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Actually, Bowling for Columbine got an award when it was shown at cannes as well, not the palme d'or, but something of note. That had nothing to do with Bush, and still it got noticed. You might not agree with the message, but I can tell you from all I have learned in the last year at school, Michael Moore sure knows how to make a movie, tell a story, and keep everything solidly on course. Not matter how absurd the situation, it is easy to relate to the situations and easy to follow his logic.
Giving awards for making good films is different from agreeing with the content of the film.
It's just one of those things.
Alex
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Originally posted by dig420@May 23 2004, 02:04 PM
I've given JR plenty of rope, and so far I've found out that educated people are nefarious evil 'elites', I should shut up and trust the government not to abuse their police power, everybody the world over hates George Bush for no reason, and truck drivers from Alabama are the best, brightest and smartest people in the world.
i have never said anything like that. you make these sorts of remarks because you cannot make a real argument with any defensible points. you are confusing me with Mike
Originally posted by RawAlex@May 23 2004, 04:59 PM Actually, Bowling for Columbine got an award when it was shown at cannes as well, not the palme d'or, but something of note. That had nothing to do with Bush, and still it got noticed. You might not agree with the message, but I can tell you from all I have learned in the last year at school, Michael Moore sure knows how to make a movie, tell a story, and keep everything solidly on course. Not matter how absurd the situation, it is easy to relate to the situations and easy to follow his logic.
Giving awards for making good films is different from agreeing with the content of the film.
It's just one of those things.
Alex
You know for a fact that a film that ripped Stalin or Lenin or Mao a new asshole would never win shit at that leftard film festival. It would probably get burned.
Those who worship French culture and/or seek French validation are obviously going to be leftists and will always be a great source of amusement to those of us who know we're superior to those assclowns.
Buff, you and Mike are both not understanding: The Cannes festival happens in France, but the jury was made up mostly of people from countries that went to Iraq to fight.
It ain't a "leftard" thing.
When it comes to politics, you and Mike are bum buddies! :-)
Alex
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Originally posted by RawAlex@May 24 2004, 09:01 AM Buff, you and Mike are both not understanding: The Cannes festival happens in France, but the jury was made up mostly of people from countries that went to Iraq to fight.
It ain't a "leftard" thing.
When it comes to politics, you and Mike are bum buddies! :-)
Alex
Alex, I bet you think the media is non-biased as well....
Come on, look who is at Cannes.... run a poll, I bet the majority of the people who are there, who are participating and are judges are liberals.
It is no big deal. Most people in the ARTS tend to be liberal.
Just like at an NRA meeting, you could presume most of the people there are conservative. If Moore played his movie there, do you think it would have got a standing ovation?
Buff and I are just small cogs in the vast right wing conspiracy....
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Originally posted by Mike AI@May 24 2004, 09:06 AM Just like at an NRA meeting, you could presume most of the people there are conservative. If Moore played his movie there, do you think it would have got a standing ovation?
Um, I'm an NRA member and have several family members who are lifetime NRA members and we all got a kick out of "Bowling For Columbine"
Mike, each and every media outlet is biased in some way. There are humans involved at each level who have opinions, prejudices, and preconceived notions about how the world works.
From the reporter to the editor to the producer to the presenter to the owner of the station / network, each of them has some influence as to what parts of the story will be presented, and what parts won't.
However, because you sit so far to one side, you will see more of the media being biased because almost everyone is left of you (I think Rush and O'Reilly are left of you, really), and as a result, you will see the media as being very heavily "leftard". That is because what you are seeing in the media does not match up to the opinions, prejudices and preconcieved notions that you have about the world and how it works.
NRA sure wouldn't applaud MM movies mostly because MM made Charlton Heston look like a nimrod in his last movie. I suspect he wouldn't get a big round of applause at the national gun dealers meeting either, nor probably not a GM board meeting. Mostly because he revealed too much to the world about each of those groups, and made them look foolish.
Alex
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Alex I just choose the NRA randomly, you could plug in any conservative group....
To say the award is not a political thing give no credibility at all. We all live in the real world.
I read on Drudge how the judges keep trying to explain that it was not political, that it was best film. And to some of them that may be true. But if it was not political why do they keep having to explain why. ( Apparenlty this if the first time ever....)
IN the big scheme of things, it's a non-issue. I think most people could care less what the people at the Cannes film fest think. I doubt it leads to many more ticket sales anywhere in the world.
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Oh yeah, Mike, every study film making? Ever wonder why some films you never hear about win awards?
It is because there is a difference between a well made "best film" and a film that you agree to the content of. Agreeing or disagreeing with the content of the film doesn't make it a better or worse movie, just a movie you don't personally agree with.
