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I thought it was mostly a toss-up as to who did better than the other.
Kerry looked tired to me, speaking with less conviction than the other two debates. Bush looked more confident and less defensive.
But overall I though it was kinda boring after having seen the first two.
I noted Kerry talk about God a little more than I thought he would.
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P.S. I wasn't watching the debates and was enjoying osobuco cooked by MikeW instead,
with a nice bottle of Priorat, of course...
I thgink we enjoyed it more than either of the candidates enjoyed each other's company
;-)))
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Oct 13 2004, 10:22 PM P.S. I wasn't watching the debates and was enjoying osobuco cooked by MikeW instead,
with a nice bottle of Priorat, of course...
I thgink we enjoyed it more than either of the candidates enjoyed each other's company
;-)))
Absolutely no doubt about it.
Like Kerry says... you have a better plan!
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Originally posted by Evil Chris+Oct 13 2004, 10:23 PM-->
QUOTE (Evil Chris @ Oct 13 2004, 10:23 PM)
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Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Oct 13 2004, 09:22 PM P.S. I wasn't watching the debates and was enjoying osobuco cooked by MikeW instead,
with a nice bottle of Priorat, of course...
I thgink we enjoyed it more than either of the candidates enjoyed each other's company
;-)))
oh my god i LOVE osso buco!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(especially since I got a slow cooker for xmas) ;-)))
there was a debate?!
i'm so over it that i turned it off & put on some tina turner music instead
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 14 2004, 12:07 AM-->
QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 14 2004, 12:07 AM)
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Evil Chris@Oct 13 2004, 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Oct 14 2004, 12:18 AM I honestly believe we would be WORSE with Gore,
but in a different "worse".
Bush went to fast,
with Gore we'd be still "building coalition" and debate in UN either we should go into Afganistan or not
;-)))
I agree with you Serge.
I also think Kerry would be worse then Bush these next 4 years.
Not that there would be much of a real effect on my life, I doubt
Kerry would be as incompetent as Carter.
Plus there would be a good chance of Republicans holding on to congress,
and a split gov't can be a good thing. Though I would prefer a Democratic
Congress, and a Republican President.
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Serge, I am still not convinced that Bush learned anything from 9/11 accept to be pissed off. His actions since that time have, in my mind, created more terrorists and more terrorists acts than anyone could of imagined.
When I think about Bush, all I wonder is this: Does anyone want four more years of what just passed? Is that the best americans could get out of a president? I think change is good, especially if things end up with democrat in the whitehouse, house republican, and congress close split one way or the other. That keeps things from swinging too far one way or the other.
Alex
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Originally posted by RawAlex@Oct 13 2004, 11:45 PM I think change is good, especially if things end up with democrat in the whitehouse, house republican, and congress close split one way or the other. That keeps things from swinging too far one way or the other.
The House of Representatives is part of the Congress, Alex. The US Congress is made up of two parts, the House and the Senate. Right now, both are Republican. So I imagine what you're saying is you'd like to see the Congress Republican and the Whitehouse Democratic if there's going to be a split.
Mike, of course, would like a Republican President if there's going to be a split, most likely because he'd like strict constitutionalist judges appointed as well as someone willing to go to war.
I'd like Congress to disband and the President to resign.
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Serge, do you realize you are supporting the same candidate as Raw Alex, Joesho, Evil Chris, 80% of GFY, Canadiens, French....
Think about it.
My concern is that Kerry will go about handling terrorism as a criminal matter like President's before Bush. This would only encourage, and embolden terrorists and protract the war we are in by years - which would end up costing many more American lives, and well as treasure.
If Kerry does not cut and run in Iraq, if he puts serious pressure on Iran/Syria/N.Korea - I could live with higher taxs....
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I was dissapointed to see Kerry try to attempt to pander to the religious card...
that was a poor choice I think.
I would say he won again though... that makes 3-0 in my book, I guess the number four in november will be the mandate the country follows, nothing left now but to watch and see......
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Oct 14 2004, 09:24 AM Mike,
what exactly do you have in mind to do with well fed and drunk cj?
;-))))
Somehow I'm remembering "Mr. Serge, Professor of Art and Sculpture" ;-))))
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Originally posted by sextoyking@Oct 14 2004, 11:36 AM If Kerry does not cut and run in Iraq, if he puts serious pressure on Iran/Syria/N.Korea - I could live with higher taxs....
What? Why?
You're saying you'd be open to paying higher taxes to pay immeasurable amounts of money far away? Not me... no way. Feed, clothe, and house people at home first.
Personally, I think the number one issue facing the US goverment in either this next term or the one after that will be energy. The world is running on fumes. Oil is running out. Time to think of alternative fuel and energy sources.
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I thought Bush looked as bad in this one as he did in the first. Somebody needs to clean the CD in his head ... their is a flaw or speck of dust on the track about jobs, and it skips right over to "No Child Left Behind."
A junior high school stoner could have recognized the dodge on the "litmus test for judges" line - he looked like a deer caught in the headlights when asked directly about his attitude toward Roe v Wade.
The "Tony Soprano" line was the best of all the debates.
As far as some of the crap I see posted in this thread ... I've said this before, but it bears repeating.
Anybody who thinks that the INITIAL response to Afghanistan by a President Gore would have been substantially different from President Bush's is out of their mind. We were attacked by a terrorist group based in Afghanistan, and the Afghan government refused to turn them over. No country would have (or did) object to the actions we took.
After that ... it's a whole different ball of wax.
