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there are too many people who believe that it is too late to profit from freesites, TGPs, linklists, etc...
why?
with the correct management of traffic alot of money can be made if used in a resourceful fashion.
surfers are shying away from wanting to pay $30 to join a site, especially with all of the known scammers in this business, so why haven't you figured out a way to profit from surfers looking for free porn?
I think it does both actually... Just enough free porn makes them join... to much makes them pop a load before signing up. I think we have sort of shot ourselves in the foot with the free stuff. We have to keep giving away so much to make them join. With these free sites the idea is to get them primed up for a good sponsor to convert it into a sale for us both.
There is def money to be made with free sites and branding names and selling off traffic. I have also noticed the quality of traffic coming from different free sites and how it varies. What I mean by that is the traffic from free sites that are bring in traffic and holding it like a community site is hotter the a hooker on the front row of a Baptist church. It converts steady sales, with fewer clicks. (For the most part) Where as traffic from a tgp/mgp takes more traffic to make the same number of sales.
Originally posted by andymike@Jan 29 2005, 05:38 PM I think it does both actually... Just enough free porn makes them join... to much makes them pop a load before signing up. I think we have sort of shot ourselves in the foot with the free stuff. We have to keep giving away so much to make them join. With these free sites the idea is to get them primed up for a good sponsor to convert it into a sale for us both.
There is def money to be made with free sites and branding names and selling off traffic. I have also noticed the quality of traffic coming from different free sites and how it varies. What I mean by that is the traffic from free sites that are bring in traffic and holding it like a community site is hotter the a hooker on the front row of a Baptist church. It converts steady sales, with fewer clicks. (For the most part) Where as traffic from a tgp/mgp takes more traffic to make the same number of sales.
good reply.
what i find most is that people who arent successful with freesites are the ones that dont squeeze money out of all the little drips of traffic. you can make money off of 404 if used properly.
i will not go into deep detail about how a freesite can be fully optimized, but if you abide by all the basic rules and be a little creative you can make even a small site successful.
and if you have the right amount of funding you can take a freesite and make it into a goldmine. however, with my own sites i have had to take a longer time to build them up since i did not have good start up capital.
just like any other aspect of this business people think they can just jump in and make alot of money immediately.
no
if you want to become a good photographer and have money, you can buy the most expensive camera, but it still will take time to develop a photographers eye in order to be successful. so you need to work at it till you get it right.
same goes for freesites and paysites or anything else for that matter. and thats why i havent rushed into starting my own paysites yet. i am doing good with the freesites for now so i am continuing to grow with them.
Originally posted by MrIzzz@Jan 29 2005, 04:58 PM
surfers are shying away from wanting to pay $30 to join a site, especially with all of the known scammers in this business
it's the opposite.....people are shying away from the "Free trials" and 1 dollar trials. selling a straight membership is commin' up.
For me time is valuable and as I have said before in previous threads on this ...
1.) Its ALL about traffic
1.a) Traffic is what gets you the sale
2.) OK, Content helps and is an added bonus.
2.a) Content KEEPS the sale.
So therefore people want/ need traffic
1.) The easiest traffic to get is TGP traffic.
2.) It is the hardest to convert cause frankly its reguritated crap.
4.) The best traffic is from: SEs and Spam
5.) Spam is bad , mmmkay
Therefore why is so much of peoples time energy and resources taken up with gaining TGP traffic???????
Hmmmm
1.) Its easy fast and immediate
((and I'd say now that this market is 90% made up of people who can make $100 -$200 a day from this (and from whjat I gather on the zoo these people are considered players.))
2.) They do not have the knowledge , patience or resources to work SE's
3.) Spam is bad mmmkay.
Screw you guys..the new goldmines are just over yonder...I'm going over there...you guys can stay here
And its called:
1.) Search Engine Optimisation
Come on , if WEBMASTERS search for the things they need in the first instance through search engines , so do surfers.
2.) Can-Spam Compliant Email
These 2 forms of traffic IMHO and after some effort and research are the Goldmines.
TGPs are the Saltmines.
I'd rather find a way of getting Can-Spam mail through filters and be the poorest of the Goldminers , than find a way of converting TGP traffic and be the richest of the Saltminers
For an approximate comparison....
A really good TGPer can make 3k a day say...approximately 100k a month.I'm talking THE TOP echelon. An Average Decent one....say $300 a day.
A really good goldminer , can make 30k/60k a day roughly$1 to 2 million (muhahahahaha errrr.....sorry for that) a month.
