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Old 05-22-2004   #1
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yep thats right, all you fans of the new patriot act, allowing for all those extended stays in jail without the opportunity to speak with a lawyer.

Well I think this one is gonna cost ya....

Portland , Oregon ( home to many true patriots) is where this travesty of justice LOL took place.

you see they placed this lawyer in jail, raided his home, and his bussiness, siezed his propety to investigate, all with out any warrents ( claimed he was a terrorist sympathiser of course) hah I bet most of the republican sheep believed it too, just like they did richard Jewell ( only Jewell had rights, and bail, and a lawyer, etc... you see the difference yet?)

well to summarize..... THEY FUCKED UP!!!!!

oops it was a mistake of identity they said....
now they let the guy go, admit he is innnocent, and get this...

they make him agree to a gag order to let him out!!!!!!

republicans have trampled the constitution to the dirt... please bring back the constitution and all of it's protections... ( am I unpatriotic now, or just a stupid liberal, because I want our rights (the ones that created this great nation remember?) back? )

weigh in let me here what the patriots have to say now?

do we live in a third world country now with no laws?
are we in Iraq being ruled by a dictator?
would theybe more likely to do this in a place like afghanistan or does it really exsist in America?
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Old 05-22-2004   #2
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Do you have a link? Or do we take your word on it?
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Old 05-22-2004   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@May 22 2004, 06:14 AM
Do you have a link? Or do we take your word on it?
well, as you know, I am not a big fan of bullshit, but I will look for a link...
or I will mail you the paper if it is not being spoke about nationally....
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Old 05-22-2004   #4
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http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf...l?oregonian?ede


I did however quote the wrong law used for the abuse....
it is the material witness law, not the patriot act.... but you see the potential to abuse either one.

and of course you KNOW that they are .
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Old 05-22-2004   #5
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MikeAI,
I followed thsi case from the start and unfortunatelly it's all true
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Old 05-22-2004   #6
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You know, I must say that I agree on several principles of the republican party, and I also agree with the constitution...

it is the abuses that are taking place, and the lies, and the rhetoric as oppossed to the actions that I am against...

in fact I see the glass as half empty when I view these events unfolding before our eyes, all in the name of patriotism.

who is the true patriot?
the one who sees injustice and questions it?
or the one who says no questions please or you are our enemy?
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Old 05-22-2004   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by JoesHO1@May 22 2004, 10:11 AM

or the one who says no questions please or you are our enemy?
The Communist Party of the Soviet Union made it state politics and look where it got them....
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Old 05-22-2004   #8
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Aw, come on ...

he's a gawddamned Muslim and probably a gawddamned liberal

and above all, a gawddamned lawyer.

what right thinking 'merikin gives a fine flying fuck what they do to him?

(I'm just wondering who's gonna be a-screechin' and a-screamin' when Attorney General Ted Kennedy uses these laws to go after groups who advocate killin' baby-killin' doctors, the good folks workin' to protect America by defendin' the white race, and 2nd-Ammendment defenders who have taken to the woods to prepare for Helter-Skelter?)
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Old 05-22-2004   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by JoesHO1@May 22 2004, 09:01 AM
they make him agree to a gag order to let him out!!!!!!
same with my friend and a former business partner who got thoroughly buttfucked by the IRS. Several years and millions of dollars later, he won...but was broke and had to sign a gag order...
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Old 05-22-2004   #10
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- Every single law WILL get used in the worst possible way.

- Every provision of a law that legislators assures us that will not get used WILL get used in the very worst way.

that's a law of the Nature of Lawmakers...
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Old 05-22-2004   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@May 22 2004, 08:02 AM
Aw, come on ...

he's a gawddamned Muslim and probably a gawddamned liberal

and above all, a gawddamned lawyer.

what right thinking 'merikin gives a fine flying fuck what they do to him?