MM techniques over the last 10 years have advanced very far, and his overall approach in movie making is entertaining, to the point, and yet very comfortable to watch. You might not agree with the content, but if you studied film making even slightly you would see where MM's whole technique and style are very special.
Alex
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Alex, I am not debating if Moore's skills have gotten better. They have, I remember seeing his first movie and thinking it was boring - there were a few good parts.
I never said Moore was a poor filmmaker, I said he was a great propagandist.... an he is. He also found a niche of pandering to a core group of people,and he will continue to milk it for as long as he can.
Nothing moore, nothing less!
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That is like saying, Grogan hot for new guicci wallet!
HAHAHA
Of course Hollywood is hot for it..... just like they were anti-Passion, and anti-Gibson.
Wonder which move will make more and which will get wider distribution??
Wake up Alex.
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Mike, I am wide awake. Hollywood is hot for the film because (1) they will make money from it (docs like this are cheap as chips to make, net money very large) and (2) it supports a point of view many of INDIVIDUALS in the hollywood world hold.
Careful Mike you are getting so close to that cliff at the end of rightsville, the one that drops you into kooksville.
Alex
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Originally posted by Mike AI@May 24 2004, 10:07 AM Alex, I am not debating if Moore's skills have gotten better. They have, I remember seeing his first movie and thinking it was boring - there were a few good parts.
I never said Moore was a poor filmmaker, I said he was a great propagandist.... an he is. He also found a niche of pandering to a core group of people,and he will continue to milk it for as long as he can.
Nothing moore, nothing less!
Yes, and he got an award at Cannes for film making.
What part of this are you not grasping?
Alex
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I haven't seen the movie but I'm willing to speculate that the 20 minutes or so ovation was more about the politics of the film than the technique and style. It's a political film in a political year.
Is Michael Moore's technique and style so amazing as to warrant the longest ovation at Cannes in 25 years? If so he will have come a long, long way from his last movie.
Now maybe I'm wrong and Fahrenheit 911 really does make cinematographic history. Maybe with the extra budget and improvements Moore really is as good a filmmaker as a Roberto Benigni.
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Verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry interestink. But so stupid.
Ummmm ... has it occurred to anyone that MAYBE the film community is at least as disturbed by the (business decision to withhold)(attempt to suppress) this film as they fond of its anti-Bush character? That kinda hits close to home to those folks, you know?
I have to admit that denying that the anti-Bush nature of Moore's films probably played a role in the 20-minute ovation puts you squarely in the middle of De Nile in a pair of concrete boots.
And Sykboy ... be kind to our neo-con friends. Pull the string, the dolly talks. Mention film and France in the same sentence and the Pavlovian repsonse has GOT to include the word "elite." It's how they are wired. (Mike gets bonus points for making Hollywood anti-Jesus, btw.)
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@May 24 2004, 01:58 PM Verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry interestink. But so stupid.
Ummmm ... has it occurred to anyone that MAYBE the film community is at least as disturbed by the (business decision to withhold)(attempt to suppress) this film as they fond of its anti-Bush character? That kinda hits close to home to those folks, you know?
I have to admit that denying that the anti-Bush nature of Moore's films probably played a role in the 20-minute ovation puts you squarely in the middle of De Nile in a pair of concrete boots.
And Sykboy ... be kind to our neo-con friends. Pull the string, the dolly talks. Mention film and France in the same sentence and the Pavlovian repsonse has GOT to include the word "elite." It's how they are wired. (Mike gets bonus points for making Hollywood anti-Jesus, btw.)
PD I did not say all movie fests nor all things french are elitist. I was specificly refering to Cannes.
I missed an opportunity to go a few years ago with some friends. I have first hand reports that it is indeed an elitist event. Want proof? Go there next year.... see how much it costs you.
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Originally posted by Mike AI@May 24 2004, 02:48 PM I missed an opportunity to go a few years ago with some friends. I have first hand reports that it is indeed an elitist event. Want proof? Go there next year.... see how much it costs you.
Actually, all of the film fests have priced themselves out of reach of the common man ;-)
Hell, even the festival they have here is pricey for such a new fest.
Does that make it elitist? Maybe, but that doesn't mean their opinion of films is any greater or lessor than anyone else.
If anyone wants to see a good documentary that is just as political, though probably better researched ;-), watch "Fog Of War".
Mike, you use "elitist" instead of "expensive"... are you suggesting you are elitist because you can afford to go to the Cannes festival?
Nope.
Nor is cannes filled with nothing but Bush hating french nationals.
Your logic is fractured.
Alex
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05-23-2004
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