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SPRINGFIELD, Illinois (AP) -- A new rape law in Illinois attempts to clarify the issue of consent by emphasizing that people can change their mind while having sex.
Under the law, if someone says "no" at any time the other person must stop or it becomes rape. The National Crime Victim Law Institute said it believed the law is the first of its kind in the country.
Who here hasn't been with a girl who has had 2nd thoughts after you start to have sex?
She says yesy, yes, yes before.. you get into.. 3 swift pumps and she has 2nd thoughts. You pull out, tell her it's OK and get on with life. Doing anything else is fucking stupid.
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Brad has a point, lot's of chicks say no while they're being seduced. Not because they don't want to fuck but because they don't want to look like a slut.
It's not a politically correct thing to say but a lot of times no does not necessarily mean no.
Originally posted by Vick@Jul 30 2003, 01:12 PM Actually if a woman says no to a man during actual intercourse his penis should go limp from embarrassment
If no is being said during, then something obviously isn't right with the situation
i have a pair of bose noise cancelling headphones. they selectively block ambient noise, "no", and any sentence beginning with "honey can you". they're great.
i mean how do deaf people handle this? all that fondling, she's saying no, and you thought she was just rubbing her tits and begging for more.
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Originally posted by JR@Jul 30 2003, 11:05 AM how can you say its not different? for someone to prove there was rape, they have to prove that they were raped. there is forensic evidence, the woman is examined, there is other evidence, there is testimony and witnesses etc.
we are not talking about that at all right now. we are talking about two people fucking and someone claiming after the fact that they said "no" at some point during intercourse - if all other evidence exists to show there was non consensual sex, then its rape no matter what right? then why the new law?
but they are not saying that. the law as i understand it simply requires someon to "say" they did not consent WHILE in the middle of consensual sex. thats hardly the same as being ambushed in the park at 1:00 am and ending up in the hospital for three weeks.
this law is redefining what rape is. why is that necessary?
The reason I say that is because very few 'rapes' are the 1am, walking through the park type rapes....most are casual 'friends' and acquaintances who spend the evening on a date and end up in bed....
Whether she said no from the very start or once things got hot is no matter.
The 'park' type rapes are very much what you describe ie: forensics, physical proof etc....
However, in most of date rape cases (the most common form of rape), there is a huge gray area because there isn't always clear physical proof......this is more common than not....
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But just like any other, it's yet one more thing for people to abuse for their own personal bullshit.
2 people fuck consentually. They go on with their lives, party "A" doesn't call and party "B" gets stupid.. The cycle begins and before you know it party "B" is in a court of law crying about saying no the entire time just to show their "power" in the exchange.
Yeah it's sick and wrong, but this kind of thing happens all the time with varying degrees of severity.
The current rules already give an insane amount of power to women over men that gets abused daily. It's a fact that more than 70% of all date rape victims end up sleeping with the man who they claimed raped them by free will! Women get emotional for one reason or another and send you to the pokey then regret it later.
Whether she said no from the very start or once things got hot is no matter.
I think you need to be careful about how you refer to that situation. The law does not say anything about "once things get hot"... we're not talking about when you end up naked and then go.."gosh i better get going"... we're talking about a woman knowingly and purposely going upstairs at 1am, knowingly and purposefully having sex with a man, and then during the actual act of intercourse changing her mind.
Not sure how i feel about this, I dont know that it should be called "rape" because rape indicates forced non-concensual sex while the above situation was never forced or non-consensual.
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Whether she said no from the very start or once things got hot is no matter.
I think you need to be careful about how you refer to that situation. The law does not say anything about "once things get hot"... we're not talking about when you end up naked and then go.."gosh i better get going"... we're talking about a woman knowingly and purposely going upstairs at 1am, knowingly and purposefully having sex with a man, and then during the actual act of intercourse changing her mind.
Not sure how i feel about this, I dont know that it should be called "rape" because rape indicates forced non-concensual sex while the above situation was never forced or non-consensual.
If she agrees at first, and then backs down, that is her perogative.
I have a hard time swallowing the idea that once she agrees it is carved in stone and that she is bound to complete the activity...even if it turns sour for her.
I don't believe the current laws state that once she agrees, she must follow through with it. I also don't believe there is any set time limit on how long she has to pull out of the arrangement.
Like Mike says.....no is no.....no matter when it is said.
This new proposal only clarifies that as soon as 'no' is said, the activity is forfeit.
There have been, and always will be women who use the system for revenge or what have you. I hate these women because it makes it so much harder for the legitimate cases to be won. These women are also the ones that create indecisiveness in legitimate rape victims who are afraid to prosecute for fear of being labelled a liar.
Quote:
I dont know that it should be called "rape" because rape indicates forced non-concensual sex while the above situation was never forced or non-consensual.