(I'm just wondering who's gonna be a-screechin' and a-screamin' when Attorney General Ted Kennedy uses these laws to go after groups who advocate killin' baby-killin' doctors, the good folks workin' to protect America by defendin' the white race, and 2nd-Ammendment defenders who have taken to the woods to prepare for Helter-Skelter?)
The only thing attorney general ted kennedy would do is find a way not to prosecute people for young girls who drown in cars while the drivers "miraculously" survive...and forget to report it to the police for a day or so....funny how that goes - another "coincidence"?



Last edited by aeon at May 22 2004, 11:11 AM
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Old 05-22-2004   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@May 22 2004, 08:14 AM
Do you have a link? Or do we take your word on it?
I wouldn't. Interpol said that his fingerprints were found in Spain on a bag containing bomb supplies tied to the Madrid bombing. It turned out to be wrong; but at least they didn't murder his wife and kid ala Ruby Ridge...
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Old 05-22-2004   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by aeon+May 22 2004, 11:07 AM-->
QUOTE (aeon @ May 22 2004, 11:07 AM)
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Old 05-22-2004   #14
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Ted Kennedy??? WTF

Bobby get a bullet
John gets a bullet

Teddy must not have been worth the gunpowder

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Old 05-23-2004   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Torone+May 22 2004, 04:09 PM-->
QUOTE (Torone @ May 22 2004, 04:09 PM)
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Old 05-23-2004   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by dig420+May 22 2004, 11:42 PM-->
QUOTE (dig420 @ May 22 2004, 11:42 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by -Torone@May 22 2004, 04:09 PM
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Old 05-23-2004   #17
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Discuss.
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Old 05-23-2004   #18
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JR ... what's to discuss? There are bad guys in Oregon.

I don't think that means that everyone in Oregon is a bad guy.

I don't think that even means that every Muslim in Oregon is a bad guy.
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Old 05-23-2004   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@May 22 2004, 10:48 PM
JR ... what's to discuss? There are bad guys in Oregon.

I don't think that means that everyone in Oregon is a bad guy.

I don't think that even means that every Muslim in Oregon is a bad guy.
there is nothing to discuss. i was just trying to be annoying.




there has not been any terrorist attacks since 9/11 on US soil. many cells have been broken up. many people arrested. lots of funds frozen and people brought to justice all over the globe.

what is the count now in all the "taking away your rights rhetoric" in the count of terrorists busted vs. "innocent' being wrongly treated or accused? something like several thousand to 2 (Padilla and this guy).

yawn.

you can't make an omlett without breaking any eggs.




i am going to go cower in the corner now expecting the government to kick in my door at any second and take me a away for no reason and detain me without cause or explanation while while chanting "meni is right... meni is right" until the next election.


NOT!



Last edited by JR at May 22 2004, 11:42 PM
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Old 05-23-2004   #20
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yeah that'll be cool until you're the egg. When they're doing it to us the anti-porn people will be saying the same thing you're saying now.

The omelette thing really isn't much of a defense.

So we're supposed to give Bush credit that there haven't been major attacks like WTC since 9/11? Fuck that. It happened on his watch, through his inattention and foreign policy incompetence. Who gets credit for all the attacks that didn't happen before his presidency? Clinton?

Do you really consider protesting the ceding of yet more of our liberty to an overintrusive government sheer rhetoric? What's high minded policy discourse to you? Making fun of the French maybe, or ridiculing all the liberals who are just too dumb to shut up and trust the government like you do?

"i am going to go cower in the corner now expecting the government to kick in my door at any second and take me a away for no reason and detain me without cause or explanation" -- if they can do it to one citizen, they can do it to any other, including you. We would have been the #1 enemy of the state if Osama hadn't hogged all the headlines.



Last edited by dig420 at May 23 2004, 02:52 AM
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Old 05-23-2004   #21
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well said
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Old 05-23-2004   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by JR+May 22 2004, 11:37 PM-->
QUOTE (JR @ May 22 2004, 11:37 PM)
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Old 05-23-2004   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by dig420@May 22 2004, 11:51 PM
yeah that'll be cool until you're the egg. When they're doing it to us the anti-porn people will be saying the same thing you're saying now.

