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Old 01-31-2005   #1
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Peter Khalil: Don't ignore Sunni triangle

January 31, 2005
US hopes for a more stable Iraq are riding on the legitimacy of a democratically elected Iraqi government emerging from the fire and blood of last night's election. The Bush administration views elections as the key political element in the campaign against the mainly Sunni insurgency.

Yet the elections will not succeed in calming the violence unless Iraqis themselves perceive the new government as legitimate. And among the requirements of legitimacy, one of the most critical is that the Sunni population must have participated and be represented on an equal footing with all of the other ethnicities in the country.

For this reason, the US is courting danger in leaning too heavily on these Iraqi national elections as a solution to the insurgency. Because the administration, the interim Iraqi government, and key Shia political leaders insisted on holding elections on January 30, only 15 of the 18 Iraqi provinces participated relatively free of intimidation. There was only limited participation in towns and cities in the Sunni triangle such as Fallujah, Ramadi, and Tikrit.

The lack of Sunni Arab participation in adequate numbers is akin to leaving Florida out of the US elections. A small Sunni representation in the new national assembly relative to the fact they make up to 20 per cent of the Iraqi population will only serve to fuel the insurgency and give it a potent new weapon in the propaganda war. The slogan of "disenfranchisement through occupation and sham elections" could solidify some of the more disparate insurgent groups into an insurgency of broader and more credible nationalist appeal, at least among the Sunni population. This is the exact opposite result of the administration's desire to bring disaffected Sunnis into the political process.

If the majority of Sunni Arabs find themselves excluded from this political process, last night's elections may only speed the way to an eventual dismemberment of Iraq. Since ministers in the new Iraqi government do not have to be members of the national assembly, one hopeful sign that civil war may be avoided is the willingness of Shia leaders such as Abdul Aziz al-Hakim to appoint Sunnis to cabinet posts even if Sunni parties only win nominal representation. In addition, assurances that Sunni leaders, clerics and jurists will be part of the constitutional drafting committee is a critical element in averting a dismemberment of Iraq.









Ensuring Sunni Arab participation in the political process over the next 12 months in the hope of weakening the insurgency is also tied to progress in security and economic reconstruction. The US still finds itself in the middle of a tough three-step process on all of these fronts. US and Iraqi forces have already completed most of the initial security tasks of retaking Fallujah, pockets of Ramadi, and about 20 other towns in the Sunni triangle and returning them to Iraqi government control.

The next step, however, is by far the greater challenge. US and Iraqi forces must hold and stabilise those towns and cities, establishing basic law and order, make progress with reconstruction efforts in electricity and water infrastructure, and defeat any insurgents who remain or try to return.

Finally, the majority of Sunnis still remain to be convinced that these elections will have given them genuinely fair and significant representation in the federal government and will therefore serve their interests. Sunni Arabs appointed to key ministries, tackling high unemployment rates in the Sunni triangle with job programs, and public education efforts by the Iraqi Electoral Commission are critical to promoting this belief.

Still, over the next 12 months political developments alone will not defeat the insurgency. Terrorist violence and insurgent activity will likely continue after these elections. The insurgents will do everything they can to derail a political process, which will deal their movement a serious blow if most Sunni Iraqis eventually come to see it as representative, inclusive and therefore legitimate.

If the newly elected Iraqi government can overcome these short-term obstacles with the support of the coalition and pave the way for an inclusive political process, the insurgency will eventually lose steam. Sound economic and social reconstruction efforts, together with continued joint counter-insurgency operations by the US military and the Iraqi army and police, will serve to weaken the insurgency over the following 12-24 months. By early 2007, it should be possible to contain the insurgency to the point where the US administration can begin contemplating a large-scale withdrawal of US troops.

Again, legitimacy will be key to accomplishing this long-term goal. Thus, Washington must resist the temptation to try to control the political process which will be guided by the new Iraqi government. It should focus on maintaining sound structural foundations and underlying principles, and not supporting personalities who may be in or out of favour.

A democratically elected Iraqi government in which Sunni, Shia, Kurd, Turkoman, Christian, Yazidi, communist, capitalist, secularist and Islamist are all represented may not even be a government the US particularly likes – particularly if Sunni ex-Baathists or radical clerics such as Moqtada al-Sadr hold key cabinet posts. But such a government will be legitimate, with the support of an overwhelming Iraqi majority, and will serve to hold the country together to the detriment of the insurgents.

As long as the new Iraqi government does not attempt to erode the important principles that buttress a pluralistic democratic state, the US should not attempt to fiddle with the internal Iraqi political process – even if it does not like who wins.