It became forced and non-consensual the minute she changed her mind and voiced her desire.
So, a guy and some hot chick start getting it on...the are butt ass naked and heavy into the petting. She stops and says no. He continues and finishes the job anyway despite her insistance to stop.
If you wouldn't call it rape.....what would you call it then?
Last edited by gigi at Jul 30 2003, 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by Pornwolf@Jul 30 2003, 04:45 PM The current rules already give an insane amount of power to women over men that gets abused daily. It's a fact that more than 70% of all date rape victims end up sleeping with the man who they claimed raped them by free will! Women get emotional for one reason or another and send you to the pokey then regret it later.
have you got somewhere that backs up that 70% number or are you just an angry man who doesn't like the fact that women have rights at all?
this particular situation is a controversial gray area - so what would suggest should be done instead? the woman should just go home and smack herself on the wrist for being too trusting!?
Quote:
I think you need to be careful about how you refer to that situation. The law does not say anything about "once things get hot"... we're not talking about when you end up naked and then go.."gosh i better get going"... we're talking about a woman knowingly and purposely going upstairs at 1am, knowingly and purposefully having sex with a man, and then during the actual act of intercourse changing her mind.
Hooper, there are plenty of reasons why the parties should be able to change their minds DURING AN ACT OF CONSENSUAL SEX. I agree it opens up a lot of opportunity for fraudulent claims on the women's behalf but think about yourself when you reach that point of 'damn i want to be inside this chick'. Ever had a moment of total lost control where right and wrong didn't matter?
What if a woman asks you to stop when ...
1) it hurts - woman says stop that hurts, can we move a bit. guy is too busy pounding and ignores request and she is in pain.
2) if he refuses to put on a condom, or if it comes off during sex
3) if both parties have agreed to try something new such as anal sex and it becomes painful
stupid thing about rules like this is that genuine cases where men have been total cunts can't be proved because there is a first level of consent. this law might make some guys think twice before they keep pumping.
It's impossible to win in arguments like this with women because they refuse to beileve there are other, much less moral, women who do very stupid and evil things. I have seen guys hauled off to jail for tons of stuff that women 'said' they did that they actually didn't do. I have been a witness in court for two cases like this.
One was a 'He raped me, he's an animal blah blah blah" yet I was there that night fucking the other freind and they fixed us pancakes after sex. The other case was a 'he hit me' affair. I was in the home in another room and heard the whole thing. She started saying "this is the last time you are going to get away with cheating on me, I'm gonna call the police" She then made up a story and of course even with me coming out of the back room and telling what I heard we still had to bail him out because the police Still took him away.
Those are the dangers of being a successful man. Women do what they can to get you.
So CJ, it's nothing personal but your fellow women are fucked in the head. The laws are lopsided. If I weren't around to testify both of my friends would have been serving some kind of jail term thanks to the current rules. :angry:
Originally posted by Pornwolf@Jul 30 2003, 05:17 PM It's impossible to win in arguments like this with women because they refuse to beileve there are other, much less moral, women who do very stupid and evil things. I have seen guys hauled off to jail for tons of stuff that women 'said' they did that they actually didn't do. I have been a witness in court for two cases like this.
Ermm....just to reiterate:
There have been, and always will be women who use the system for revenge or what have you. I hate these women because it makes it so much harder for the legitimate cases to be won. These women are also the ones that create indecisiveness in legitimate rape victims who are afraid to prosecute for fear of being labelled a liar.
Last edited by gigi at Jul 30 2003, 05:20 PM
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I have been told to "stop" while having sex with a girl before. (Ego buster for sure!!!)
It seems she had a boyfriend and got second thoughts after she got hers. (True)
I stopped what I was doing in mid plunge and got the hell up. (Didn't get mine)
I couldn't even think to continue the sex and all I could do was tell her it was OK. (She felt bad about leaving me high and not-dry)
That said the law should include precise language to be used by the girl if she changes her mind in mid stroke.
I mean if a girl says "get off you fucking piece of shit" it could be taken the wrong way, with a Dominatrix for instance!!!
Originally posted by Pornwolf@Jul 30 2003, 09:17 PM So CJ, it's nothing personal but your fellow women are fucked in the head. The laws are lopsided. If I weren't around to testify both of my friends would have been serving some kind of jail term thanks to the current rules. :angry:
Umm....there are a lot more men that are "fucked in the head" that RAPE women then there are women who file false rape reports. h34r:
And many of the real rapes also go unreported.
I know the guys probably won't read this BUT, if you want to read a harrowing true story about rape and what a female has to go through in order to complete a prosecution, read Lucky by Alice Sebold.
