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Old 07-25-2003   #1
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GloBill.com ("GloBill") has ceased processing. The reasons will be explained in a settlement and explanatory package that will be sent to GloBill webmasters that follow the directions set forth below. All webmasters are strongly encouraged to participate in the process.

*** Please do NOT attempt to cash any checks that you currently hold for GloBill payouts because these checks will be returned NSF ***

*** ZMA Industries, Inc. will issue new checks as part of its settlement process.***

In what we believe is an unfortunate example of Visa abusing its power against the adult industry in a stunningly arbitrary and patently unfair manner, we were advised that our bank was instructed to terminate our processing in order to avoid threatened fees in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. ZMA Industries, Inc. is already in the process of preparing legal action in response to the recent developments and further information regarding the precise nature and grounds of the imminent litigation will be forthcoming in the future.

GloBill is contracted with a technical operations company that will continue to maintain certain user related systems. Namely, the correct commands will still be sent to your server to expire users when their membership ends. Users will be able to log in without any problems. You also will be able to manually add new users to your password file, obtain users lists, etc.

All GloBill clients who are owed funds will be responded to in writing by our corporate office in St. Kitts. In order to receive our settlement documentation and other pertinent information, you must send us a letter detailing your payee name, contact information and all site IDs that you held under GloBill by Monday, September 15, 2003. Please ensure your letter includes the following information at the TOP of your letter:

Your full name, the full name of your company, complete mailing address, telephone number with area codes and/or country codes and email address;
Your main payee name under GloBill; and
Your GloBill Site IDs.
Letters should be mailed directly to our office in St. Kitts by Monday, September 15, 2003 to be factored into the settlement process. You may also send the letter to our mail-forwarding address in the United States on or before the same date, as all mail sent to this address will be forwarded to our St. Kitts' headquarters.

Given the volume of mail we anticipate receiving, please allow 6-8 weeks for ZMA Industries, Inc. to respond to your correspondence. Please do not phone, fax or email because these methods of contact have now been automated. ZMA Industries, Inc. will only respond to written communications that contain the information set forth above.

In order to receive your settlement package, please send your inquiry letter at your immediate convenience and no later than Monday, September 15, 2003 to:

GloBill.com / Settlement
c/o ZMA Industries, Inc.
Amory Building Victoria Road
P.O. Box 1058
Basseterre, St. Kitts

West Indies
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Old 07-25-2003   #2
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Serge, and this answers your question once again
Another one bites the dust!
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Old 07-25-2003   #3
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Sucks



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Old 07-25-2003   #4
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In a word...................FUCK!!!
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Old 07-25-2003   #5
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Originally posted by $tanDaMan@Jul 25 2003, 11:12 AM
Serge, and this answers your question once again
Another one bites the dust!
yeap....
;-)))
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Old 07-25-2003   #6
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Sad day - another processor forced out of business...
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Old 07-25-2003   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 25 2003, 11:23 AM
Sad day - another processor forced out of business...
not really...

did they advertise on Oprano?

no

fuck 'em....you won't see a tear from me....
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Old 07-25-2003   #8
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Anyone know who there big clients were?
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Old 07-25-2003   #9
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They were one of the companies who tried to get around visa's ipsp ruling by moving offshore, not charging the $750 fee etc..etc.

I dont think this really comes as a suprise to many people. AC Pay is next.

*note* i 'd be willing to bet a buck that they were settling transactions for clients outside of their banks country.



Last edited by Hooper at Jul 25 2003, 11:44 AM
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Old 07-25-2003   #10
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Yeah, but it remind us of the fragility of processors... GlobalBill is probably not the last to fall...
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Old 07-25-2003   #11
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I would disagree rolo. Globill was not a processor. They were factoring.
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Old 07-25-2003   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 25 2003, 11:43 AM
Yeah, but it remind us of the fragility of processors... GlobalBill is probably not the last to fall...
Epoch won't fail and for the rest....
fuck 'em all!