Peter Khalil, an Australian who is a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington, was the director of national security policy for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq from August 2003 to May 2004.
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Old 01-31-2005   #2
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a "sham"

thats a bit narrow given there has never been an election in the area since the dawn of civilization and more voters turned out to vote than the average number of those in the so-called "worlds greatest democracy"

i would call their obvious willingness and desire to participate in democratic elections both encouraging and inspiring.

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Old 01-31-2005   #3
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The task ahead will not be taken lightly by anyone - no iraqi will benafit from a collapse - incl. sunnis.

So its good news that all important countries have accepted that the election was fair given the special circumstance Iraq is in, which will put even more pressure on those who wish to fight it

I would not be surprised, if some of the terrorists and their supports who have baathist background will give up their now hopeless fight in exchange for influence in the new iraq.
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Old 01-31-2005   #4
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ok kerry, oh I mean kenndy, no wait, nick, it's ok, there'll be other reasons to bash Bush and his folks in the next 4 years


I wish I could have been a fly on the wall in the kerry/kenndy camp, you know they were really wishing for some bigtime atacks and deaths to happen, and was thinking their might be a 10% voter count. I have lost what "little" repect I had for kerry over this weekend. I've seen so many accounts from Iraqis thanking US and our armed forces for making this happen. Most thought that a FREE election would NEVER happen in thier life. It did yesterday. Be happy for them, and Hope we can get most of our guys and gals home soon

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Old 01-31-2005   #5
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Dan ... upon what do you base your assumption that " they [Kennedy, Kerry, and I assume, other people who think like me] were really wishing for some bigtime atacks and deaths to happen"?
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Old 01-31-2005   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 31 2005, 12:02 PM
Dan ... upon what do you base your assumption that " they [Kennedy, Kerry, and I assume, other people who think like me] were really wishing for some bigtime atacks and deaths to happen"?
there is no question that many Democrats in government are desperate for failure and bad news. there is no quote in existence that can show that Ted Kennedy is optimistic, supportive or simply even acknowledging any success in Iraq. I have seen a quite a few democrats that are clear about the fact that arguing about why we went in and the other issues are seperate. i have also seen the exact opposite in many where they have consistently had only negative things to say about any and every aspect of everything going on. one might argue that is not the same as "wishing for big time deaths" but i think it could be argued that there is not exactly a pattern of hope and making the best of the situation either.

i would think its quite obvious at this point that the world was lied to by the Bush Administration. the war was clearly not proven to be justified based on the often incoherent and wandering grounds that were cited. either that, or the worlds only super power has the worlds most ignorant and incompetent intelligence agencies and agents. however, the situation is what it is. an immediate pull out (as many dems constantly chant for) or constantly dwelling on the negatives seeking only to score political points at the expense of all those fighting for a positive change and the chance to improve their lives is borderline treason. it would be nice for once for someone like Ted Kennedy to simply say "Iraqis, i congratulate you"... and maybe mention 1 or 2 of the great successes that people are dying to achieve while he is stumbling around drunk and groping 18 year old bimbos at the family home by the beach.
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Old 01-31-2005   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by JR@Jan 31 2005, 03:17 PM
there is no question that many Democrats in government are desperate for failure and bad news. there is no quote in existence that can show that Ted Kennedy is optimistic, supportive or simply even acknowledging any success in Iraq. I have seen a quite a few democrats that are clear about the fact that arguing about why we went in and the other issues are seperate. i have also seen the exact opposite in many where they have consistently had only negative things to say about any and every aspect of everything going on. one might argue that is not the same as "wishing for big time deaths" but i think it could be argued that there is not exactly a pattern of hope and making the best of the situation either.

i would think its quite obvious at this point that the world was lied to by the Bush Administration. the war was clearly not proven to be justified based on the often incoherent and wandering grounds that were cited. either that, or the worlds only super power has the worlds most ignorant and incompetent intelligence agencies and agents. however, the situation is what it is. an immediate pull out (as many dems constantly chant for) or constantly dwelling on the negatives seeking only to score political points at the expense of all those fighting for a positive change and the chance to improve their lives is borderline treason. it would be nice for once for someone like Ted Kennedy to simply say "Iraqis, i congratulate you"... and maybe mention 1 or 2 of the great successes that people are dying to achieve while he is stumbling around drunk and groping 18 year old bimbos at the family home by the beach.
So .... let me see if I get this straight.