Originally posted by Peaches@Jul 30 2003, 05:26 PM Umm....there are a lot more men that are "fucked in the head" that RAPE women then there are women who file false rape reports. h34r:
And many of the real rapes also go unreported.
I agree... for a certain income level. The reason we are discussing this is Kobe. I will venture to say about 90% of the rape cases involving rich or famous men are false.
Originally posted by Pornwolf@Jul 30 2003, 09:33 PM I agree... for a certain income level. The reason we are discussing this is Kobe. I will venture to say about 90% of the rape cases involving rich or famous men are false.
What would you say?
I honestly don't know. That would be an interesting statistic to look up!
Originally posted by Pornwolf@Jul 30 2003, 08:17 PM It's impossible to win in arguments like this with women because they refuse to beileve there are other, much less moral, women who do very stupid and evil things. I have seen guys hauled off to jail for tons of stuff that women 'said' they did that they actually didn't do. I have been a witness in court for two cases like this.
One was a 'He raped me, he's an animal blah blah blah" yet I was there that night fucking the other freind and they fixed us pancakes after sex. The other case was a 'he hit me' affair. I was in the home in another room and heard the whole thing. She started saying "this is the last time you are going to get away with cheating on me, I'm gonna call the police" She then made up a story and of course even with me coming out of the back room and telling what I heard we still had to bail him out because the police Still took him away.
Those are the dangers of being a successful man. Women do what they can to get you.
So CJ, it's nothing personal but your fellow women are fucked in the head. The laws are lopsided. If I weren't around to testify both of my friends would have been serving some kind of jail term thanks to the current rules. :angry:
Quote:
Those are the dangers of being a successful man. Women do what they can to get you.
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA
sob sob
poor successful men ;-( :-(
they have to deal with so much! big bad women always trying to ruin their lives. *rolling eyes* PUH-LEASE!!!!
Pornwolf, have you ever considered that you & your friends are chosing the wrong kind of women?
And did you know that 'suck it bitch' isn't actually foreplay?
You can take a black and white stand on this purely because you have been in a situation twice where this has happened.
What's the bet that the situations where women don't report a geniune rape outweigh 'girl cried wolf' cases by 100 to 1? The amount of women i've spoken to through my site who have been sexually assaulted, molestered or raped and never even considered reporting it is scary as hell.
Stories like yours are what make it impossible for women who have truly been through a traumatic experience to seek justice - or even piece of mind. The moment a woman says she was raped or sexually assaulted the reaction from people is 'faker' - thanks to stupid little attention seeking bitches who want to get revenge over a broken heart or whatever.
So go ahead and tell me more about my species and what I refuse to believe about our faults ... then we can start on what's wrong with men
Touche. I think any woman that is raped should be mad enough to try to murder the guy. Don't tell me it's not possible because when you all get mad ANYTHING is possible.
What is stopping your surfers from doing that at least?
Every two minutes, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted.
Surely you will agree that the rich man, lying bitch cases represent a VERY minor percentage of these assaults?
In 2001, there were 249,000 victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault. [2000 National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS)]
Of these 249,000, 102,000 were victims of sexual assault, 63,000 were victims of attempted rape, and 84,000 were victims of completed rape. [2000 NCVS.]
Because of the methodology of the National Crime Victimization Survey, these figures do not include victims 12 or younger. While there are no reliable annual surveys of sexual assaults on children, the Justice Department has estimated that one of six victims are under age 12. [Child Rape Victims, 1992]
Approximately 66% of rape victims know their assailant. [2000 NCVS.]
Approximately 48% of victims are raped by a friend or acquaintance; 30% by a stranger; 16% by an intimate; 2% by another relative; and in 4% of cases the relationship is unknown. [2000 NCVS.]
About four out of ten sexual assaults take place at the victim’s own home. Two in ten take place in the home of a friend, neighbor or relative. One in ten take place outside, away from home. And about one in 12 take place in a parking garage. [Statistics from: Sex Offenses and Offenders. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, February 1997]
61% of rapes/sexual assaults are not reported to the police. Those rapists, of course, never serve a day in prison. [1999 NCVS]
If the rape is reported to police, there is a 50.8% chance that an arrest will be made.
If an arrest is made, there is an 80% chance of prosecution.
If there is a prosecution, there is a 58% chance of a felony conviction.
If there is a felony conviction, there is a 69% chance the convict will spend time in jail.
So, even in the 39% of attacks that are reported to police, there is only a 16.3% chance the rapist will end up in prison.
Factoring in unreported rapes, about 6% of rapists—1 out of 16— will ever spend a day in jail. 15 out of 16 will walk free.
Yes, I agree its possible for a woman who is raped to get angry and kill or hurt her attacker.
