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Old 07-25-2003   #1
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Looks like they are sending in the Bulldog....... This ought to be fun to watch. Going after Bush is one thing... But Cheney will eat them alive.....



http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/206/nati..._in_Iraq+.shtml

Cheney says reports justified case for war in Iraq


By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff, 7/25/2003

ASHINGTON -- Vice President Dick Cheney, breaking his silence about the controversy surrounding the Bush administration's use of intelligence to justify the Iraq war, yesterday repeatedly cited an October 2002 report that warned Saddam Hussein was seeking to develop nuclear weapons.

But Cheney did not say whether he had read the section of the report that recorded the State Department's dissent, which said it was ''highly dubious'' that Iraq had sought uranium from Africa to produce nuclear weapons. Previously, Cheney's staff has said the vice president cleared President Bush's State of the Union speech in January, when Bush referred to Iraq seeking uranium from Africa.
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Old 07-25-2003   #2
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The whole thing about uranium from Niger is ridiculous and shows how desperate and dishonest the Dems are...If you look at the entire sentence, what Bush said is true. The UK still stands behind it on the basis of other intel. Further, the vote to go to war was in October, BEFORE the State of the Union Speech in January.

I honestly can't see how anyone would ever vote Democratic again.

BTW, that BS about needing 2 parties is just that. There will always be at least 2 parties.
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Old 07-25-2003   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Torone@Jul 25 2003, 08:07 AM
I honestly can't see how anyone would ever vote Democratic again.

BTW, that BS about needing 2 parties is just that. There will always be at least 2 parties.
The Republicans are every bit as dirty as the Democrats.

Are you contradicting yourself or just saying that if the Democrats didn't exist another party would take their place anyway? I'm pretty sure that party would look a lot like the Democratic party anyway. Party platforms evolve to capture more votes.

Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin.



Last edited by Colin at Jul 25 2003, 08:21 AM
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Old 07-25-2003   #4
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If the issue was as simple as 16 words in one speech, this whole thing would have blown over by now. And Cheney will make some biting comments, to be sure ... but his appeal is mostly to the party faithful and the bobble-heads. I don't think of Cheney as a "big gun" - more like an annoying little yap dog.

Now, personally, it doesn't suprise me that Torone is critical of a multiparty system.
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Old 07-25-2003   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jul 25 2003, 07:35 AM
If the issue was as simple as 16 words in one speech, this whole thing would have blown over by now. And Cheney will make some biting comments, to be sure ... but his appeal is mostly to the party faithful and the bobble-heads. I don't think of Cheney as a "big gun" - more like an annoying little yap dog.

Now, personally, it doesn't suprise me that Torone is critical of a multiparty system.
Who said I was against a multi-party system? You friggin' Dems are so damned arrogant, you think that there are only 2 parties-the one that's in power and the one you think should be. I call that pretty damned arrogant. Ever hear of the Libertarian Party?

As for blowing over, you mean like the incident captured in CA the other day? The one not mentioned on this board because (most likely) no one but Libs knew about it? That one, if widely publicized, would mean the end of the Dems. Fact is, this '16 words' thing and that one are, together, a prime example of the Liberal media in action.
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Old 07-25-2003   #6
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I have no idea what the hell you are talking about when you refer to "the incident captured in California the other day." However, I am not in the paranoic/facist information loop, so I don't learn all the obscure facts that you do - nor to I have the proper mindset, or a pretuned AM radio station to enable me to understand "what they really mean."

I believe that you and yours have been predicting "the end of the dems" as long as you've been calling anyone to the left of Himmler a communist, so that is a completely meaningless statement.

I am aware of the Libertarian party. They are mildly amusing. However, they are no more relevant to real discussions of politics than the Greens - and after the last election, probably less.

Lastly, with reference to arrogance - you and yours aren't capable of arguing that those who hold views opposing yours are merely wrong. You have to go to great lengths to fantasize about vast conspiracies and diabolical intent. You and yours believe, Acacia style, that you have a patent on patriotism, and that anyone who doesn't buy your view is either a fool or a traitor.

So you talking to me about the arrogance of liberals is a little like being lectured on tolerance by Goering.
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Old 07-26-2003   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Torone@Jul 25 2003, 08:47 AM
I call that pretty damned arrogant. Ever hear of the Libertarian Party?
It's not arrogant, it's reality! I'd LOVE to vote libertarian but that would be a completely wasted vote. The fact of the matter is that there is not a person alive today to remember a non-Republican or non-Democratic president.
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Old 07-26-2003   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Colin+Jul 26 2003, 03:56 AM-->
QUOTE (Colin @ Jul 26 2003, 03:56 AM)
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Old 07-26-2003   #9
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Pd,
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/new...ics/6356325.htm
and
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSpr...provisional.htm
READ!