If I warn somebody that dumping a smoldering ashtray into a trashcan could start a fire, I WANT him to burn down his study?
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Old 01-31-2005   #8
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PD, IMHO they(you know who sound like brats that are very sore losers. I agree with JR, why can't kenndy(those like him) just say good job now let's work "togther" and get this done and done right.
IT really seems like they will BASH just to bash, I guess if you dont have a agenda for the next election bashing is all there is :/
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Old 01-31-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Jan 31 2005, 12:26 PM-->
QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Jan 31 2005, 12:26 PM)
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Old 01-31-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by dantheman@Jan 31 2005, 04:26 PM
PD, IMHO they(you know who sound like brats that are very sore losers. I agree with JR, why can't kenndy(those like him) just say good job now let's work "togther" and get this done and done right.
IT really seems like they will BASH just to bash, I guess if you dont have a agenda for the next election bashing is all there is :/
yeah, but if it was the other way around, the Repubs would be doing the same thing

remember, they got bent out of shape over a presidential blowjob

idiots from both sides will always jump on a negative on the other side...
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Old 01-31-2005   #11
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The new attitude on negativity that Republicans have is certainly refreshing. Too bad they didn't have that attitude between 1993-2001.

I assume, then, that the loss of American lives in Somolia must have been treated as a gift from [insert diety here] by Gingrich and Lott, right? I guess Republican meetings back in the late 90s were full of hope that lots of Americans would get killed in Kosovo so that it would reflect badly on Clinton, right?

I mean, that's how this thing is done, isn't it?

Bush speaks, the heads bobble in unison. They've offered up more fucking reasons for the war in Iraq than Stalin's communist apologists offered up for the Nazi-Soviet pact of 1939, and they never miss a bleat - and they lack the common sense to be embarassed by the shifts. "Mission accomplished" was proclaimed by the reserve deserter about 1100 American lives ago, and you hear none of the righteous indigation that a Democrat would have been treated to (after all, it's just dead soldiers, not anything serious like a blow job). The shift from "no nation building" to installing democracy has been a "to the rear, march" movement made with a precision that would be the envy of any crack military drill team.

Gimme a fucking break.
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Old 01-31-2005   #12
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Lets not start sucking eah others dicks just yet. take a lesson from history


U.S. Encouraged by Vietnam Vote : Officials Cite 83% Turnout Despite
Vietcong Terror

by Peter Grose, Special to the New York Times (9/4/1967: p. 2)

WASHINGTON, Sept. 3-- United States officials were surprised and heartened
today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election
despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting.

According to reports from Saigon, 83 per cent of the 5.85 million registered
voters cast their ballots yesterday. Many of them risked reprisals
threatened by the Vietcong.

The size of the popular vote and the inability of the Vietcong to destroy
the election machinery were the two salient facts in a preliminary
assessment of the nation election based on the incomplete returns reaching
here.
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Old 01-31-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 31 2005, 10:04 PM
Lets not start sucking eah others dicks just yet. take a lesson from history


U.S. Encouraged by Vietnam Vote : Officials Cite 83% Turnout Despite
Vietcong Terror

by Peter Grose, Special to the New York Times (9/4/1967: p. 2)

WASHINGTON, Sept. 3-- United States officials were surprised and heartened
today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election
despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting.

According to reports from Saigon, 83 per cent of the 5.85 million registered
voters cast their ballots yesterday. Many of them risked reprisals
threatened by the Vietcong.

The size of the popular vote and the inability of the Vietcong to destroy
the election machinery were the two salient facts in a preliminary
assessment of the nation election based on the incomplete returns reaching
here.
Grimm, your a smart man, there's no comparison what so ever. That was a different time, different goals(abit noble) and very different place. But your right, history will have the final say.
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Old 01-31-2005   #14
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The biggest threat to this nation is the defeatist liberals. They play right into the hands of our enemies and terrorists. We cannot be defeated militarily in Iraq, yet the liberals will continue to harp everday - giving our enemies hope, and undermining the American spirit and will.
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Old 01-31-2005   #15
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absolutely, just pointing out that this is a tremendous event. However there is a long way to go, and the Iraqi people have to REALLY want it for it to work. In the end, you are correct. History will tell the tale.
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Old 01-31-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 31 2005, 08:16 PM
The biggest threat to this nation is the defeatist liberals. They play right into the hands of our enemies and terrorists. We cannot be defeated militarily in Iraq, yet the liberals will continue to harp everday - giving our enemies hope, and undermining the American spirit and will.
Yeah half the citizens of the US should shut up.

There will be no criticism of the Fuhrer...err President.


;-)))
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Old 01-31-2005   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 31 2005, 08:16 PM
The biggest threat to this nation is the defeatist liberals. They play right into the hands of our enemies and terrorists. We cannot be defeated militarily in Iraq, yet the liberals will continue to harp everday - giving our enemies hope, and undermining the American spirit and will.
look who goose-stepped back to new orleans?