Epoch has BRAINS,
they dug themselves out of 12 mils hole and now the LEADERS of this business...

the rest....
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Old 07-25-2003   #13
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I wouldnt be suprised to see pswbilling go though. they may be an ipsp who follows the rules, but given some of the recent correspondence we've had with them... their officers and managers werent even aware of many of the new visa regulations til i educated them.
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Old 07-25-2003   #14
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ok. i must bow and give credit where credit is due.

gonzo. you da man. even for a colored fella.

http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?a...442d7115d37d6ad

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Old 07-25-2003   #15
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Originally posted by Hooper@Jul 25 2003, 08:58 AM
ok. i must bow and give credit where credit is due.

gonzo. you da man. even for a colored fella.

http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?a...442d7115d37d6ad
Yeah and based on the correspondance Ive had with ACPay they look to be the next one.

I expected more from Adult Check but I got a feeling that I wasted my time...

WRP just made an offer...


You can drop your amatuer site into their network and they will process you for a mere 40%.
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Old 07-25-2003   #16
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Didn´t ACPay pay the VISA fee?



Last edited by Rolo at Jul 25 2003, 09:45 AM
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Old 07-25-2003   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by gonzo@Jul 25 2003, 01:37 PM
WRP just made an offer...


You can drop your amatuer site into their network and they will process you for a mere 40%.
Is that Carol and Danny's company?
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Old 07-25-2003   #18
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Originally posted by Peaches+Jul 25 2003, 09:45 AM-->
QUOTE (Peaches @ Jul 25 2003, 09:45 AM)
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Old 07-25-2003   #19
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Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 25 2003, 08:43 AM
Yeah, but it remind us of the fragility of processors... GlobalBill is probably not the last to fall...
Actually it should remind us that when Visa makes rules, attempting to subvert them by using smoke and mirrors just pisses Visa off and makes them decide to hunt you down like a dog and kill you.

Globill knew what kind of risk they were taking and their clients that can read should have realized it as well, as much as it was debated on every message board in adult last year.

I have no sympathy for anyone processing with them, or for them.
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Old 07-25-2003   #20
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I would be remiss if I didn't bring up the ACH option that's available and would be good to put as a front option instead of a fall back option...weaning the surfers off CC's might not be such a bad thing.
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Old 07-25-2003   #21
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and another and another and another bites the dust


actually those stupid enough not to have listened to Kimmy on this issue deserve what they got !





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Old 07-25-2003   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 25 2003, 11:30 AM
Anyone know who there big clients were?
anyone know who any of their clients were ?
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Old 07-25-2003   #23
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Originally posted by slavdogg@Jul 25 2003, 11:37 AM
and another and another and another bites the dust


actually those stupid enough not to have listened to Kimmy on this issue deserve what they got !
I wish I could take the credit but there were a ton of people, including Ron Cadwell and Chris Mallick, trying to warn the naysayers. Everyone claimed they were doing it for their own businesses -- which of course, are still processing as normal today
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Old 07-25-2003   #24
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The number of adult processors left is scary.
All USA processors are getting fined. Paycom has to sue mastercard just to service. iBill got $5 million fine. Jettis got fined.
Maybe within a year there is not going to be a 3rd party processor in business.
Might be is time for ALL adult webmasters to get their own merchant accounts. That seems to be what visa and mastercard wants.
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Old 07-25-2003   #25
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I know we do not get a lot of attention, but I will say it again for the cheap seats....

It is time that paysites start diversifying their checks away from ANY 3rd party credit card risk.

ACH Debit charges only on cleared checks and provides FREE real-time account verification for all our adult clients.

better pricing, better service, more features.... what's the hard part??
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Old 07-25-2003   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by wig@Jul 25 2003, 01:30 PM
what's the hard part??
Its those $35-40 per trial signup... its hard to earn $35-40 per trial check signup... as long as most programs are willing to take the risk with credit card trials and high per signup payout, then we are a industry locked in the "no win" credit card situation.

Good news are that evolution works for us, if we adapt to the changes.... however if we continue with these old models, then we will be extinct.
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Old 07-25-2003   #27
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Rolo,

I didn't say dump credit cards. I said diversify your check business away from 3rd party credit card risk.

some of the biggest programs out there make a concerted effort to get more check signups. some of our clients, like CE, Python, Silver Cash, etc. came to us years ago and asked, "how can we get more check sign-ups".

Why do you think that is?
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Old 07-25-2003   #28
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I was not saying that online checks were bad - I´m saying that we are not using these enough, along with alot of other payment options, which would bring peace of mind to alot of sponsors and webmasters. We (sponsors and webmasters) are looking at those holy per signup rates, and thinking "we must not change, because it will hurt".... This is how some of us will go extinct.