Last edited by Torone at Jul 26 2003, 05:48 AM
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Old 07-26-2003   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Torone@Jul 26 2003, 06:35 AM
In fact, the current crop of Dem pols are about to destroy their party.
I don't believe that one bit. The Democratic party is alive and well.
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Old 07-26-2003   #11
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Quote:


Originally posted by Colin+Jul 26 2003, 06:52 AM-->
QUOTE (Colin @ Jul 26 2003, 06:52 AM)
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Old 07-26-2003   #12
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Wrong! The Dems aren't paying attention to their constituents...they're manipulating them. That's why polls are rigged. They can't give one reason to vote FOR THEM, only reasons NOT to vote for their opponents. That's a sign of a party that feels it has nothing viable to offer.
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Old 07-26-2003   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Torone@Jul 26 2003, 07:23 AM
Wrong! The Dems aren't paying attention to their constituents...they're manipulating them. That's why polls are rigged. They can't give one reason to vote FOR THEM, only reasons NOT to vote for their opponents. That's a sign of a party that feels it has nothing viable to offer.
Uh huh. The Democrats say the same thing about the Republicans. Why do you think your accusations are right and theirs are wrong? Why do people so often think THEY are manipulated but I am not? People in Europe think many Americans are manipulated and "brainwashed". They only think this because they do not see how any reasonable person could disagree with them. This says something about themselves than anything else.

Most political debates center around the idea of what you want the world to be like. There is no truth in that. There is no truth to the answers for whether there should be a death penalty or legal abortion or gambling. There is only opinion as to what kind of world one wants to live in.

Of course the Democrats feel they have something viable to offer. Why do you think just because you disagree with what they offer that they don't believe they do. They won the popular vote just three years ago. A lot of people agree with them.

There is definitely a democratic party platform. Stating reasons as to why not to vote for the other guy is the best political strategy when you are behind in the polls. Can you fault anyone for using the best strategy?

Many conservatives were predicting the end of the Democratic Party in the early 1990s after 12 straight years of Republican rule in the White House. Then Clinton came.
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Old 07-26-2003   #14
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Hmmm ... some twit of a State Representative in California shoves her foot down her throat, and that's going to destroy the Democratic party? Puuu-leaze!

And the relevance of the link to "the Russian Revolution in 500 words" escapes me completely. Well, that's not true - I do see where you are trying to go. The problem is that it was a false comparisson during the FIRST FUCKING TERM of Franklin D. Roosevelt, and has only gotten more laughable with age.
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Old 07-26-2003   #15
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Pd,
It is easy to see why you are a democrat...

Here's what happened:
The Socialists were too weak to overthrow the gov't, so they allied themselves with Lenin and his Marxists. Shortly after the gov't was overthrown, Lenin and his people overthrew the Socialists, and the 'liquidations' began. Totalitarianism was in control for the next 70 years; and it will take several generations for the effects to disappear.
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Old 07-26-2003   #16
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Show me a political party that REALLY has your individual best interests in mind? It doesn't exist.

These fuckers would sell their soul to get re-elected and any principals they had went out the window when they entered the realm of politics.

The founding fathers new this and wrote about it. So what? That's where we are... somewhere in between the beginning and the end.

The question is... what are you doing about it as an individual? Arguing about Republicans vs. Democrats?? Supporting one or the other?? What a fucking waste of time!

Go fucking fishing or something. LOL
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Old 07-26-2003   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Torone@Jul 26 2003, 09:28 AM
Pd,
It is easy to see why you are a democrat...

Here's what happened:
The Socialists were too weak to overthrow the gov't, so they allied themselves with Lenin and his Marxists. Shortly after the gov't was overthrown, Lenin and his people overthrew the Socialists, and the 'liquidations' began. Totalitarianism was in control for the next 70 years; and it will take several generations for the effects to disappear.
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, so I will try to do so this time. I fully understand every point you are trying to make. I just think you are so far off base as to be irrelevant.

Although I am familiar with it, I do not consider the history of the Russian Revolution relevant to contemporary American politics. The use of that comparisson proved false when it was made during the New Deal. The use of that comparisson proved false when it was made during the Great Society. The use of that comparisson requires that you accept what the lawyers call "facts not in evidence" except in your little mind.

You point to some California State Representatives comments about creating gridlock for political gain in what appears to have been a "bull session" as evidence of the decadance and conspiratorial nature of the Democratic Party. Since I don't think you are stupid, I have to conclude you were so caught up in the ecstatic joy of finding the smoking cap gun that you didn't realize I'll dismiss that with one name - Newt Gingrich. He didn't speculate about it, he actually DID it - and on a national stage, in front of gawdneverybody.

Torone, when I was in high school there was a little old man who used to show up in front of the school on Wednesdays and pass out literature from the John Birch Society that contained an AMAZING number of the exact same points as you make. He was reasonably articulate, and somewhat fun to argue with - but he was no more relevant to reality than the Socialist Workers Party, the Students for a Democratic Society, the International Workers of the World, the Nazis, the Klan, or any other representative of the lunatic fringe. BTW ... the Maoists were kind enough to let me know that I would be one of the first people that would get shot, since I think too much. I am no more afraid of a communist takeover than I am of the conspiracy of the Masons, the Jews, the Catholics, or the muthafukin Klingons, and I think that people who obsess over any of the above have serious problems.

Yes, I know ... I've been brainwashed by the liberal media. I am really a secret agent for the vast galactic and glacial Communist conspiracy.
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Old 07-26-2003   #18
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Pd,
You are worse than that. You are one of the most dangerous people in this country today...fools who THINK that they know something.

I just posted this on another thread; but I shall repeat it here:
"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Now, I gotta go change out some sponsor links.

Later!
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