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Old 06-17-2003   #1
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The Mafia is way better then these guys. I am glad Keating did not back off his comments.....

The Feds should be investigating this stuff..... :grrr:

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http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/17/national...&partner=GOOGLE

Refusing to Recant, Keating Resigns as Church Panel Chief
By DANIEL J. WAKIN

Refusing to back down from his blunt words about Roman Catholic bishops, Frank Keating, former governor of Oklahoma, resigned yesterday as chairman of the church-appointed panel that is seeking to resolve the sexual abuse scandal involving priests and minors.

"I make no apology," said Mr. Keating, who compared some bishops to "La Cosa Nostra" last week, suggesting that they were continuing to cover up the extent of molestation by members of the clergy.

His comments drew immediate condemnation from the archbishop of Los Angeles, Cardinal Roger M. Mahony, as well as from members of Mr. Keating's own panel, the National Review Board. The board was appointed by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops to monitor compliance with anti-abuse policies established a year ago by the bishops.

In a letter to Bishop Wilton D. Gregory, president of the conference and the man who appointed him, Mr. Keating said he had intended to give up the job after his first year anyway; the position has no time limit. But he came under swift pressure to step down immediately because of the comments. Cardinal Mahony said he and other bishops would raise questions at the bishops' semiannual meeting this week in St. Louis about Mr. Keating's comments.

For the time being, the board's vice chairwoman, Anne M. Burke, will take over as leader. She is a justice of the Illinois appellate court.

The resignation letter sounded the same law-and-order note that Mr. Keating, a former prosecutor and F.B.I. agent, has used from the beginning. That tone had set him at odds with other members of the board, which is made up of prominent Catholics and includes lawyers, business figures, a psychiatrist and a former White House chief of staff, Leon E. Panetta.

The church, he said in the letter, is a "home to Christ's people."

"It is not a criminal enterprise," Mr. Keating said. "It does not condone and cover up criminal activity. It does not follow a code of silence. My remarks, which some bishops found offensive, were deadly accurate. I make no apology.

"To resist grand jury subpoenas, to suppress the names of offending clerics, to deny, to obfuscate, to explain away; that is the model of a criminal organization, not my church."

A spokesman said Mr. Keating would not elaborate on his letter, which was released by the bishops conference.

When they were read the comments, several board members expressed dismay over what they called an excoriating tone.

"Wow!" said Dr. Paul McHugh, the psychiatrist on the board. "O.K., well, I don't see that behavior on the part of bishops at the moment. They're a chastened group."

Dr. McHugh, reflecting the view of several other board members interviewed, said it appeared that Mr. Keating might have felt that he could not carry on the responsibilities of the board along with a demanding job as president and chief executive of the American Council of Life Insurers in Washington.

"I think his reckless behavior in his verbiage reflects a lack of caring for the job he has, not being able to commit himself to it," Dr. McHugh said.

Pamela D. Hayes, a board member and a New York lawyer, said that Mr. Keating was giving a false impression about the behavior of bishops and that some of the actions he ascribed to the bishops were legitimate attempts to defend themselves in a legal case.

"Maybe Frank feels like that," Ms. Hayes said. "Maybe people appreciate the force of that language. But it's my sense you don't shame people into doing the right thing. The vast majority of people are doing the right thing."

Some board members had said last week that critics of the church would seize on Mr. Keating's resignation as a sign that the bishops were not serious about reform.

Mark Serrano, a board member of Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests, an advocacy and support group, said of Mr. Keating in a statement released yesterday: "If a layman of his prominence, skills and credentials can be forced out by a few thin-skinned bishops it's hard to be optimistic about the sincerity of church leaders and their pledges to do better on sexual abuse."

Mr. Keating, in his letter, acknowledged that most American bishops supported the board. He laid out its accomplishments: studying the causes and scope of the phenomenon of abuse; carrying out what it calls an audit of the nation's 195 dioceses to make sure they are putting new child protection policies in place; and creating the Office of Child and Youth Protection, led by a former F.B.I. official.

The presence of outside overseers, Mr. Keating said, will ensure that bishops will not tolerate sexual abuse and will refer all cases to law enforcement authorities.

Bishop Gregory responded to Mr. Keating's resignation by releasing a letter to him that was full of praise. He said Mr. Keating had made an "enormous contribution" to the church. The closest he came to mentioning the latest incident was a reference to an "intense environment" full of strong emotions and scrutiny by the news media.