The omelette thing really isn't much of a defense.

So we're supposed to give Bush credit that there haven't been major attacks like WTC since 9/11? Fuck that. It happened on his watch, through his inattention and foreign policy incompetence. Who gets credit for all the attacks that didn't happen before his presidency? Clinton?

Do you really consider protesting the ceding of yet more of our liberty to an overintrusive government sheer rhetoric? What's high minded policy discourse to you? Making fun of the French maybe, or ridiculing all the liberals who are just too dumb to shut up and trust the government like you do?

"i am going to go cower in the corner now expecting the government to kick in my door at any second and take me a away for no reason and detain me without cause or explanation" -- if they can do it to one citizen, they can do it to any other, including you. We would have been the #1 enemy of the state if Osama hadn't hogged all the headlines.
Exactlly! a true patriot, is one that believes that the principles in wich this country are founded on, are not just easy to sweep under the rug at any convient time to do whatever they want...

We are a democrasy, where all men are created equal, and afforded the same protections.... at least that is the way they wrote in the first place....

GW is to the constitution what joseph smith was to the bible...

he is writing his own version as things go along, just to improve on itLOL
funny how it only improves for his followers though, and not all men like it was intended to be....
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Old 05-23-2004   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by dig420+May 22 2004, 10:42 PM-->
QUOTE (dig420 @ May 22 2004, 10:42 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by -Torone@May 22 2004, 04:09 PM
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Old 05-23-2004   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by JR+May 23 2004, 02:37 AM-->
QUOTE (JR @ May 23 2004, 02:37 AM)
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Old 05-23-2004   #26
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why do I always hear fiddles around oprano?
yeeeha
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Old 05-23-2004   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Torone+May 23 2004, 11:31 AM-->
QUOTE (Torone @ May 23 2004, 11:31 AM)
Quote:
Originally posted by -dig420@May 22 2004, 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by -Torone@May 22 2004, 04:09 PM
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Old 05-23-2004   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Torone+May 23 2004, 11:31 AM-->
QUOTE (Torone @ May 23 2004, 11:31 AM)
Quote:


Originally posted by -dig420@May 22 2004, 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by -Torone@May 22 2004, 04:09 PM
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Old 05-23-2004   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by dig420@May 22 2004, 11:51 PM
yeah that'll be cool until you're the egg. When they're doing it to us the anti-porn people will be saying the same thing you're saying now.

The omelette thing really isn't much of a defense.

It's not a defense to you because you are hanging on to the idea that because there "might" be exceptions which are so small they would be statistically immeasurable to make the case that EVERYTHING being done to combat terror is wrong. Moreover, i would venture guess that you did not find these "loss of rights and freedoms" when Clinton was proposing the exact same things as are in the Patriot Act after the embassy/WTC bombings.

are the odds greater of me getting hit by lightning.... dying in a car wreck.... getting cancer... or being wrongfully detained etc etc yada yada yada.....? how many times greater are your chance of getting killed in a terrorist attack than being wrongfully arrested and detained? hmmm... lets see... around 4,000 deaths in terrorist attacks on US citizens in the last 15 years and how many "victems of the patriot act"? .... so far, the chance of me being killed by terrorists is probably many thousand times greater than me being a victem of what you percieve to be some sort of Nazi-like stripping of personal freedoms.

i think i am more safe.
you feel you are more threatened.

it has nothing to do for me with political orientation or partisan politics. i think Bush is an idiot. but i also believe firmly that history proves again and again that you cannot completely protect the rights of the innocent without protecting the guilty. bad people are out there trying to do bad things. thats just a fact.

its just a question of personal comfort levels i guess.



Last edited by JR at May 23 2004, 01:05 PM
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Old 05-23-2004   #30
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Basically your argument is that we should give the govt. all the power it asks for and trust them not to abuse it.

Can't really think of any way to respond to that...
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Old 05-23-2004   #31
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Yeah its a true story Joe is saying here...

And yeah its pretty disturbing to say the least.. Its been big news here in Portland.
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