If we lower the payout, then we would be able to push many different payment options more aggressive.

Checks are slower at paying those $35 per signup, than credit cards, thats why we still have VISA/MC as option#1. If the payout was lower for checks, and webmasters would accept it, then I´m sure checks would be option #1 at alot of programs.

We have been working on a new setup, which have lots of other payment options beside VISA/MC. However we know that not all of them will work in a "$35 per free trial" program, because they do not have free trials, or might not recurre etc. This leaves us with changing our membership pricing and/or webmaster payout, if we want this to work.
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Old 07-25-2003   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 25 2003, 07:11 PM
I was not saying that online checks were bad - I´m saying that we are not using these enough, along with alot of other payment options, which would bring peace of mind to alot of sponsors and webmasters. We (sponsors and webmasters) are looking at those holy per signup rates, and thinking "we must not change, because it will hurt".... This is how some of us will go extinct.
As of today, I daresay that the smart webmasters are thinking "I'd rather get paid a little, than nothing at all."

Wig's sat me down many times and extolled the virtues of ACH through ACH (forgot the link last time) and in all honesty, I never understood why pay sites didn't put them as #1 and today's events make that thought even stronger.
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Old 07-25-2003   #30
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I think most people misunderstand checks, which is why they are not used to their full potential.

Checks will never replace credit cards because:

1) credit cards are credit and checks are cash right out of your account.
2) checks are limited to the US
3) it is easier to enter a credit card # than an ABA and account number
4) there is no 100% real-time account verification with checks and many checks will be returned

However, this is where ppl miss the virtues of checks:

1) they are cheaper to process than cards
2) there are no fees for bounced checks or charge-backs
3) there is currently no ratios to maintain
4) checks convert better and retention is better (all things considered)
5) 99% of checks sign-ups are from individuals who do not have a credit card
6) charge-backs are restricted to 60 days from the time a bank statement is posted to the consumer

Returned checks are a problem, but with ACH Debit we do two things that no other processor does:

1) We only charge on checks that clear, so we have every incentive to reduce returns (our interests are in line with our merchants)
2) We provide FREE real-time account verification where available.

All things considered, I still beg the question.... what is the hard part about seeing the benefits of processing checks thru ACH Debit??

But, you know the old adage... you can led a horse to water, but...


PS - Peaches, thanks for the support as always!!!
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Old 07-25-2003   #31
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Wig, that's why me and Danny are going to be talking to you in FL.
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Old 07-26-2003   #32
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Checks rock, I make twice as much per check sign-up as per card sign-up and we will be making some adjustments to our sign-up pages shortly that will strongly encourage people to use checks.

And if I can give anyone some REALLY good advice... If you process your checks with the same company as you process your credit cards then you are an IDIOT. No matter who your IPSP is today there is probably a 50% chance they will be out of business within a year, regardless of what chat board they sponsor. Make sure you still have your check recurrings safely with a company who does not process credit cards.
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Old 07-26-2003   #33
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wig, you owe me for that shill ;-)
want to pay online with a check ;-))
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Old 07-26-2003   #34
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Morning, folks.

Ulfie, looking forward to seeing you and Danny, and appreciate the opportunity to serve you guys!

Timon, thanks man! I could not have said it better.

If you ever refer anyone I'll set you up as an affiliate and pay you an ongoing commission.
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Old 07-26-2003   #35
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So much for all of the silly bastards who thought they were going to dodge the $750 registration fee.

I said it then, I'll say it now. If you cant afford a $750 registration fee, you've got no fucking business running a pay site.

I had to pay $750 each to multiple processors. But at least my recurring is intact.

Looks like it may be time for me to finally get around to adding ACHDebit as I've been intending for over a year as well. My hunch is if one of the IPSPs bites the dust with Visa, they're not going to stay in business just to continue to process our checks. And ACHDebit is clearly just flat out much better at handling check processing anyway.
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Old 07-26-2003   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by puchih@Jul 25 2003, 01:01 PM
The number of adult processors left is scary.
All USA processors are getting fined. Paycom has to sue mastercard just to service. iBill got $5 million fine. Jettis got fined.
Maybe within a year there is not going to be a 3rd party processor in business.
Might be is time for ALL adult webmasters to get their own merchant accounts. That seems to be what visa and mastercard wants.
ALL of them are getting fined? Paycom has to sue Mastercard to survive?