"There were bound to be moments of difficulty," Bishop Gregory said.



Last edited by sarettah at Jun 16 2003, 11:35 PM
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Old 06-17-2003   #2
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Gotta give the man respect, he called it the way he saw it....
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Old 06-17-2003   #3
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I fear the Catholics more than I fear the mafia...

I've been on an anti-Catholic kick for years and have written several articles about it and their strong arm tactics, etc. but was dismissed as an "atheist nutcase" but funny who all of this is coming out to the public now....
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Old 06-17-2003   #4
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SykkBoy. what exactly is the checkmate product? I tried to figure it out from the checkmate.com site, but could not figure it out....

Is is it some kind of DNA thing?
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Old 06-17-2003   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jun 17 2003, 01:53 AM
SykkBoy. what exactly is the checkmate product? I tried to figure it out from the checkmate.com site, but could not figure it out....

Is is it some kind of DNA thing?
The guys are re-vamping the site as per my request to explain it more

It is a test that tests for traces of semen. If a man suspects is wife of cheating, he can take an article of clothing of hers and test it for the presence of semen (obivously would not be a piece of clothing she may have worn after having sex with him). Women seem to be buying the test as well, but semen in men's clothing can be attributed to masturbation. The producers of the Jenny Jones show sometimes uses the product on their "I Suspect My Wife Is Cheating" type episodes.

The company that makes the product has done very well selling retail, but are having problems with internet sales, so I'm guiding them through a revamp of their site and of course pumping up their affiliate program.

hint, hint, anyone wanting to mail the product, we're finding decent sales through bulk mail campaigns (very targeted at the moment, haven't mailed anything "general" yet)
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Old 06-17-2003   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jun 17 2003, 01:51 AM
I fear the Catholics more than I fear the mafia...
Aren't the mafia catholic?

Don Corleone sure was!
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Old 06-17-2003   #7
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Quote:


Originally posted by Timon+Jun 17 2003, 02:18 AM-->
QUOTE (Timon @ Jun 17 2003, 02:18 AM)
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Old 06-17-2003   #8
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hahaha, damn okies.
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Old 06-17-2003   #9
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and how do you like the story about Arhiobishop of Phoenix and his hit and run accident????
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Old 06-17-2003   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jun 17 2003, 06:20 AM
and how do you like the story about Arhiobishop of Phoenix and his hit and run accident????
Yeah, I caught that on CNN this morning....

He thought maybe a Cat or Dog or Rock might have hit his windshield ???

Yeah... Right......

I saw the pics of the car... Passenger side of the windshield shattered pretty good... caved in a few inches....

Doesn't matter what he though he hit, seems to me that if my windshield takes a hit like that, I am gonna stop and find out what the fuck it was that did it...

Fucking people.....
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Old 06-17-2003   #11
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Catholic church is definately the most corrupt entity..... What other entity has lasted so long? Had so much power?

It is amazing.... it is actually kind of inspiring....

Anyone want to start a church with me???
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Old 06-17-2003   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jun 17 2003, 10:57 AM
Catholic church is definately the most corrupt entity..... What other entity has lasted so long? Had so much power?

It is amazing.... it is actually kind of inspiring....

Anyone want to start a church with me???
MikeAI,
why? why?? why??
do you make my private proposal public?????
;-)))
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Old 06-17-2003   #13
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Just trying to build some BUZZ for ya Serge!!

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Old 06-17-2003   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jun 17 2003, 11:07 AM
Just trying to build some BUZZ for ya Serge!!

I am affraid somebody gets the drift and I be cannonized before we are ready
;-))))
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Old 06-17-2003   #15
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Never met a rabbi who didn't drive a 40+k car

Good recurring in churches, no taxes, hmmmm
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Old 06-17-2003   #16
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Church!


