Traffic Brokers?

Calculus · 06-22-2003

Is the concept of Traffic brokers and selling traffic only applicable in the Adult world?

Adult Site Traffic · 06-22-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Calculus@Jun 22 2003, 09:11 AM
Is the concept of Traffic brokers and selling traffic only applicable in the Adult world?

On the contrary. We have a mainstream division of sorts, and we have suppliers who can provide up to 3 million per day.

Some are moving 12 million per day and over.

They can geo sort and target as well, even target age groups.

Basically, when you go to any mainstream site and get pops, you've just been brokered and sold for profit

Calculus · 06-22-2003

Thanks AST, you've explained it perfectly.

cj · 06-22-2003

lol

are you 2 buddies by any chance?

voodooman · 06-22-2003

*KK* · 06-22-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Calculus@Jun 22 2003, 09:11 AM
Is the concept of Traffic brokers and selling traffic only applicable in the Adult world?

There's this thing called advertising lol...

wargames · 06-22-2003

Calculus · 06-23-2003

Ha, not buddies but I suppose it looks like it reading the replies.

To tell you the truth I didin't really understand this concept too well but am getting a handle on it. The reason that I asked is that I'm trying to take control of certain non-porn search terms and then look to sell that traffic on. But with the advent of ppc and the like I didn't understand how they could be charging so much when a normal banner ad is so small, but I'm getting a handle on this point as well.

Check out this for an interesting scope on the whole idea of selling traffic;

Obtaining Targeted Web Site Traffic

Qualified traffic is the lifeblood of any web site today, especially for ecommerce sites that are selling goods or services online. But, many media buyers and/or owners of web sites are paying too much for traffic by relying on PPC ("pay per click") search engines like Overture or Google's Ad Words Select programs and others.

There is a new breed of web site traffic brokers emerging in the interactive marketing world that are brokering qualified traffic to the highest bidder on a CPC ("cost per click") basis. Traffic brokers bypass tried and true business processes by flipping the business proposition 180 degrees. They don't find clients and then optimize their web site for search engines; they do it the other way around, by developing and optimizing their own domains for top search engines and then reselling this traffic by redirecting it to a destination of their choosing in real time.

So, is this process illegal or unethical? It's hard to say. I don't believe these processes are more disingenuous than what's occurring with hidden "sponsorship listings" via top search engines, including Yahoo, MSN, LookSmart, Overture, etc. The latter are now starting to take up the lion's share of the first page on search results -- these results are viewed tens of millions of times per day, with many people unaware that the results are "sponsored listings."

To muddy the digital waters even more, marketing services companies are starting to offer "trusted feed" traffic to companies who want to buy qualified traffic on a CPC ("cost per click") basis. This process is just starting to take hold in the marketplace and works by a marketing services firm contacting a prospective client and offering them "trusted feed" search engine listings on a top web site like MSN or LookSmart on a CPC "cost per click" basis. They (the marketing services firm) then build web site pages for their client that are based on their in-depth knowledge of what the search engines want and then submit these pages to the search engine/directory's editors who then review the sites, give the "client" a top listing site and then share in the CPC trusted feed revenue with the marketing services firm.

It's getting pretty murky when you start to look closely at what and how traffic originates. Brokering traffic may not necessary be bad or unethical as long as the web site that is the final recipient of the traffic is offering goods and services that are identical to the referring web site. And, there is a self-policing component of these types of processes -- the traffic brokers want repeat business, so it is in their self interest to make sure the redirected traffic is being sent to a similar web site.

Also, "conversion rates" (the number of people taking a specific action versus the amount of traffic) are rapidly becoming the final determinant of building a sustaining relationship between the traffic brokering firm and the recipient web site. If the traffic coverts then the recipient typically wants to buy more, if not, they will move on to another source -- this reinforces the self-policing aspects of the relationship.

So what do you look for if you want to start buying traffic from a web site traffic broker? Price is certainly a large factor in determining what your interest should be. Expect to pay more for filtered ("automotive, insurance, telecommunications") versus unfiltered ("shopping mall type of traffic") as the former has to be carefully filtered for specific keywords or keywords sets so it can be distributed to a larger number of web sites.

