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Gotta love what? That two of the original gay sponsors who have consistently put forth money and effort for the Phoenix Forum from the beginning -- and I should know, I organized the first one as it is today -- are taking an active stance to promote themselves?
It's totally amazing to me how you've cried politics, politics, politics for months now about the gay webmaster community, when there was no real evidence of any such thing, at least not outwardly.
Now you've got YNOT syndrome on your hands and you're crying like a little bitch. Get over it.
You don't see Nick or Lensman, picking a fight with leading members of the affilate program segment of this business for starters. And if they did, I don't much think they'd be stupid enough to wail about it on another board when someone they had alienated decided to poke a little tongue in cheek stick at them.
I thought you were being deliberately cheeky all along ... now I'm not sure what game you are laying. if you really think you didn't do anything wrong by planning events to take an audience away from an event that was organised by someone else, then you are more unprofessional than I thought.
We have paid sponsorship for the Phoenix Forum, how is that p[iggy backing on their work? We are holding several events at the Phoenix Forum (that have been planned with CCBill since Novemeber) are you saying that we arent allowed to promote our own sponsored events at the Forum?
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if you really think you didn't do anything wrong by planning events to take an audience away from an event that was organised by someone else, then you are more unprofessional than I thought.
Okay again im confused, our events are being held in co-ordination with CCBill and the Phoenix Forum. They are the ones who we have been working with for the last 3 months in planning times for our events to make sure they dont coincide with any of the other event sponsors happenings.
All of our events are on-site and 'sanctioned' 'officially' by CCBill and the Phoenix Forum, where word to the contray came from i have no idea.
Please enlighten me as to what i am doing wrong here, it seems all i am doing is making sure webmasters know about our events that we have paid CCBill sponsorship funds to be able to hold, this isnt something happening without the approval of CCBill which is what i beleive you seem to think the Gay Webmaster Bash events are.
$tanDaMan 8/23/2004 12:58 PM did u check out the update?
Lee 8/23/2004 12:58 PM yep showed it to the boss man to and he has a couple of suggestions i wanted to chat with you about
Lee 8/23/2004 12:59 PM basically he isnt to impressed with the overall 'feel' of the design he was hoping to get something more along the lines of that xbiz url i shopwed you except with vegas type graphics on it ( http://www.xbiz.com/happy/ )
Lee 8/23/2004 12:59 PM would it be possible to duplicate that using different images and navigation links?
$tanDaMan 8/23/2004 1:04 PM i guess
Lee 8/23/2004 1:05 PM i mean obviously duplicate it so it isnt 100% exact but the 'body' of that layout is there
Originally posted by $tanDaMan@Jan 25 2005, 08:25 PM Lee, are you sure you should be talking?
$tanDaMan 8/23/2004 12:58 PM did u check out the update?
Lee 8/23/2004 12:58 PM yep showed it to the boss man to and he has a couple of suggestions i wanted to chat with you about
Lee 8/23/2004 12:59 PM basically he isnt to impressed with the overall 'feel' of the design he was hoping to get something more along the lines of that xbiz url i shopwed you except with vegas type graphics on it ( http://www.xbiz.com/happy/ )
Lee 8/23/2004 12:59 PM would it be possible to duplicate that using different images and navigation links?
$tanDaMan 8/23/2004 1:04 PM i guess
Lee 8/23/2004 1:05 PM i mean obviously duplicate it so it isnt 100% exact but the 'body' of that layout is there
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 25 2005, 08:33 PM You said "steal that design and copy it"
I didnt but if thats what you want to read into it dude thats fine
I actually gave Webinc the same instructions, use that kind of navigation / page layout using different links and they did to provide the final site layout we have now which, incidently, is not even close to the xbiz one unless you count it has a header, main body and right panel for buttons
Stan is just pissed because we went elsewhere to get our work done. He is more than welcome to post the 'layouts' his company did for the GWB site though, if he does, youll see why we went to a better designer
You don't know what you are doing, you are going to tell me what quality of work we produced?
1. You didn't pay for your work
2. You failed to provide specs other then 'copy xbiz site'
3. Your budget was too low to get anything decent produced ($500 for the site i believe) lets make it public since you asked for it. We DONT make sites for less then $1000... but hey, i thought i'll do you a favor.
