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One group accounts for 99.9% of the obscenity complaints made to the FCC for all issues outside of the Janet boob thing.
2400% increase in reports this year, which chairman Michael Powell used in front of congress as a reason to support tougher fines and actions from the FCC. What he either didn't know or failed to mention was that this one group basically is the ONLY source of complaints.
A concerted attack by a small but well funded group will dictate the obscenity landscape on broadcast TV and radio. Stunning.
Alex
(oh yeah, this isn't another american bashing thread. It's a polite reminder to those who vote and elected a conservative government as to what you get as a result)
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(oh yeah, this isn't another american bashing thread. It's a polite reminder to those who vote and elected a conservative government as to what you get as a result)
hahahaha. putting a disclaimer at the bottom of your posts.
One group accounts for 99.9% of the obscenity complaints made to the FCC for all issues outside of the Janet boob thing.
2400% increase in reports this year, which chairman Michael Powell used in front of congress as a reason to support tougher fines and actions from the FCC. What he either didn't know or failed to mention was that this one group basically is the ONLY source of complaints.
A concerted attack by a small but well funded group will dictate the obscenity landscape on broadcast TV and radio. Stunning.
Alex
(oh yeah, this isn't another american bashing thread. It's a polite reminder to those who vote and elected a conservative government as to what you get as a result)
Originally posted by JR@Dec 7 2004, 02:04 AM I think Alex just wants to get rid of that pesky democracy where peoples voices are heard.
I'm having trouble understanding how you are arriving at that conclusion on the basis of what he posted.
I don't see Alex advocating the elimination of the FCC. I don't even see Alex suggesting that this group that allegedly is responsible for 99.9% of the complaints shouldn't be allowed to make them.
How, exactly, is democracy served if any special interest like this (allgeged) group is allowed to dominate the discussion?
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If FCC was vigilant against sex on TV, the profits of porn industry would only rise.
This group is GOOD for business, the fuckers should pay for boobs on the Internet and not get them for free from public TV!
You have to admit though, democracy or not, this individual group *IS* taking the piss.
I mean seriously, do they not have anything better to do than call up the FCC every time they hear or see something they dont like?
Remember now.. we arent talking about every now and again, we are talking about a group lodging 99.9% of complaints with the FCC, how many of those were upheld and how many werent? Better yet.. how much of OUR tax money was spent because of their actions?
You have to admit though, democracy or not, this individual group *IS* taking the piss.
I mean seriously, do they not have anything better to do than call up the FCC every time they hear or see something they dont like?
Remember now.. we arent talking about every now and again, we are talking about a group lodging 99.9% of complaints with the FCC, how many of those were upheld and how many werent? Better yet.. how much of OUR tax money was spent because of their actions?
it was one group when clear channel took Stern off the air.
no one cared. there were no protests in the streets.
thats my point. the system works as it was designed to work. that same system allows for everyone to voice their opinion. when you are exploiting google to get higher PR... you are not concerned about fairness, you are concerned about getting results.
I dont agree that its a good thing. I am simply saying that people are to blame as well. had it not been for the apathy of the masses, they would be countered by an equal and opposite voice. however, there is none. most people don't care.
Originally posted by JR@Dec 7 2004, 05:02 AM it does not guarantee equality of outcome.
But dont you find something inherantly wrong with that irrespective of whether or not we, you or, i have had anything to do with the decision making process?
The FCC (in this instance) shouldnt be basing their decisions on one group but rather a wide reach, hell th whole Janet nipple slip incident was completely blown out of proportion imho. So some skank showed her nipple on national TV.. its no different in my view than most of the shit you see on MTV these days.
However, claiming something is 'wrong' without having some kind of formula that works other than antiquainted rules which seriously need to be re-written is just crazy, it benefits nobody in the end ultimately.
We'll be back in the dark ages if something isnt done soon.
You have to admit though, democracy or not, this individual group *IS* taking the piss.
I mean seriously, do they not have anything better to do than call up the FCC every time they hear or see something they dont like?
Remember now.. we arent talking about every now and again, we are talking about a group lodging 99.9% of complaints with the FCC, how many of those were upheld and how many werent? Better yet.. how much of OUR tax money was spent because of their actions?