Next, make sure you get a 24/7 reporting capability that enables you to analyze your traffic in real time -- this report should show the originating keyword traffic (keywords are always embedded in the search string). And look carefully at your report; proxy traffic (or cached pages) should be filtered out so that there is no more than 5-10% of the total traffic -- you can't get away from having some proxy traffic in this day in age, even AOL is using proxy servers. Finally, look closely at your report. The timelines should have some randomness in the sequences; if you see a traffic report with keyword traffic that is spaced very closely in terms of the timeline, warning bells should go off.

*KK* · 06-23-2003

Where'd you get that cut and paste? It looks like spam from someone trying to sell impressions. Not a bad gig if you can get it but damn it takes the onus off the seller and puts it on the buyer in a big way, since the seller is getting paid whether or not you get clicked at all...

Calculus · 06-23-2003

http://www.theonestopwebsiteshop.com/onlin...ted-traffic.htm

Just found it looking around on google.

I'm not so sharp though, I don't understand your argument.

Say you have a stockbroking business (which is nowhere in the search-engines) and I get my site up in the top 10 of google which basically promotes your site, then is that traffic not worth buying on a CPC basis? It's certainly targeted because they've found my site most probably under the term 'stockbroker' etc.

cj · 06-23-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Calculus@Jun 23 2003, 04:51 PM
http://www.theonestopwebsiteshop.com/onlin...ted-traffic.htm

Just found it looking around on google.

I'm not so sharp though, I don't understand your argument.

Say you have a stockbroking business (which is nowhere in the search-engines) and I get my site up in the top 10 of google which basically promotes your site, then is that traffic not worth buying on a CPC basis? It's certainly targeted because they've found my site most probably under the term 'stockbroker' etc.

first of all, try getting your site listed in the top 10 for stockbroking ... IF you can do that, someone MIGHT buy the traffic on a per click basis ...

If you don't understand what KK said, i'm not sure how you are going to achieve the above ...

Calculus · 06-24-2003

CJ

I was using 'stockbroker' as just an example. Anyway looking at what comes up on google under the search term I don't think getting top 10 in 'stockbroker' would be that much of a problem, and 'UK stockbroker' would be almost a given if you were prepared to work a little.

I'm actually starting to build a financial portal along some of these lines and due to the recent shuffle in google have already got 3 of my pages in the top 10 of google for a well known financial search term and 7 of the top 20. And I didn't do anything fancy at all, just created a simple site of about 9 pages of information and then linked into them from a couple of sites that I've got listed on dmoz together with the odd one page on another few domains.

All of you can critisize me all you want but I just feel that you're so battle hardened by the viscious competition in the adult world that you don't realise that there's almost no competition for such things as search engines in many different industries especially those located outside of the US. Of course I'm not talking about loans, casinos, flights and the like but there are many specialist industries on the web doing good business or attracting clients and these markets can easily be broken into.

cj · 06-24-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Calculus@Jun 24 2003, 03:06 AM
CJ

I was using 'stockbroker' as just an example. Anyway looking at what comes up on google under the search term I don't think getting top 10 in 'stockbroker' would be that much of a problem, and 'UK stockbroker' would be almost a given if you were prepared to work a little.

I'm actually starting to build a financial portal along some of these lines and due to the recent shuffle in google have already got 3 of my pages in the top 10 of google for a well known financial search term and 7 of the top 20. And I didn't do anything fancy at all, just created a simple site of about 9 pages of information and then linked into them from a couple of sites that I've got listed on dmoz together with the odd one page on another few domains.

All of you can critisize me all you want but I just feel that you're so battle hardened by the viscious competition in the adult world that you don't realise that there's almost no competition for such things as search engines in many different industries especially those located outside of the US. Of course I'm not talking about loans, casinos, flights and the like but there are many specialist industries on the web doing good business or attracting clients and these markets can easily be broken into.

Calculus, I wasn't critisizing you, but i'm happy to start ....

If you think the competition is more vicious in this market than in the mainstream market, you really are just an easy target ...

yes, there are many specialist industry's that have traffic going to waste in search engines ... now all you have to do is build enough sites to get enough traffic in those specialist industry's to get companies to want to buy it on a per click basis ... you have to match specialist industry keywords with sites that have either a ) an affiliate program or b ) an advertising budget

like you said EASY!