4. You ended up ignoring and didn't even gave the courtesy of letting us know you decided to not go ahead with the deal.
5. YOU FUCKED UP
6. YOU DONT PAY YOUR DESIGNERS (not me.. the other case everyone is aware of)
Lee 9/1/2004 3:37 PM hey man we're kind getting ready for the hurricane to hit us right now
Which we were, you may want to check the dates of when the 4 hurricanes hit us and we had to evacuate
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Lee 9/20/2004 9:57 PM hey man.. sorry we were both away last week
Lee 9/20/2004 9:57 PM ill get with you first thing in the AM if thats okay im dog tired
$tanDaMan 9/20/2004 9:58 PM aight.. i thought u r ignoring me
Lee 9/20/2004 9:58 PM haha nah we had a wedding we had to go to lol
Which we did
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9/27/2004 5:46 PM u got till tommorow, or i am scrapping this, it's just cositng me too much time... sorry
When i got this message it was around the 30th so you had already told me you didnt want to continue the work hence, we went with Webinc
Originally posted by Lee@Jan 25 2005, 11:37 PM Stan is just pissed because we went elsewhere to get our work done. He is more than welcome to post the 'layouts' his company did for the GWB site though, if he does, youll see why we went to a better designer
You must be retarted if i think i am upset about that..
I am upset you don't know how to do business, and how to properly communicate with people you hire to do work for. You don't follow through on your contracts.
Originally posted by $tanDaMan@Jan 25 2005, 08:39 PM You don't know what you are doing, you are going to tell me what quality of work we produced?
1. You didn't pay for your work
2. You failed to provide specs other then 'copy xbiz site'
3. Your budget was too low to get anything decent produced ($500 for the site i believe) lets make it public since you asked for it. We DONT make sites for less then $1000... but hey, i thought i'll do you a favor.
4. You ended up ignoring and didn't even gave the courtesy of letting us know you decided to not go ahead with the deal.
5. YOU FUCKED UP
6. YOU DONT PAY YOUR DESIGNERS (not me.. the other case everyone is aware of)
Actually, for the record, the site design was a trade for ad space re a post i made over on Porno Junkies which you replied too
Originally posted by $tanDaMan@Jan 25 2005, 08:41 PM I am upset you don't know how to do business, and how to properly communicate with people you hire to do work for. You don't follow through on your contracts.
Well im sorry, the next time ill make sure to hold the hurricanes back a few days so i can get finished with design work instead of evacuating
Lee 9/1/2004 3:37 PM hey man we're kind getting ready for the hurricane to hit us right now
Which we were, you may want to check the dates of when the 4 hurricanes hit us and we had to evacuate
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Lee 9/20/2004 9:57 PM hey man.. sorry we were both away last week
Lee 9/20/2004 9:57 PM ill get with you first thing in the AM if thats okay im dog tired
$tanDaMan 9/20/2004 9:58 PM aight.. i thought u r ignoring me
Lee 9/20/2004 9:58 PM haha nah we had a wedding we had to go to lol
Which we did
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9/27/2004 5:46 PM u got till tommorow, or i am scrapping this, it's just cositng me too much time... sorry
When i got this message it was around the 30th so you had already told me you didnt want to continue the work hence, we went with Webinc
Lee, quit while you are behind.
The full log of the conversation is here.. everyone can judge for themselves.
Originally posted by Lee@Jan 25 2005, 11:34 PM Hardly Nick
We simply showed the guy what we were looking for layout wise, nothing more, nothing less
simply showed? you did not accept the layout, every time it was not similar enough..
and we just don't copy.. so i just gave up on you, after you started ignoring me on the order you have placed.. [/quote]
Please post all the feedback i gave you in your customer admin system if you are going to start posting blatent lies.
Also, please show the 'quality' of the work you guys produced for us too.
The simple truth is, we went to Webinc because they do great quality design work and the shit you gave me as a site was just that, shit. [/quote]
You asked for it:
Posted By : Lee Windsor
When : 2004-08-12 08:46
Delete this message : Seen this preview and have a few bits of feedback on it..
1) The site name isnt GayWideWebmasters it is GayWebmasterBash i guess the confusion came about from having the logo for GWW uploaded to the system.
2) The overall layout of the actually design itself isnt really how i imagined it would be. To me at least, it doesnt look anything like the urls i showed on ICQ http://www.xbiz.com/happy/ and http://www.wypd.com for example. We were really looking for something a little simpler.
3) The navigation panel on this layout is also to big, its almost half the size of the header itself and as you can see from the sample url igave you above thats not really the effect we were looking for.
4) Also the 720x60 banner needs to fit the full width of the design as this is going to be the primary sponsorship space for the webmaster event.
With that said i REALLY like the image you have in the header of the Vegas skyline and would like you to use that in the revised version of this if possible.
Originally posted by Lee@Jan 25 2005, 11:48 PM Okay please post the sample you uploaded too
As i said, the layout was nothing like the xbiz site or the yp site we showed you.