A pretty decent Goldminer can EASILY make what a top echelon TGPer can.
for me , and everyones mileage varies it is more profitable for me to explore these forms of traffic than TGP.
Of course in an ideal world I like to own sex.com , porno.com etc etc...but when Webfather was saying on YNOT back in 96/97 to buy domains , I thought he was raving...
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 29 2005, 08:18 PM Of course in an ideal world I like to own sex.com , porno.com etc etc...but when Webfather was saying on YNOT back in 96/97 to buy domains , I thought he was raving...
back in 96/97 I was in college with no clue to anything.
Major undeclared and evrything.... I wish i would have picked up on the PC back then.
I have a degree in Psychology sitting here that serves me no purpose and cost a shitload of money :-(
but I certainly am not going to mock those that make a good living at TGPs each for his own ,and I know some guys that do it are brilliant at working it.
In fact Biggy on here gave me a great tip.
Send some garbage traffic to various proggies , if the convert it , imagine what they'll convert like with mail or SE.
So simple , but so true and I'd forgotten that basic ,..I have sent 10,000 mail hits to some sites (alledgedly) and got nothing .....waste of mail.
And these days any mail hit you can get thats canspam compliant is precious...
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 29 2005, 10:29 PM
Send some garbage traffic to various proggies , if the convert it , imagine what they'll convert like with mail or SE.
Wrrrrong.
What a tgp surfer will pay for a SE surfer can ejaculate to on the tour.
Perfectgonzo sites will convert on tgp traffic....on SE traffic they can blow their load looking at the static tour. Simple sites convert SE traffic. Extreme sites convert tgp traffic.
Nick, I would love to hear some of those things "you have been told." I've "heard" a thing or three over the years but I know you have your ear to the ground a bit more.
On the SE optimization topic Pushpills is right. A modified FPA with just a bit of sticky content like pic of the day or movie of the day still works like a charm. Anything more than that is overkill.
There's more you can do to convert them but it sounds like some sharks are gearing up for competition. I think I will shut my mouth now and go back in the deep water where it's quiet, uncrowded and safe... for the moment. earl:
Many of us who have been around a long time started in free sites and moved on. Of course, you can make a living at TGPs,etc. I ran some for a while. Like Nick said, to each his own. I sure learned a lot running various sites, seo, p2p spamming, etc.
If I could do it all over again - go back to the mid 1990s - I would have started an affiliate program.
Another thing, when you can send a lot of joins you meet all the top people in the business. The connections last forever.
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Regarding galleries, then I´m happy that more and more of the TGP/MGP traffic is getting in the hands of business men and women, so we can continue the evolution in "free" porn with more and better ads.
Have seen TGPs/MGPs, which allow videos/pics to be played in html pages + videos which are designed to "tease" are also acceptable today, so things are going in the right direction
The next step we need is more critical thinking by both traffic owners and buyers, so that the overall product will be optimized.
Ex. We could take the Google approach by TGPs/MGPs only allowing 1 listing per paysite per day, which would give more variety to the surfer + possible higher traffic prices, and sponsors/webmasters should look at the performance of their galleries to cut off the traffic sources, which cost more than they generate - just like keyword optimization.
Other good ideas are simple rules for content (ex. no money shot), so that the surfer are more likely to visit the traffic buyers... DRM for videos, which after ex. 3 plays, pops an ad for the sponsor. But also things that will give the TGPs/MGPs more bookmarks, like co-branded galleries, which will give an exclusive feel to the TGP/MGP.
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Jan 30 2005, 03:25 AM Great thread.
Many of us who have been around a long time started in free sites and moved on. Of course, you can make a living at TGPs,etc. I ran some for a while. Like Nick said, to each his own. I sure learned a lot running various sites, seo, p2p spamming, etc.
If I could do it all over again - go back to the mid 1990s - I would have started an affiliate program.
Another thing, when you can send a lot of joins you meet all the top people in the business. The connections last forever.
This is the God's honest truth.
I didn't move up in ranks due to my evervesant personality. Traffic and signups. To this day, Toolz and I talk about the old ARS days.
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 30 2005, 02:14 PM Screw you guys..the new goldmines are just over yonder...I'm going over there...you guys can stay here
And its called:
1.) Search Engine Optimisation
Come on , if WEBMASTERS search for the things they need in the first instance through search engines , so do surfers.
2.) Can-Spam Compliant Email
These 2 forms of traffic IMHO and after some effort and research are the Goldmines.
The first works faster and goes away faster. The second is a longer time money maker. And if you work them both right, they can both be long-term spider food.
