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Old 01-07-2005   #1
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...MNG2VALREG1.DTL



Kerry cheered in Baghdad, decries Bush team's 'blunders'
Once criticized for war stance, he says force alone won't win
Borzou Daragahi, Chronicle Foreign Service

Thursday, January 6, 2005

Baghdad -- Sen. John Kerry, whose seemingly shifting positions on the U.S. war in Iraq plagued him throughout his presidential campaign, came to this war- torn capital Wednesday to see for himself whether the country was moving toward stability or deeper into chaos.

Kerry, who repeatedly charged during the presidential campaign that President Bush had botched the war effort, was greeted warmly by U.S. soldiers in Baghdad.

"I've been visiting a lot places like Des Moines and Green Bay, and it has been great," the Massachusetts Democrat said during an informal lunch meeting with a small group of reporters and representatives of nongovernmental organizations. "But we are at war, and I think you can't really make all the judgments that you need to make without digging in."

He declined to compare the growing insurgency with the one he faced in South Vietnam as a Navy gunship lieutenant more than three decades ago. But he insisted that superior firepower alone wouldn't quell the uprising disrupting Iraq.

"No insurgency is defeated by conventional military power alone," he said. "Look at the IRA," the Irish Republican Army, which fought a decadeslong guerrilla war against the British in Northern Ireland before a Catholic- Protestant power-sharing government was put in place. "It was defeated by a combination of time and political negotiation."

Kerry, who talked with U.S. intelligence officials and Iraqi officials on Wednesday, was also scheduled to meet with officials of the U.S. Embassy and with members of the interim Iraqi government, including interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi and a deputy to Abdel Aziz al-Hakim, the Shiite leader at the top of an electoral list favored in Iraq's Jan. 30 elections.

U.S. soldiers approached Kerry inside the restaurant of the Rashid Hotel, asking him to pose for photographs and sign T-shirts. The star-struck restaurant manager insisted on serving Kerry the restaurant's specialty, a plate of grilled chicken and lamb.

Later in the day, Kerry met with about 20 soldiers based in his home state, including reservists from the 356th Engineer Detachment and 126th Aviation Company of the Massachusetts Army National Guard at Camp Victory, where soldiers are bivouacked in luxury villas once inhabited by Saddam Hussein and his loyalists.

"They all joked about how living conditions had changed since Sen. Kerry was in Vietnam," said David Wade, the senator's communications director.

Kerry was scheduled to fly on a C-130 military transport plane today to visit troops in Fallujah and Mosul.

The senator said he was more interested in asking questions of soldiers, U.S. officials, Iraqis and even the journalists themselves instead of rehashing the political battles of the past campaign season.

But in several instances, Kerry attacked what he called the "horrendous judgments" and "unbelievable blunders" of the Bush administration. The mistakes, he said, included former U.S. occupation leader Paul Bremer's decisions to disband the Iraqi army and purge the government of former members of Hussein's Baath Party. Both moves are widely believed to have fueled the largely Sunni insurgency.

"What is sad about what's happening here now is that so much of it is a process of catching up from the enormous miscalculations and wrong judgments made in the beginning," he said. "And the job has been made enormously harder."

He added, however, that it was time to move forward.

"Mistakes have been made," he said. "Now, it's a different time and different set of judgments that have to be made. I'm here to make judgments about what moves are available to us."

Kerry is visiting Iraq as part of a Middle East tour that also includes meetings with leaders in Egypt, Israel and the Palestinian territories. He said success in Iraq was vital as part of the struggle for wider change in the Middle East.

"The stakes are very important, very high, and not just for Iraq," he said. "You have another election in the West Bank, a set of challenges to Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the region that are quite daunting."
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Old 01-07-2005   #2
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Great we have a losing candidate for President now bad mouthing the Commander in Chief directly to troops in the field!!

Why don't he just hand out white flags!!!

Fucking liberals wil do anything to undermine this country!!!
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Old 01-07-2005   #3
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Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 7 2005, 05:52 PM
Great we have a losing candidate for President now bad mouthing the Commander in Chief directly to troops in the field!!