What's to stop my surfers from doing that?
nothing probably - except that law thing we have to abide by probably makes it happen less often than it could
but what does that have to do with the price of eggs in china on a hot day in october?
Originally posted by Pornwolf@Jul 30 2003, 05:50 PM Touche. I think any woman that is raped should be mad enough to try to murder the guy. Don't tell me it's not possible because when you all get mad ANYTHING is possible.
What is stopping your surfers from doing that at least?
Hmm, let's see:
Get life in prison for killing my attacker....
or....
Attempt to heal myself and get on with life....
Hmmm.....hard decision....
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Absolutely nothing. Maiming a man after a rape is a crime that you most certainly will not serve prison time for.
Look ladies, I am not arguing for the many rape cases that are comitted by the average joe. Joe needs pussy, he has a hard time getting pussy and will do anything for it. How can I argue for him? I am only arguing for the rape cases charged against men who most women actually want to rape themselves. There is a class of women out there that can really be considered predators. They destroy the lives of men and even if they aren't successful they aren't reprimanded in any way.
Originally posted by Pornwolf@Jul 30 2003, 06:07 PM Absolutely nothing. Maiming a man after a rape is a crime that you most certainly will not serve prison time for.
Whew! Thanks for clarifying that. For a minute there I thought there was some law against murdering people.....especially during the act of vigilante justice!
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Experience. Seeing these cases firsthand. Knowing a lot of the women beforehand. If you haven't been to the Superbowls, the prizefights or even with other basic rich people in your podunk area that have lots of women... please reserve your comments.
Originally posted by Pornwolf@Jul 30 2003, 10:32 PM Experience. Seeing these cases firsthand. Knowing a lot of the women beforehand. If you haven't been to the Superbowls, the prizefights or even with other basic rich people in your podunk area that have lots of women... please reserve your comments.
The neighborhood I moved from 2 years ago was littered with sports stars (basketball, wrestling, baseball, football, etc.), coaches, nationally very well knowns politicians, and "rich" folks that had a lot more money than all the others I just mentioned.
In the 7 years I lived there, and the 20 years my parents have lived there, not a single one has been "accused" of sexual assault.
Maybe it's time to change the crowd you hang out with, or at least they should pick a different type of woman to have "consensual" sex with.
Originally posted by Pornwolf@Jul 30 2003, 09:19 PM I hope all you guys standing by reading this thread are enjoying yourselves. Pussies.
One must tread lightly when speaking on the subject of rape with those who have been raped. Me thinks!!!
I like most men will never know (Hopefully) how it feels to be raped. (Voodooman is an exception of course!!!) Gotcha cuz
I as a man can do only a few things:
1) NOT RAPE ANYONE.
2) Make sure those around me are safe from rape to the best of my ability.
3) If someone close to me gets raped, I can kill or mame the MFer who did it. (This carries penalties of course)
The only other thing I'm sayin' is:
OK, you get the girl to sign the contract stating she is of willing mind and body to partake in some carnal knowledge.
The legal document acknowledges she has not been impared by any intoxicants of any kind.
You have two witnesses sign the legal document prior to startin' the fuckin' and suckin'.
You both fuck like rabits all night to mutual delight.
Later for whatever reason.............................
In the court room afterwards the signed and witnessed legal document described above is negated by the fact that the girl says she said "NO" in the middle of the sexual act.
If you wouldn't call it rape.....what would you call it then
I'm not going to argue this. it's something too emotional for people to consider it rationally.
my only point was that if you create an agreement to perform act x with somebody, you cant then turn around and scream that cancelling act x half way through the job is the same as the guy forcing act x on you in the beginning..
again, not saying it's ok to continue after a "no", just saying that rape is used to define a sex act that is forced from the beginning.
to me this is more akin to a breech of contract... sexual assault maybe... rape? no.
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[quote]Originally posted by Peaches@Jul 30 2003, 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pornwolf,Jul 30 2003, 10:32 PM
Maybe it's time to change the crowd you hang out with, or at least they should pick a different type of woman to have "consensual" sex with.
Look Peaches, what you see and what i see are two different things. You see trees, grass and kids and I see nightclubs, awards shows and groupies. 2 different worlds even from your old neighborhood. Am I concerned about who I hang out with, no not at all. The female predators come with the package.
Pick a different type of woman? hahahaha! The wife in most cases is nothing like the women that are served up on a platter on a daily basis. I don't think many guys would turn down these women. We are talking about the hottest of the hot. You can only be so careful.
And before you say what I know is on your mind... do I think the cheating is right? No, but it happens, often. It's just something that comes with the territory.
07-30-2003
h34r: 
BUT, if you want to read a harrowing true story about rape and what a female has to go through in order to complete a prosecution, read Lucky by Alice Sebold.
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