Which did we ask you to copy? one or the other? please make your mind up
EXACTLY you kept asking me to reproduce the site..
I hope Todd gets paid for his work.. you will soon run out of designers you fucked in this biz.. and i don't think you can afford mainstream designers.
If you do a search on GFY, I believe this is the 2nd time I'm hearing about design non-payment issues regading Lee.. I'm almost 99% sure. I believe the amount in question the first time around was a few hundred $$$. The designer made a big stink about it.. you'd figure any intelligent person would pay a few hundred $$$ to keep their rep.
I have read this post and I am way out of the loop and lost.
But I have to say one thing!!
LEE, I am with you!!! Fuck those glory hole divas!!!
Ok had to get that off my chest!
__________________
Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
Originally posted by Biggy@Jan 25 2005, 09:00 PM Stan,
If you do a search on GFY, I believe this is the 2nd time I'm hearing about design non-payment issues regading Lee.. I'm almost 99% sure. I believe the amount in question the first time around was a few hundred $$$. The designer made a big stink about it.. you'd figure any intelligent person would pay a few hundred $$$ to keep their rep.
You are correct.
We didnt pay Blue Design Studios beause the work they delivered was crap.
I spoke with Wade and Andrew in person in Vegas and we addresses the issues of the workmanship, i am still awaiting the start of a dialogue with either of them so we can get the site design they did for us that is, as yet not finished to a satisfactory standard so we can have payment made for that work
Last but not least, do not attempt to drag CCBill into this. Of course your events are sanctioned. The Phoenix Forum does not play favorites, and never has. If you are a sponsor, you are a sponsor and are entitled to all the cooperation they give to any sponsor. Lord knows that one pr_gram owner and I fought for three years like cats and dogs over the fact that he didn't get to create his own sponsorship so therefore didn't sponsor the Forum.
Lee, you brought this over here, so I'll tell you exactly what I think. I was nice to you on your own board when you kept locking up threads left and right instead of just letting people have some discussion about your banning of Cybersocket, Bedfellow and Mansites, and turning them into a bunch of *****, as well as your insistence that anyone who was personally affected by the issues should email you instead of your addressing it like an adult.
For the record, ManSites isnt and never has been banned over on GWW oh and yes, i did request that anyone from the two banned companies that had issue with being banned from GWW email me to work out the issues at hand, to date, i have not been contacted by either the company owners or, anyone working at the two companies. Instead, i was contacted by a load of people who admittedly, were 'friends' of the two banned companies yourself included kimmy. I clearly stated that i would only deal directly with the two banned companies after they were banned for stirring up the shit on GWW about our Vegas and Phoenix events, if people cant follow simple instructions, thats not my issue.
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Mansites, Cybersocket, Bedfellow and several other gay companies have been staunch supporters of the Phoenix Forum since the beginning. They have contributed many many dollars and man hours to help make it arguably the best show of the entire year, year after year.
Agreed and this is actually going to be our second year support the Phoenix Forum.
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You, in your misplaced egotistical arrogance, seem to have designated yourself and your board as the harbingers of all that is gay in adult, and the arbiters of all that is correct within that community.
No we havent, our community members have done that. I am the first to admit a board is only as good as the community it has posting there and, despite some companies coming to GWW and spamming the shit out of their own sites and stirring up shit for the sake of it, GWW still remains the largest and friendliest resource community for the gay market place.
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So when these companies, with a much more established history, took you to task for attempting to make it appear that your events were THE gay events, you got all pissy and banned them from your board. And now you come over here to bitch about the fact that they've played you at your own game. I tried to warn you that you were alienating many people with your actions and your attitude, but you don't listen to anything but your own ego and insecurities when it comes to advice.
Kimmy, if you think that was the only reason they were banned you are sorely mistaken. That was the final straw in a miriad of activites on the two banned companies parts, including approaching companies around the time we were promoting our Vegas events and telling them if they sponsored the Gay Webmaster Bash they would have been ripped off by both Gary and Myself.
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After your bitching and complaining to and about AVN and especially Aly, regarding these so called politics that no one but you actually seemed to perceive, at least outwardly, in every space including this board, that you could find, perhaps poetic justice is served by the fact that these companies are taking a very proactive stance towards reminding the gay community, as well as the webmaster community at large, that they have spent lots of dollars and lots of time and energy to create the very situation in Phoenix that makes YOUR party schedule attractive.
Kimmy, again you seem to be under the delusion my problem with those two companies is that they are sponsoring the Phoenix Forum just like we are, this isnt the case at all. My problem specifically, which was why this thread was started was their blatent attempt at diluting our established service mark of the Gay Webmaster Bash.