What would you, Alex or PD propose as an alternative? I wholeheartedly disagree with the group in question and everything they stand for but I don't disagree with their voicing their opinions. According to the PTC website, they have one million members. Do they deserve a voice?
Well, how about the "American Civil Liberties Union"? Don't they "dictate the standards" also? Hasn't the ACLU, an organized group of libertarians had an influence on american politics and standards well beyong their number of members? Wasn't it the ACLU that managed to get CDA and CDA II overturned?
How about the Rainbow Coalition? How about NOW?
What version of Democracy would permit one brand of special interest group to survive and not another?
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What would you, Alex or PD propose as an alternative? I wholeheartedly disagree with the group in question and everything they stand for but I don't disagree with their voicing their opinions. According to the PTC website, they have one million members. Do they deserve a voice?
I dont disagree they shouldnt be allowed to voice their opinions / concerns either however, voicing their opinion / concerns and blatently abusing the system are two different matters all together. Its like comparing apples and oranges.
The group in question are obviously tying to force their views on others through the FCC by applying [as i already mentioned] antiquainted standards.
For one of the free-est (is that a word?) countries in the world, there is a hell of a lot of shit we can do, say, watch in the US.
Quote:
What version of Democracy would permit one brand of special interest group to survive and not another?
No version would however, at the same time, the version we have now obviously isnt working like it should.
Dont get me wrong im dfinately NOT saying focus groups shouldnt have their say. Im saying when it comes to focus groups creating 99.9% of a workload that costs the tax payer money.. thats when something needs to be done about it. Its abuse of the system, nothing more, nothing less.
Originally posted by JR@Dec 7 2004, 05:17 AM what would be the most realistic position if your true concern was fairness?
Re-write the rule book and not just for this stuff in this instance, from what i can tell [im no expert by any means] but there are a shitload of laws that serve nothing more than being used as leverage when it suits either side of a specific arument.
What version of Democracy would permit one brand of special interest group to survive and not another?
i can answer that. they would support the version of democracy where they agreed with all the decisions all the time. unfortuneately it only exists in the utopian pardise known as the land of the happyt unicorns. you need to be blessed with the special gift of make believe to go there. apparently, we "just don't get it"
Colin, the system itself isn't defective. People should have the right to voice an opinion.
I have a problem with organized groups that attempt to abuse systems in order to effect change. If these are truly "moral" people, they would not be watching a "cheating spouses" show to start with. I suspect that in the 1 million members, less than 1% of them actually watch the shows that they complain about. As mentioned in the article, once the FCC starts removing compaints from people who "just heard about the bad thing", the numbers drop very quickly.
Organized campaigns don't require original thought from the complainers: Just go here, click on this link, and a premade complaint will be formed up and sent to the FCC. That isn't complaining, that is just clicking buttons.
It's the old rule from prize drawings: hand written entries only, no mechanical reproductions. What the PTC does is the equivilant of stuffing the drawing bin. Their members are not expressing their PERSONAL outrage at something, just towing the group line.
I would suspect that if they went further and investigated, they would find that the submitting IP address on many of these was the same, I wouldn't put it past a group like this to have a system automatically send 1 complaint for each member automatically.
Does that 2400% increase in complaints mean that any more people were TRULY offended by what they INDIVIDUALLY saw on tv? I don't think so. Michael Powell, in presenting these raw numbers to congress may have attempted to use this as justification for some very agressive actions where less over the top fines were not normally justified. I applaud fox for taking this one man censorship committee to task in the courts.
Alex
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Originally posted by Lee@Dec 7 2004, 08:17 AM No version would however, at the same time, the version we have now obviously isnt working like it should.
I strongly disagree. I think it's working exactly as it should. After the Janet Jackson incident, a nationwide debate ensued. An international debate in some ways. There were op-ed pieces debating each side of the controversy. These debates occured in American newspapers, magazines, radio and TV talk shows and on the internet. T
There were fines and now there are appeals to a court of law.
So one group has dominated the obscenity complaints. An American writer discovers and criticizes this. The article and contents of the story are picked up by many other American media sources.
How is this not the democratic process?
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That's it. Go to the website, click SEND and you just complained.
Man, that takes a whole pile of moral outrage to do. You have to be offended to the max to complain to the FCC about it.
YEAH RIGHT.