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Old 01-31-2005   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by grimm+Jan 31 2005, 08:27 PM-->
QUOTE (grimm @ Jan 31 2005, 08:27 PM)
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Old 01-31-2005   #19
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whoah, and i quit drinking . lol
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Old 01-31-2005   #20
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Need to be a little more original. There was a time in our Nation's history that partisanship ended at the oceans. Vietnam changed all of this....

Fortunately a majority of Americans agree, hence Bush winning re-election.
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Old 01-31-2005   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 31 2005, 08:29 PM
whoah, and i quit drinking . lol
first ve vill invade afghanistan unt zen irag unt zen Iran!!!!

Wir mussen den muslims aus rotten!!!!!!!
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Old 01-31-2005   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 31 2005, 08:34 PM


Need to be a little more original. There was a time in our Nation's history that partisanship ended at the oceans. Vietnam changed all of this....

Fortunately a majority of Americans agree, hence Bush winning re-election.
LOL


sorry Mike , I just was rereaeding everyones posts....

Look at our fucking avatars!!!

How can we be taken seriously...


ahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha
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Old 01-31-2005   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 31 2005, 08:34 PM


Need to be a little more original. There was a time in our Nation's history that partisanship ended at the oceans. Vietnam changed all of this....

Fortunately a majority of Americans agree, hence Bush winning re-election.
the point of the article was not to deter from the overwhelming sucess thus far, but as a warning to stick to it, and a perspetive that other elements will make it hard on the Iraqi people... the vietnamese did not want it enough. The Iraqi people will have to stand tall.

And there has to be a way to work the Ba'ath party and Sunnis into this, or we are talking civil war in the next 2 years.
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Old 01-31-2005   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 31 2005, 11:16 PM
The biggest threat to this nation is the defeatist liberals. They play right into the hands of our enemies and terrorists. We cannot be defeated militarily in Iraq, yet the liberals will continue to harp everday - giving our enemies hope, and undermining the American spirit and will.
Nothing like a cut and paste right out of the playbook ....
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Old 01-31-2005   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 31 2005, 08:34 PM


Need to be a little more original. There was a time in our Nation's history that partisanship ended at the oceans. Vietnam changed all of this....

Fortunately a majority of Americans agree, hence Bush winning re-election.
the majority rules thing is fools logic. There are a lot of people that think in many different ways, to not enourage this sort of thinking abroad is to weaken the hances of success.

Ive always kind of thought the idea of the electoral college was crap, and a president winning the popular vote by a little over 1% of those who voted, is not a clear message of a country united.
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Old 01-31-2005   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 31 2005, 11:34 PM


Need to be a little more original. There was a time in our Nation's history that partisanship ended at the oceans. Vietnam changed all of this....

Fortunately a majority of Americans agree, hence Bush winning re-election.
After repeating "defeatist liberals" right out of the playbook, you talking about originality demostrates the concept of chutzpah.
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Old 01-31-2005   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Jan 31 2005, 08:39 PM-->
QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Jan 31 2005, 08:39 PM)
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Old 01-31-2005   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by grimm+Jan 31 2005, 08:39 PM-->
QUOTE (grimm @ Jan 31 2005, 08:39 PM)
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Old 01-31-2005   #29
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hey theres nothing wrong with being a kennedy. Think about it, who else could drunk drive a girl into a body of water and make it back for tee time.
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Old 01-31-2005   #30
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hes just yankin your chain nick... information is not important, reaction is. posting an artile is not social commentary, he just likes to see what kind of reaction he an get.. you know, make the liberal monkey dance
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Old 01-31-2005   #31
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Really??? ;-)))

LOL
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Old 01-31-2005   #32
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Yeah, that's right. America never argued about foreign wars until Vietnam.

Lincoln, among many others, never criticized the Mexican War from the floor of Congress.

There was no opposition to the Pulitzer, er, Spanish American War.

Everybody in America was gung ho to go to war with the Central Powers ... nobody would dare to criticize Wilson once Americans started dying on the seas. (Of course, Wilson had an attorney general who would have make Ashcroft look like a card-carrying member of the ACLU).

Of course, the Republicans cooperated fully with Roosevelt in making sure America was prepared for the 2nd world war, and nobody every criticized Truman for Korea.

Balderdash and poppycock - just more inane half-truths from the bobbleheads, who probably think we enjoy too much freedom of speech anyway.
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Old 02-01-2005   #33
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 31 2005, 06:06 PM
The new attitude on negativity that Republicans have is certainly refreshing. Too bad they didn't have that attitude between 1993-2001.