Thing is, you need quantity. Whether you are submitting to other TGPs and links list, or you have your own real one, or your own fake one(s).
How to do that? (Spammy but it's true). Content God CMS -- more than a paysite creator, more than a gallery maker, it will make tons of free and feeder sites with side-page recips to the lists, static and rotating TGP and MGP galleries with hundreds of recip mirrors.
I got into promoting cam sites because with file-sharing, huge hard drives, portable DVD players, ripping software everywhere etc etc. selling "static" content just seemed less profitable long-term. (ie Free content was killing paid content)
Live cams offer real-time, 2-way communication/interaction that can't be burned onto a CD or shared on Kazaa.
So I'm far from an authority on this topic, but in my area of work a teaser chat is designed to lure the viewer into paying. There are still far too many "sitters" in each chat room but the ones that open the wallet often open it wide.
So .... in a sense, it's offering free softcore (clothes on/group chat) to lure into hardcore (live sex or solo/1-on-1)
(Gee, Izz, I hope I didn't stray toooo far from the topic???)
Then again, the toolbars that offer access to DVD rips seem to be along the lines of offering free porn - for a price (the software). Kind of like selling pick-axes to hopeful gold-miners ... so there are concepts that can be profitable by offering "free" content
No one is "afraid" of profit. If you're afraid of $ I'll give you my paypal address and be glad to help you with your problem
Way back when more $ was to be made owning paysites. The first thing I ever did was open a paysite (8/17/97 launch date). Built free sites as feeders
Could be wrong (and please correct me if I am) but looks now the most $ to be made in the TGP business is by selling traffic.
What I've wondered for a while and where I am not getting the business model is this traffic has to be buying something, somewhere or the traffic could not be continued to be sold as long as it has. I thought (wrongly) the model would collapse as TGP traffic is a tough conversion
Admittedly I buy TGP traffic occasionally but I beat the hell out of it and then send it out for other traffic
I've been one of the most outspoken regarding the pain the deluge of free porn has caused. No one will disagree porn membership sites sales would increase if there was less free porn available but the genii's out of the bottle (there are other contributing factors such as the bloom being off the internet rose so to speak, funky billing practices and so on ...)
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I once wanted to be a Gynecologist
But I couldn't find an opening
I'm not thinking of this as my main earner , but it will be a small part of the New Empire slowly being built , restored or renovated with the help of Gonzo , Joesho , and many other members of the Oprano family.
Nick,
I'd say it may be a little different now than 3 years ago
More savvy surfers, those who cancel memberships within minutes of buying, those who know about recurring billing
But still at the 10 price point I'd think more will stay, they did for me way back
__________________
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I once wanted to be a Gynecologist
But I couldn't find an opening
We have pay sites that happily rebill month after month at 10. These are the ones we are not updating, so the price point stays that way and we avoid chargebacks and the consumer forgets about it on his credit card bill.
Back in the day, we had a 14.95 trial that lasted two weeks, and then rebilled at 19.95, which was the magic number for the site....that's when we ran spanking pay sites...before they were popular....
I think one of the problems with tgp and link lists are the damned rules. Why would I want to give the surfer so many images or movies at the highest quality, when it's always worked better to give the surfer a hint of a hard on, rather than the entire orgasmic enchilada.
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Raven
If You'd Just Do It My Way, Your Life Would Be Better
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Originally posted by MrIzzz@Jan 29 2005, 02:58 PM there are too many people who believe that it is too late to profit from freesites, TGPs, linklists, etc...
why?
with the correct management of traffic alot of money can be made if used in a resourceful fashion.
surfers are shying away from wanting to pay $30 to join a site, especially with all of the known scammers in this business, so why haven't you figured out a way to profit from surfers looking for free porn?
does free porn hurt this business or help it?
interesting...
Well, all I know is this.
The last tour we had had 6 pages and 3 of them had 1-2 minute clips of action then the join page. the new tour is 2 pages and the join page with NO free clips and sells almost twice as well. Seems to fit the topic here.
Now we have create multiple seperate tours each 2 pages long then the join page, but none with free clips etc, going to let affiliate pick which tour they want to send the traffic to. should be interesting to see how that works.
Originally posted by Raven@Jan 31 2005, 09:41 PM For those of you 'not' into mailing, I've been told I write marketable text mailer ads. Not that I would do that, mind you.
thats iz an int3rs3ting posts asfSD;JFDFGDFFGLKFLFKLLKD'GDFLK
i THINk it really was 2 the point and would be of interest to the right person
01-29-2005
earl:
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