Alex
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Originally posted by RawAlex@Dec 7 2004, 08:28 AM I have a problem with organized groups that attempt to abuse systems in order to effect change. ...Organized campaigns don't require original thought from the complainers: Just go here, click on this link, and a premade complaint will be formed up and sent to the FCC. That isn't complaining, that is just clicking buttons.
On the ACLU website you can send a letter to your senator "Urging the Administration to Release all Torture-Related Documents " with two clicks. The letter is pre-written. You can also oppose a Federal Marriage Amendment or oppose changes to immigration law.
Now I think if you feel strongly about such a thing you should go ahead and click those buttons. If people feel strongly opposed they should organize opposing websites
How long would slavery have lasted in the world without all the various abolitionist groups and efforts? How would women's suffrage have ever happened in the western world without such groups? Sure, 90% of the participant weren't involved in "original thought". Sure, they parroted the slogans of the women's rights movement or the abolitionist movement.
But these were democratic processes just the same as the ones under discussion.
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Originally posted by Lee@Dec 7 2004, 08:50 AM Colin, no offece to you dude but do you really think the whole nipple incident was done for any reason other than marketing?
If it had happened during any other performance or event than the Superbowl do you think it would have received as much attention as it did?
The whole thing was a well planned and well thought out marketing ploy for one or all of the parties involved including the Superbowl.
Where did I say ANYTHING about the motivation of those involved?
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Originally posted by RawAlex@Dec 7 2004, 08:38 AM Okay, found their website, and here is an example of what people have to do to complain online (Heck, you can do it too!)
Originally posted by Lee@Dec 7 2004, 09:07 AM But it still doesnt change the fact that the whole 'Janet' incident is another reason why the current system doesnt work... As it should.
Please respond to my reply then. I still don't know in what way you are saying the current version of Democracy doesn't work. It's not like we're making her drink hemlock.
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Don't these people have a right to do this, just like Michael Moore has right to make anti-American movies?
I do not support them, I think its pretty funny, but they do have a right to it.
I also think the SuperBowl situation was dissappointing - its a family, all-American event that is on pretty early. What Janet and timberlake did should have consequences. The nipple did it not bother me, but to those it did I can see their point.
It's not like people can say " Well what do you expect, if you don't like it don't watch"
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I'd much rather my kids watch a tv commercial about 4 hour erections than a black woman's boob popping out on tv....
if the superbowl is so family friendly, why do they have ads for sexual enhancers and beer?
I'd rather do nothing more than explain to my 8 year old daughter about 4 hour erections while sharing a budweiser....
Actually, I've started my own forms of protest...every time I hear someone on TV say "god bless you" when someone else sneezes, I get my trigger finger ready to fire off a complaint to the FCC.
I've already written letters/emails to many of the sponsors the PTC claims to have worked with to stop buying ads or pulling ads and I'm surprised how many "official" replies I've gotten that things on that site were taken out of context. I've also scored a lot of freebies ;-))
Originally posted by Colin+Dec 7 2004, 09:03 AM-->
QUOTE (Colin @ Dec 7 2004, 09:03 AM)
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240,000 complaints total. Only 480 of them were from "non group members".
Is that not a little out of line?
Alex
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I don't see anything wrong with any group - including left-handed celebrate gay blonde bald agnostic recovering lutherans - petitioning the government on any issue they want to petition them on. That would include the born-agains who want "racey" television to be to the standards of "I Love Lucy", or the ACLU advocating that gay marriage be imposed on people.
Anyone who makes the arguement that a governmental body responding to that kind of manipulated barrage of complaints is truly being "democratic" either has way too much time on their hands (making specious arguments for something to do), or is dumber'n a box of rocks.
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Dec 7 2004, 05:50 PM I don't see anything wrong with any group - including left-handed celebrate gay blonde bald agnostic recovering lutherans - petitioning the government on any issue they want to petition them on. That would include the born-agains who want "racey" television to be to the standards of "I Love Lucy", or the ACLU advocating that gay marriage be imposed on people.
Anyone who makes the arguement that a governmental body responding to that kind of manipulated barrage of complaints is truly being "democratic" either has way too much time on their hands (making specious arguments for something to do), or is dumber'n a box of rocks.
But the gay lefties are just as bad.. if not worse the righties
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12-07-2004
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