This whole 'issue' with those two companies has been around for many, many years, not just with myself and Gary but with many other companies in the gay market place, the lies they spread about our officially sanctioned events in Phoenix not being so, was just the icing on the cake, you can only fuck with my business for so long before i take action, legal or otherwise, in this instance i chose to ban them from my board.
Last but not least, do not attempt to drag CCBill into this. Of course your events are sanctioned. The Phoenix Forum does not play favorites, and never has.
Kimmy, again you may want to check your facts, we didnt drag CCBill into this at all, in fact, CCBill were dragged into it by the two companies who we banned on GWW.
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If you are a sponsor, you are a sponsor and are entitled to all the cooperation they give to any sponsor.
Agreed and that is hat we are doing, despite the attempts by those two companies in telling people that we arent in fact Phoenix Sponsors.
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CCBill isn't the issue here.
You are correct CCBill isnt and never has been the issue, the issues are the games being played by those two companies to spread malicious information about our events as well as now attempting to dilute our establised service mark.
It would seem that you are letting your personal emotions get in the way of business because your 'friends' were banned on GWW.
Originally posted by Lee@Jan 25 2005, 09:30 PM Instead, i was contacted by a load of people who admittedly, were 'friends' of the two banned companies yourself included kimmy. I clearly stated that i would only deal directly with the two banned companies after they were banned for stirring up the shit on GWW about our Vegas and Phoenix events, if people cant follow simple instructions, thats not my issue.
For the last time, Lee, as I told you repeatedly on your board, NONE OF THE BANNED companies, NOR THEIR EMPLOYEES, sent me links to that train wreck. WHY would I email you directly when I repeatedly said the aforementioned to you on your board before you closed another thread?
Yes, I am friends with many people in the gay community, including you and Gary Alan the last time I checked. Frankly I probably spend more time with the gay community than 99% of non-gay segment of this industry. I do it because the people I do it with are my friends and we like to hang out. There is no other reason for me to have gotten this link, but that your behaviour alienated people who were not representing any of the banned companies. They were simply shocked and appalled at the attitude you took with the closing threads. Not even so much so the bannings, but the repeated closing of threads.
Originally posted by Lee@Jan 25 2005, 09:34 PM Kimmy, again you may want to check your facts, we didnt drag CCBill into this at all, in fact, CCBill were dragged into it by the two companies who we banned on GWW.
Your post in an earlier thread mentioned sanctioned by CCBill.
I don't work at CCBill any more, its been almost 3 years, thus I wouldn't have any idea of what other parties might have said or started involving them.
So your mention of CCBill above prompted my comments.
Yes, I am friends with many people in the gay community, including you and Gary Alan the last time I checked. Frankly I probably spend more time with the gay community than 99% of non-gay segment of this industry. I do it because the people I do it with are my friends and we like to hang out.
I know you do Kimmy and that wasnt what i said at all, for the record though, yep i think ive seen you surrounded by more gay guys than some of the hot gay guys at the shows lol
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There is no other reason for me to have gotten this link, but that your behaviour alienated people who were not representing any of the banned companies. They were simply shocked and appalled at the attitude you took with the closing threads. Not even so much so the bannings, but the repeated closing of threads.
Kimmy, i appreciate that however, some of the people who initially DID start posting those threads, WERE representing the two banned companies, that is why i decided that ALL threads started on the topic were to be closed until such a time as the BS had calmed down.
We did have several threads later in the day that remained open because the individuals that were starting them purely to disrupt GWW were not 'online' and a genuine discussion could be started on the matter.
I appreciate that you didnt start your thread because you wanted to cause a stir but, i had to be seen as a person not playing favorites to anybody given the situation i was placed in. Im sure you will agree it does nobody any good in situations lik those to play favorites with anybody which was why threads both for and against the bannings were locked, whether they offered praise or not.
Originally posted by *KK*@Jan 25 2005, 09:43 PM Your post in an earlier thread mentioned sanctioned by CCBill.
You are correct in this thread i did post the comments you quoted however, that stemmed from the fact the two banned companies were maliciously telling people our events werent 'sanctioned' by CCBill which simply isnt and never has been the case.
It is also worth noting though that despite the issues those two companies had with Gary and I holding 'non sanctioned' events, they have several of the own that they openly admit arent 'sanctioned' (damn i hate that word LOL)
Lee, I'll quote my grandmother yet again -- you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
One credit I will be more than happy to give the gay webmaster community is their loyalty to the community. It's probably the longest standing alliance within the adult webmaster business.
01-25-2005
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