Its all about the bling bling!!!
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Old 06-17-2003   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jun 17 2003, 06:20 AM
and how do you like the story about Arhiobishop of Phoenix and his hit and run accident????
lol.. He made the smoking gun....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/doc_o_day/doc_o_day.shtml

JUNE 17--Meet Thomas O'Brien. The Roman Catholic bishop was arrested yesterday and charged in connection with a fatal hit and run in Arizona. According to this report, filed in Superior Court by Phoenix police, O'Brien, 67, was driving Saturday night when his vehicle struck Jim Reed, a 43-year-old pedestrian, who later "died from injuries sustained in the collision." Thanks to a witness who copied down O'Brien's license plate, cops tracked down the cleric, who claimed that he "thought he hit a dog, cat, or someone threw rock at car." But serious damage to the car and its windshield make O'Brien's explanation seem laughable (unless that tabby weighed 235 pounds). Before cops came with cuffs, O'Brien had arranged for the damaged windshield to get repaired. O'Brien is no stranger to criminal investigators. Last month, in a deal to avoid indictment on obstruction charges, the bishop publicly admitted that he had concealed numerous instances of sexual misconduct by priests against minors. He also acknowledged that he transferred predatory priests from church to church without disclosing their tainted history to parishioners. O'Brien, released on $45,000 bond, faces a June 25 preliminary hearing in the hit and run case. (4 pages)
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Old 06-17-2003   #18
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I am most definitely not a Roman Catholic, nor am I a fan of the institution or many of their doctrines. Haven't followed much about this situation because it seems like everybody and their mother has an ax to grind when they get in front of a camera to talk about it. I pay LITTLE attention to those members of the church who comment on the matter; I pay NO attention when non-Catholics comment on the issue, because you can really see personal prejudices and biases come out to play.

I can see the inherent problems in the whole question for the Church, however. The Church, unlike most of society today, believes in forgiveness, redemption and rehabilitation. IMHO they have a complicated dilemma - at what point does "rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and unto God that which is God" become a criminal cover-up? An abdication of the Church's responsibility to minister to the offender and the offended, who are, according to doctrine, equal in the eyes of God?

Any hysterically-inclined who have gotten this far please note - nothing I said should be taken as a defense of child-molesting priests. Nothing I've said should be taken as a defense of covering up that horrid activity.
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Old 06-17-2003   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jun 17 2003, 12:50 PM
I am most definitely not a Roman Catholic, nor am I a fan of the institution or many of their doctrines. Haven't followed much about this situation because it seems like everybody and their mother has an ax to grind when they get in front of a camera to talk about it. I pay LITTLE attention to those members of the church who comment on the matter; I pay NO attention when non-Catholics comment on the issue, because you can really see personal prejudices and biases come out to play.

I can see the inherent problems in the whole question for the Church, however. The Church, unlike most of society today, believes in forgiveness, redemption and rehabilitation. IMHO they have a complicated dilemma - at what point does "rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and unto God that which is God" become a criminal cover-up? An abdication of the Church's responsibility to minister to the offender and the offended, who are, according to doctrine, equal in the eyes of God?

Any hysterically-inclined who have gotten this far please note - nothing I said should be taken as a defense of child-molesting priests. Nothing I've said should be taken as a defense of covering up that horrid activity.
Don't get me wrong, I don't just have an axe to grind with the Catholics because of their belief in some ghost in the sky...I've studied most religions. I actually contemplated becoming a theology major in college. The Catholic church has a history of crooked dealings, strongarm tactics and corruption. It was always hushed or glossed over because no one would dare question such a powerful entity. Believe me, the Catholic Church doesn't have a monopoly on corruption.

I personally have nothing against Catholic people, but I do have a lot of problems with their cult. I can overlook their policy of sin however much you want (but don't get an abortion or a divorce) and then come Sunday "forgive me for I have sinned" While the idea of a free pass for sinning sounds tempting, I just prefer to live my life without harming other people, by respecting other peoples' opinions and being a "righteous dude". It's like people who've never attended a church service nor cracked a bible in their life sayin "I'll pray for you" or "God bless you"
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Old 06-18-2003   #20
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Well, the Bishop in Phoenix went ahead and resigned apparently.....

From Fox News:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,89741,00.html

VATICAN CITY — Pope John Paul II accepted the resignation Wednesday of Bishop Thomas O'Brien (search) of Phoenix, who has been charged with leaving the scene of a fatal pedestrian-car accident.

.........................

Paul Pfaffenberger, organizer of the Phoenix chapter of the Survivors' Network of Those Abused by Priests (search), said O'Brien's response to both the sexual abuse allegations and hit-and-run case demonstrate his refusal to accept responsibility.

"His decision with sexual abuse was to discredit, deny or run away from victims and to protect his priests," Pfaffenberger said. "Unfortunately, faced with a traffic accident, he once again ignored the victim and drove away."
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