I assume, then, that the loss of American lives in Somolia must have been treated as a gift from [insert diety here] by Gingrich and Lott, right? I guess Republican meetings back in the late 90s were full of hope that lots of Americans would get killed in Kosovo so that it would reflect badly on Clinton, right?

I mean, that's how this thing is done, isn't it?

Bush speaks, the heads bobble in unison. They've offered up more fucking reasons for the war in Iraq than Stalin's communist apologists offered up for the Nazi-Soviet pact of 1939, and they never miss a bleat - and they lack the common sense to be embarassed by the shifts. "Mission accomplished" was proclaimed by the reserve deserter about 1100 American lives ago, and you hear none of the righteous indigation that a Democrat would have been treated to (after all, it's just dead soldiers, not anything serious like a blow job). The shift from "no nation building" to installing democracy has been a "to the rear, march" movement made with a precision that would be the envy of any crack military drill team.

Gimme a fucking break.
as i recall, there was overwhelming support for Kosovo and i don't recall any Republicans organizing protest rallies against Clinton. i do remember the typical misguided hippies protesting against their own... including those who went to Yugoslavia to run the marathon with bullseyes on their chests to protest the bombing and Hollywoods well timed movie "Wag the Dog".

I agree with you about the inconsistencies. politics is politics. i agree with you that they are and have been wildly inconsistent about the reasons and even necessity of invading Iraq... and obviously, the primary reasons proved to be completely unfounded. i dont think anyone with a brain would dissagree with you after the fact.

like Lewis Black the comedian said in his act .. something like "if the President is going to go through all the trouble to lie to me to get me on board... and if all those lies are eventually found out to be lies... at least have the courtesy to make up some new lies"
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Old 02-01-2005   #34
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 31 2005, 11:55 PM
Yeah, that's right. America never argued about foreign wars until Vietnam.

Lincoln, among many others, never criticized the Mexican War from the floor of Congress.

There was no opposition to the Pulitzer, er, Spanish American War.

Everybody in America was gung ho to go to war with the Central Powers ... nobody would dare to criticize Wilson once Americans started dying on the seas. (Of course, Wilson had an attorney general who would have make Ashcroft look like a card-carrying member of the ACLU).

Of course, the Republicans cooperated fully with Roosevelt in making sure America was prepared for the 2nd world war, and nobody every criticized Truman for Korea.

Balderdash and poppycock - just more inane half-truths from the bobbleheads, who probably think we enjoy too much freedom of speech anyway.
PD it must be tough being such a deep, sophisticated thinker. What a burden you must bear!!


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Old 02-01-2005   #35
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Originally posted by Mike AI+Feb 1 2005, 12:03 AM-->
QUOTE (Mike AI @ Feb 1 2005, 12:03 AM)
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Old 02-01-2005   #36
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"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator," attributed to Adolf Hitler.

"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East"
attributed to George Bush.
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Old 02-01-2005   #37
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heh wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black
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Old 02-01-2005   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Jan 31 2005, 09:12 PM-->
QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Jan 31 2005, 09:12 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Feb 1 2005, 12:03 AM
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Old 02-01-2005   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Technick@Feb 1 2005, 12:12 AM
"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator," attributed to Adolf Hitler.

"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East"
attributed to George Bush.
Uhhh ... you got a source for that? WHO attributed that to GW?
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Old 02-01-2005   #40
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Jan 31 2005, 09:20 PM-->
QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Jan 31 2005, 09:20 PM)
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Old 02-01-2005   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Technick+Jan 31 2005, 09:26 PM-->

QUOTE (Technick @ Jan 31 2005, 09:26 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 31 2005, 09:20 PM
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Old 02-01-2005   #42
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at least bin laden isnt a liberal
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Old 02-01-2005   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 31 2005, 09:32 PM
at least bin laden isnt a liberal
Allah akbar !!!!

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Old 02-01-2005   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Feb 1 2005, 12:32 AM
at least bin laden isnt a liberal
Not so sure about that ...

he's a heathen.

That's kind of a liberal, isn't it?
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Old 02-01-2005   #45
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Unbelievers!!!!!




Stare at the four black dots in the center of the image for 30 - 60 seconds.
Then quickly close your eyes and look at something bright .

You should see a white circle with an image inside it.

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Old 02-01-2005   #46
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It's the Zig-Zag man!!!!!
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Old 02-01-2005   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 31 2005, 11:44 PM
Coming from a privilidged background of Irish descent ,with too much money , surrounded by scandals concerning drinking drugs and women , I mean...............................oh , fuck ,I'll shut up now...

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