I'm not scoffing at the plan, i'm just not convinced that you know what it is going to take to achieve what you are saying is 'easy' to achieve - especially if you need to ask a group of adult webmasters if the mainstream world brokers traffic ...

Good luck with your venture

Hooper · 06-24-2003

Calculus. My only worry for you is that you are just now realizing how ppc works. We spend a significant amount on ppc engines.. it's not cheap and as with all things, the market regulates itself such that you either have to do it better than the other guy or have much deeper pockets... cause the bids for the top spots will reach the value of the customer quickly (sighs and remembers the 3 cent top spots on goto back in the day)

good luck bud... but if i were you i'd keep my eyes on the ball cause you are an easy target.

*KK* · 06-25-2003

cj, just you hush up now, I might want to go into the per impression brokering market in mainstream. I can certainly see the value in it for me!

cj · 06-25-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 25 2003, 01:59 AM
cj, just you hush up now, I might want to go into the per impression brokering market in mainstream. I can certainly see the value in it for me!

I *never* show my clients oprano ;-))))

I figure if they found this place they'll know a banner design isn't worth $50

Last edited by cj at Jun 25 2003, 02:18 AM

Calculus · 06-25-2003

Thanks everyone, picking up a lot of good information here, maybe I'm easy meat at present.

But I've been easy meat before, but soon learnt.

Last edited by Calculus at Jun 25 2003, 12:17 AM

06-22-2003	#1
Calculus Members Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 18	Is the concept of Traffic brokers and selling traffic only applicable in the Adult world? __________________ Protect your assets, buy Gold & Silver. GG for conservatives, VGZ & WHT for risk takers.

06-22-2003	#3
Calculus Members Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 18	Thanks AST, you've explained it perfectly. __________________ Protect your assets, buy Gold & Silver. GG for conservatives, VGZ & WHT for risk takers.

06-22-2003	#7
wargames Members Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 58	__________________ easy money giving away free coupon site passes. Adultporngateway.com Adult Porn Search engine

06-23-2003	#8
Calculus Members Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 18	Ha, not buddies but I suppose it looks like it reading the replies. To tell you the truth I didin't really understand this concept too well but am getting a handle on it. The reason that I asked is that I'm trying to take control of certain non-porn search terms and then look to sell that traffic on. But with the advent of ppc and the like I didn't understand how they could be charging so much when a normal banner ad is so small, but I'm getting a handle on this point as well. Check out this for an interesting scope on the whole idea of selling traffic; Obtaining Targeted Web Site Traffic Qualified traffic is the lifeblood of any web site today, especially for ecommerce sites that are selling goods or services online. But, many media buyers and/or owners of web sites are paying too much for traffic by relying on PPC ("pay per click") search engines like Overture or Google's Ad Words Select programs and others. There is a new breed of web site traffic brokers emerging in the interactive marketing world that are brokering qualified traffic to the highest bidder on a CPC ("cost per click") basis. Traffic brokers bypass tried and true business processes by flipping the business proposition 180 degrees. They don't find clients and then optimize their web site for search engines; they do it the other way around, by developing and optimizing their own domains for top search engines and then reselling this traffic by redirecting it to a destination of their choosing in real time. So, is this process illegal or unethical? It's hard to say. I don't believe these processes are more disingenuous than what's occurring with hidden "sponsorship listings" via top search engines, including Yahoo, MSN, LookSmart, Overture, etc. The latter are now starting to take up the lion's share of the first page on search results -- these results are viewed tens of millions of times per day, with many people unaware that the results are "sponsored listings." To muddy the digital waters even more, marketing services companies are starting to offer "trusted feed" traffic to companies who want to buy qualified traffic on a CPC ("cost per click") basis. This process is just starting to take hold in the marketplace and works by a marketing services firm contacting a prospective client and offering them "trusted feed" search engine listings on a top web site like MSN or LookSmart on a CPC "cost per click" basis. They (the marketing services firm) then build web site pages for their client that are based on their in-depth knowledge of what the search engines want and then submit these pages to the search engine/directory's editors who then review the sites, give the "client" a top listing site and then share in the CPC trusted feed revenue with the marketing services firm. It's getting pretty murky when you start to look closely at what and how traffic originates. Brokering traffic may not necessary be bad or unethical as long as the web site that is the final recipient of the traffic is offering goods and services that are identical to the referring web site. And, there is a self-policing component of these types of processes -- the traffic brokers want repeat business, so it is in their self interest to make sure the redirected traffic is being sent to a similar web site. Also, "conversion rates" (the number of people taking a specific action versus the amount of traffic) are rapidly becoming the final determinant of building a sustaining relationship between the traffic brokering firm and the recipient web site. If the traffic coverts then the recipient typically wants to buy more, if not, they will move on to another source -- this reinforces the self-policing aspects of the relationship. So what do you look for if you want to start buying traffic from a web site traffic broker? Price is certainly a large factor in determining what your interest should be. Expect to pay more for filtered ("automotive, insurance, telecommunications") versus unfiltered ("shopping mall type of traffic") as the former has to be carefully filtered for specific keywords or keywords sets so it can be distributed to a larger number of web sites. Next, make sure you get a 24/7 reporting capability that enables you to analyze your traffic in real time -- this report should show the originating keyword traffic (keywords are always embedded in the search string). And look carefully at your report; proxy traffic (or cached pages) should be filtered out so that there is no more than 5-10% of the total traffic -- you can't get away from having some proxy traffic in this day in age, even AOL is using proxy servers. Finally, look closely at your report. The timelines should have some randomness in the sequences; if you see a traffic report with keyword traffic that is spaced very closely in terms of the timeline, warning bells should go off. __________________ Protect your assets, buy Gold & Silver. GG for conservatives, VGZ & WHT for risk takers.