Why don't he just hand out white flags!!!

Fucking liberals wil do anything to undermine this country!!!
a voice of reason. At least he went there and you live behind your gated community in Fla flapping your gums. That is just sickening. You have never seen a shot fired in anger. You have never dodged a bullet. You have never layed it on the line in the face of a real enemy and yet you mouth off like a hero. Have you ever felt a 50 cal hit your vehicle? Have you ever been blown off your feet by an rpg? Have you even ever sacrificed a kid for your country? You have no say in this matter. I have tried to remain silent but when I see this kind of cowardice, I cringe. OK, Nick, cut and paste the past if it makes you feel better, but this guy is a woose of the first order. BTW, this post has nothing to do with business.
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Old 01-07-2005   #4
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BTW, Vick, I was keen to answer your post on business and how to survive on the net and prosper, but Nick and Gonzo banned me again. If you would still like a proper response, just ask. If you don't hear from me, Nick has banned me again.
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Old 01-07-2005   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 7 2005, 08:52 PM
Great we have a losing candidate for President now bad mouthing the Commander in Chief directly to troops in the field!!

Why don't he just hand out white flags!!!

Fucking liberals wil do anything to undermine this country!!!
Pull the string, the dolly talks ...
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Old 01-07-2005   #6
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Old 01-07-2005   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 7 2005, 05:52 PM
Great we have a losing candidate for President now bad mouthing the Commander in Chief directly to troops in the field!!

Why don't he just hand out white flags!!!

Fucking liberals wil do anything to undermine this country!!!
notice who was cheering
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Old 01-07-2005   #8
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Old 01-07-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM-->
QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM)
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Old 01-07-2005   #10
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Quote:
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QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 7 2005, 05:59 PM)
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Old 01-07-2005   #11
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Old 01-07-2005   #12
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Quote:
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Quote:
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Old 01-07-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 7 2005, 10:17 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 7 2005, 10:17 PM)
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM
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Old 01-07-2005   #14
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Quote:
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QUOTE (grimm @ Jan 7 2005, 10:22 PM)
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Old 01-07-2005   #15
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Jan 7 2005, 07:32 PM-->
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Old 01-07-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Jan 7 2005, 07:35 PM-->
QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Jan 7 2005, 07:35 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM
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Old 01-07-2005   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 7 2005, 07:27 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 7 2005, 07:27 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM
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Old 01-07-2005   #18
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I keep reading all this draft stuff and it makes me smile.

If people wanted to fuck up the military far beyond belief, start drafting people who don't want to be there.
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Old 01-07-2005   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 7 2005, 07:37 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 7 2005, 07:37 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM
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Old 01-07-2005   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by grimm+Jan 7 2005, 07:42 PM-->
QUOTE (grimm @ Jan 7 2005, 07:42 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM
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Old 01-07-2005   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:42 PM
I keep reading all this draft stuff and it makes me smile.

If people wanted to fuck up the military far beyond belief, start drafting people who don't want to be there.
You are either very young or you have a very, very short memory.
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Old 01-07-2005   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:42 PM
I keep reading all this draft stuff and it makes me smile.

If people wanted to fuck up the military far beyond belief, start drafting people who don't want to be there.
we are a long way off from a draft initiative. but it does loom in the future given current trend of events.. but trends change.
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Old 01-07-2005   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 7 2005, 07:44 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 7 2005, 07:44 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM
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Old 01-07-2005   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 7 2005, 07:44 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 7 2005, 07:44 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM
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Old 01-07-2005   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by grimm+Jan 7 2005, 07:47 PM-->
QUOTE (grimm @ Jan 7 2005, 07:47 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM
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Old 01-07-2005   #26
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and you do cry foul and duck the question whenever whatever short accumen you have.

what do you do?

what are your accomplishments

What are your failures?

Where dod you get stsrted?

What do you have to offer/detract from conversations?
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Old 01-07-2005   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 7 2005, 07:48 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 7 2005, 07:48 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM
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Old 01-07-2005   #28
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Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:49 PM
and you do cry foul and duck the question whenever whatever short accumen you have.

what do you do?

what are your accomplishments

What are your failures?