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Buff, in case you haven't done the math, oil is running out. With the increased uses in China amoungst others, the demand on the oil supply is finally starting to outstrip supply. At some point, the proven reserves will start to dry out and the ramp-up will really start.
The current prices reflect supply shortage, shortage of refinery space, increased demand, and RISK (was in Iraq, strikes in Nigeria, etc).
We are a few large bombs in Iraq away from a true oil panic.
Alex
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Overall Kerry won - he took more votes from the debates than what Bush did.... however with less than 20 days left, then alot can happen - will be interesting too see if the anti-bushies are right about Osama being pulled captured within the next 20 days :-)))
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Originally posted by RawAlex@Oct 14 2004, 12:11 PM Buff, in case you haven't done the math, oil is running out. With the increased uses in China amoungst others, the demand on the oil supply is finally starting to outstrip supply. At some point, the proven reserves will start to dry out and the ramp-up will really start.
The current prices reflect supply shortage, shortage of refinery space, increased demand, and RISK (was in Iraq, strikes in Nigeria, etc).
We are a few large bombs in Iraq away from a true oil panic.
Alex
Alex, it's only in the low $50s per barrel. If it were running out, it would be in the thousands of $$ per barrel.
and a bunch more. There is a solid potential that we will burn through the oil before you run out of viagra.
Alex
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People have been saying we are running out of oil, for almost as long as some have said the end of the world is coming.
I am digging expensive oil, I think it;s going to produce some serious efforts to find alternative fuels - not by gov't research, but by private industry.
The free market will continue to operate, and will move technology. Heck, innovations may even make it to Canada one day!
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Originally posted by wig@Oct 14 2004, 06:01 PM Hey Mike... I think you are right on with your last statement.
The chicken littles can keep running scared while the marketplace will dictate when technologies rae the most viable.
Have any leads to look at?
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Originally posted by wig@Oct 14 2004, 06:01 PM Hey Mike... I think you are right on with your last statement.
The chicken littles can keep running scared while the marketplace will dictate when technologies rae the most viable.
One person's chicken little is another person's industrious squirrel hoarding nuts for the winter.
I will give you this, however - faith is a beautiful thing.
In a perfect world, you would be 100% correct. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world.
I liken your assumption that we can depend upon markets alone to solve the energy crisis to the assumption that we could have waited for market forces to develop nulcear weapons before the controlled economies of the dictators did so.
The comparisson to the Manhattan Project is deliberate, btw ... a project of that magnitude could probably significantly reduce our dependence upon oil dramatically.
Of course, there are significant market forces that would do everything in their power to STOP that from happening, now, aren't there?
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It is safe, the last plant was built 20+ years ago. Think of the technological advances we should be able to employ.
It's not a solution for everything, but it can play a part.
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Other power sources are important, and I also think the market will be able to do large part of it, however the free market will never invest heavily in other energy sources as long oil is cheap... so while the current oil price will hurt the economy, then it might just be what we need to get more money into the renewable energy sector.
Beside other sources of energy, then conserving energy might be the biggest short term payoff. Ex. in Europe they have plans to start building houses, which uses 50% less energy than average houses today and you can already buy gas-electric hybrid cars (most fuel efficient cars on the road)... we already have lots of options - we just need someone to take the lead (ex. a US president).
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laugh if you want too, but the oils, and other properties in the marijuana plant, could be developed into an ethonal type of fuel, and maintain a sustainable yeild for all time.
Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 14 2004, 05:06 PM People have been saying we are running out of oil, for almost as long as some have said the end of the world is coming.
I am digging expensive oil, I think it;s going to produce some serious efforts to find alternative fuels - not by gov't research, but by private industry.
The free market will continue to operate, and will move technology. Heck, innovations may even make it to Canada one day!
Do you know what % of fossil fuels used in the USA come from Canada?
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The market dictates which technology lives and dies, true enough, but it does it too late to be much of a help. Without forward thinking people looking at hydrogen and other power sources, there would be no replacement on the current internal combustion gasoline engines automobile. Gas has been the cheap and easy solution for 100 years now, but that might not always be the case. By the time the market gets around to pricing gas out of people's reach, it will already be very close to crisis.
$100 a barrel oil would certain make some other technologies look more interesting.
If 3% of the world oil production was to be forced off today, the panic would start, because we are that close. The panic to get Iraq back to producing noticable levels of oil output is easy to feel. The terrorist types know it too!
Alex
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Originally posted by Evil Chris+Oct 15 2004, 08:24 AM-->
QUOTE (Evil Chris @ Oct 15 2004, 08:24 AM)
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One person's chicken little is another person's industrious squirrel hoarding nuts for the winter.
And this is important why? Do you worry about the world running out of oil before it implements an alternative? Do you have the same doom and gloom visions expressed by some here?
Quote:
I will give you this, however - faith is a beautiful thing.
uh... faith in what?
Quote:
In a perfect world, you would be 100% correct. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world.
No shit?
[quote]I liken your assumption that we can depend upon markets alone to solve the energy crisis to the assumption that we could have waited for market forces to develop nulcear weapons before the controlled economies of the dictators did so.[quote]
Maybe you should be more careful to not assume. I'm not saying anything about dependence. I am stating how it works in reality.
Quote:
The comparisson to the Manhattan Project is deliberate, btw ... a project of that magnitude could probably significantly reduce our dependence upon oil dramatically.
Of course, there are significant market forces that would do everything in their power to STOP that from happening, now, aren't there?
Yes, PD... market forces work in all directions. But the cycle of growth and decay, catastrophe and renewal continue. Market forces, whatever their origin or purpose, ARE the driving force for change in the world and they always have been.
10-13-2004
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