06-23-2003	#10
Calculus Members Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 18	http://www.theonestopwebsiteshop.com/onlin...ted-traffic.htm Just found it looking around on google. I'm not so sharp though, I don't understand your argument. Say you have a stockbroking business (which is nowhere in the search-engines) and I get my site up in the top 10 of google which basically promotes your site, then is that traffic not worth buying on a CPC basis? It's certainly targeted because they've found my site most probably under the term 'stockbroker' etc. __________________ Protect your assets, buy Gold & Silver. GG for conservatives, VGZ & WHT for risk takers.

06-22-2003	#4
cj Members Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Down Under Posts: 5,202	lol are you 2 buddies by any chance?

06-22-2003	#5
voodooman Members Respin bullshit press Your Comments Are Welcomed Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 2,695

06-23-2003	#9
KK Members Respin bullshit press Your Comments Are Welcomed Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,581	Where'd you get that cut and paste? It looks like spam from someone trying to sell impressions. Not a bad gig if you can get it but damn it takes the onus off the seller and puts it on the buyer in a big way, since the seller is getting paid whether or not you get clicked at all...

06-24-2003	#12
Calculus Members Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 18	CJ I was using 'stockbroker' as just an example. Anyway looking at what comes up on google under the search term I don't think getting top 10 in 'stockbroker' would be that much of a problem, and 'UK stockbroker' would be almost a given if you were prepared to work a little. I'm actually starting to build a financial portal along some of these lines and due to the recent shuffle in google have already got 3 of my pages in the top 10 of google for a well known financial search term and 7 of the top 20. And I didn't do anything fancy at all, just created a simple site of about 9 pages of information and then linked into them from a couple of sites that I've got listed on dmoz together with the odd one page on another few domains. All of you can critisize me all you want but I just feel that you're so battle hardened by the viscious competition in the adult world that you don't realise that there's almost no competition for such things as search engines in many different industries especially those located outside of the US. Of course I'm not talking about loans, casinos, flights and the like but there are many specialist industries on the web doing good business or attracting clients and these markets can easily be broken into. __________________ Protect your assets, buy Gold & Silver. GG for conservatives, VGZ & WHT for risk takers.

06-24-2003	#14
Hooper Members Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,156	Calculus. My only worry for you is that you are just now realizing how ppc works. We spend a significant amount on ppc engines.. it's not cheap and as with all things, the market regulates itself such that you either have to do it better than the other guy or have much deeper pockets... cause the bids for the top spots will reach the value of the customer quickly (sighs and remembers the 3 cent top spots on goto back in the day) good luck bud... but if i were you i'd keep my eyes on the ball cause you are an easy target. __________________ Quickbuck is paying $100 Per trial join.

06-25-2003	#15
KK Members Respin bullshit press Your Comments Are Welcomed Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,581	cj, just you hush up now, I might want to go into the per impression brokering market in mainstream. I can certainly see the value in it for me!