Where dod you get stsrted?

What do you have to offer/detract from conversations?
Grimm, I have no idea of what you have done or accomplished either. You don't post it all over the boards. Nor do I nor do I need to. Suffice to say that I have been around long enough to make a very good living at this without having to get involved in the "what the fuck are we going to do next thread"
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Old 01-07-2005   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by grimm+Jan 7 2005, 07:50 PM-->
QUOTE (grimm @ Jan 7 2005, 07:50 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM
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Old 01-07-2005   #30
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Quote:
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Old 01-07-2005   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 7 2005, 07:53 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 7 2005, 07:53 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM
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Old 01-07-2005   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by grimm+Jan 7 2005, 08:02 PM-->
QUOTE (grimm @ Jan 7 2005, 08:02 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by grimm@Jan 7 2005, 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM
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Old 01-07-2005   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 7 2005, 10:45 PM
You are either very young or you have a very, very short memory.
Excuse me, dipshit, but I am 51 years old and I spent ten years in what was (at the time) the world's 2nd largest Nuclear Navy (only our sailors didn't glow in the dark very often) - and I joined in the beginning of the all-volunteer force. For a couple of those years, I was in recruiting.

At the height of the cold war we had millions of men waiting for something to happen. A slacker here, a malcontent there was not a big deal. That's not the way it is today. With a force that can't wipe it's collective ass without a massive callup of reserves and guard units, you can't afford to have people who don't want to suit up in the costume of the day and play the part, and you don't have the personnel required to babysit people who don't play by the rules.

The only kind of draft I personally would support would be a flat, across the board, no exemptions, no deferments, take your ass when you are 19 and keep you untily you are 21, and you WILL do something. You can clean toilets in a military barracks, you can clean toilets in an urban school or a rural nursing home, or you can clean toilets in Leavenworth Prison for a couple of years longer than . Dont' fucking matter if your daddy is Bill Gates or your momma don't know who your daddy was, or if you sit to piss or stand to piss - you go.
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Old 01-07-2005   #34
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Old 01-07-2005   #35
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thought you were done. what was the question again?
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Old 01-07-2005   #36
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thought you were done. what was the question again?
I suppose that is up to you Grimm. I was just intrigued by the draft issue. So go ahead and ask. What's on your mind dude?
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Old 01-08-2005   #37
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During the time I was in the service Russians had the largest Nuclear Navy, so yes- I am an American (even though it gall's Mike's ass whenever I say it).

Now ... what the fuck does this mean? "However...the draft...the lottery....GW Bush and his college buddies"?

How, exactly, do you think he and his gated-community cronies are going to institute a draft, and why would they do it?

BTW, Bush had nothing to do with the lottery. The lottery was years away when Daddy pulled the necessary strings to get W into the Texas ANG. He was still three years from going AWOL when the first one took place.

How would they do it? I hear that fear, mostly from the left - but I don't share it. There are battalions of soccer moms who support Bush to the last drop of somebody else's kid's blood who will begin to channel their inner peacenik as soon as it looks like THEIR Johnny or Janey may have to go.

Why would they do it? The JCS don't want it, for the reasons I outlined in my previous post. Implement a draft in this session of Congress and you won't see benefits in manpower for three years at a minimum, because it would take the services time to gear up to handle the extra bodies.

I have a more logical proposal. Increase the size of the military by 50% across the board, active duty and reserves. Give them what they fucking need to do the job, regardless of the political consequences.

Pay them what they are worth. Honor the commitments you make to them when they finish their service.

Oh yeah ... and remember that there are places to fight that are sand challenged. Increase the studies of the toxic effects of rice farts on U.S. troops on a battlerfield - because THAT is the real threat of tomorrow for the United States.
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Old 01-08-2005   #38
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Old 01-08-2005   #39
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 7 2005, 07:11 PM
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Old 01-08-2005   #40
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Old 01-08-2005   #41
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Old 01-08-2005   #42
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