Wrong on both counts.

As is your statement regarding Visa not wanting IPSPs, sorry.

Please make sure your information is correct if you are going to post it
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Old 07-26-2003   #37
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Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Jul 26 2003, 12:32 PM
So much for all of the silly bastards who thought they were going to dodge the $750 registration fee.

I said it then, I'll say it now. If you cant afford a $750 registration fee, you've got no fucking business running a pay site.

I had to pay $750 each to multiple processors. But at least my recurring is intact.

Looks like it may be time for me to finally get around to adding ACHDebit as I've been intending for over a year as well. My hunch is if one of the IPSPs bites the dust with Visa, they're not going to stay in business just to continue to process our checks. And ACHDebit is clearly just flat out much better at handling check processing anyway.
HellPuppy,

Hit me up when you are ready! danp AT achdebit
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Old 07-26-2003   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by *KK*@Jul 26 2003, 01:20 PM
As is your statement regarding Visa not wanting IPSPs, sorry.
KimmyKim I think you are correct regarding VISA still wanting to work with IPSPs (the ones who have their business in order), but what about MC... MC latest rules are really looking like they want the IPSPs to drop them?

The "shopping cart" feature, disclosure rules, and the credits/chargeback rules must be direct attacks on the whole IPSPs model?



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Old 07-26-2003   #39
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« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Originally posted by Rolo+Jul 26 2003, 02:57 PM-->
QUOTE (Rolo @ Jul 26 2003, 02:57 PM)
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Old 07-27-2003   #40
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wig I have just signed up with you

Not everyone using Globill couldn't afford the $750. I am in Australia and was using CCbill and when the new rules came out CCbill sent me an email saying they couldn't proccess for me.
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Old 07-27-2003   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by puchih@Jul 25 2003, 04:01 PM
The number of adult processors left is scary.
All USA processors are getting fined. Paycom has to sue mastercard just to service. iBill got $5 million fine. Jettis got fined.
Maybe within a year there is not going to be a 3rd party processor in business.
Might be is time for ALL adult webmasters to get their own merchant accounts. That seems to be what visa and mastercard wants.
I don't think so. I mean the whole 750.00 registering domains, etc. was part of their control. Webmasters would be forced to store credit card information opening even more doors for abuse.

This landscape is too familiar. It’s a shake down, one after another and as many have already stated here, the strong will survive and business will be done like business. It’s been fucking crazy the way things have been handled. I’m all for free enterprise and small business but there should be more responsibilities and ethics in business. If not, they all burn out, fuck each other and die.

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Old 07-28-2003   #42
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Originally posted by wig@Jul 26 2003, 11:09 PM
Morning, folks.

Ulfie, looking forward to seeing you and Danny, and appreciate the opportunity to serve you guys!

Timon, thanks man! I could not have said it better.

If you ever refer anyone I'll set you up as an affiliate and pay you an ongoing commission.
Timon's comment about idiot's made me click if you want to count that as a referal... but don't pay him a commission... I'm sure he won't mind if you just reduce my charges instead :P

email is otw
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Old 07-28-2003   #43
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Hey Opti, have not got your email yet, but I'll get you taken care of!

Thanks for taking the leap.
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Old 07-29-2003   #44
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This is a difficult situation for those of us that don't run our business from the US.

We are basically being told that unless we incorporate in Navada and pay the IRS then Visa will chase us to the end of the earth.

I can understand them wanting their banks to have decent reporting and follow best practices. However if their tactic is simple to shutdown any banks doing high-risk e-commerce and only allow US banks into this market.... We'll that's just not right.

At this stage non-US webmasters have 2 options. Either we get a merchant account and gateway with a bank that may or may not be shutdown in a couple of weeks or we can incorporate in the US and pay US taxes.

I can't understand the various Visa zones sitting by and letting the US steal all their commerce.

As it stands now it appears that the only people allowed to use 3rd party billers are Americans. This was a global way of doing business... Why are Americans the only people that can be trusted to do business in this way?

Why should I have to be in the US to be in the online business.

If Visa US is going to make the game US only then why don't Visa EU get their act together and let people know exactly what it is they have to do to make Visa happy.

Why do we all have so many unanswered questions.... Why are they being so silent and so aggressive.... Shit if they only told me what they wanted I'd go outta my way to make sure they are happy.

-Ben
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