NHL is in danger of becoming the first major North American sports league to lose an entire season to a labor dispute. "They asked for a meeting again tomorrow, and we'll see what they have to say," Daly said. "The proposal was put together with their interests in mind, what they've communicated to us across the table." The lockout reached its 140th day Wednesday, and has forced the cancellation of 762 of the 1,230 regular-season games plus the All-Star game. The NHL proposed a six-year deal that contained a cap that would force teams to spend at least $32 million on player costs but no more than $42 million -- including benefits. This offer will not be presented to the players for a full vote, since Saskin said it's nowhere near what the association is looking for. "There hasn't been a change on what we recognize as being the critical issue," Saskin said. Bettman has said that teams lost a total of more than $1.8 billion over 10 years and that management will not agree to a deal without a defined relationship between revenue and salaries. Last season's average salary was $1.8 million, and the NHL wants to push that back with a salary cap. This offer would give players between 53 and 55 percent of league revenues. An economic study commissioned by the NHL found that players got 75 percent of league revenues. The union has challenged many of the league's financial findings. If a deal is reached in time for hockey to be played this year, the NHL proposed that players would still receive 53 percent of revenues generated from a full playoff schedule that would follow a shortened regular season. Also included in the offer -- which could be reopened by the union after four years -- was a profit-sharing plan that would allow the players' association to evenly split revenues over a negotiated level with the league. On Dec. 9, the players' association proposed a luxury-tax system with an immediate 24 percent rollback on all existing contracts. The NHL liked the idea, but called that offer a short-term fix. That portion of the union's plan, however, was accepted and included in the league's new proposal. An entry-level contract cap of $850,000 -- including bonuses -- also was proposed by the NHL. That would return the ceiling to that of the 1995 draft class. Last season, the cap on entry-level contracts was $1.295 million. The four-year, two-way contracts would also cap bonuses for each year of the deals. The league has proposed giving its own bonuses to entry-level players who finish in the top five in voting for the Hart, Norris, Vezina and Selke awards -- including $500,000 for winning each award. Players would gain unrestricted free agency at 30 instead of 31, starting with the 2006-07 season. That age would drop to 28 if the NHL elects to eliminate salary arbitration during the course of the deal. The minimum salary would be raised 62 percent to $300,000 per year, and guaranteed contracts would remain in existence but would be limited to three-year deals. The league agreed to retain arbitration, a change from its Dec. 14 counterproposal, but the NHL wants to make it so teams can take players to arbitration instead of it being a one-way process. The NHL has been operating under the same collective bargaining agreement since 1995, when the last lockout went 103 days before a 48-game season was played. "We have lived with a system that has been incredibly inflationary and caused dramatic, league-wide losses over the last 10 years," Daly said. "We only know one way to fix that." The Stanley Cup has been awarded every year since 1919, when a flu epidemic wiped out the final series between Montreal and Seattle. ================================================== === I'm with the owners on this one. The NHL is the least supported professional leauge among the big 4 and it's getting crushed under the weight of player salaries. While it has a core of hardcore and very dedicated fans it has yet to build up a casual fanbase to expand it's revenues significantly. While there has been coverage of the lockout that coverage pales in comparison to coverage of labor strife in the other sports when it occurs. The NFL is , IMHO, by far the best league when it comes to how they deal with salaries and cometitive balance. While some teams still have money resources others don't the main factor is a competent staff that knows how to find and evaluate talent.

02-04-2005	#9
kevsh Members Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5	I'm from Toronto, have played hockey most of my life, idolized the players growing up, etc etc etc. and to be honest, I could care less if they cancel the season. They are spending all this time trying to decide how to divide our (the fans') money. And in the end, the only losers are the fans. The owners will still be rich, the players will make millions and the ticket prices will only go up. (You know what is the most silly thing? The local media keeps saying how this will be the first time "one of the four major sports has cancelled a season." The NHL long ago ceased to be ond of the "four major sports'. Bowling would have a better argument right now in the US for being considered the 4th... __________________ Adult Video Chat & Webcam Reviews The top adult webcam sites, news and other useless sh1t Webcam Sponsors \| Top Webcam Sites \| Live Webcams