Nuts & Tots

I spent three months checking out the boards. I started at oprano's
and finished at GFY. It's no surprise why this industry is having so
many problems. I remember back when it started, the first vid clip
then streaming video. It was so cool watching those people who
are now old timers build an entertainment industry out of thin air.
And it's really sad to see what some of those that came after have
done to it.

Three month's and 1,000's of message's later, there's only one place
where I'm convinced that intelligent life still exist in this industry.

So when push come's to shove, I'd rather spend my time on a board
ran by a Nut, rather than waste it on boards filled with Tot's. And beside's,
if Serge really is nuts you probally never know until it's too late to
run.

Happy New Year to Everyone and you to Serge!

T.C.



Last edited by sinfulone at Dec 31 2002, 03:41 PM

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by sinfulone@Dec 31 2002, 06:26 PM
I spent three months checking out the boards. I started at oprano's
and finished at GFY. It's no surprise why this industry is having so
many problems. I remember back when it started, the first vid clip
then streaming video. It was so cool watching those people who
are now old timers build an entertainment industry out of thin air.
And it's really sad to see what some of those that came after have
done to it.

Three month's and 1,000's of message's later, there's only one place
where I'm convinced that intelligent life still exist in this industry.

So when push come's to shove, I'd rather spend my time on a board
ran by a Nut, rather than waste it on boards filled with Tot's. And beside's,
if Serge really is nuts you probally never know until it's too late to
run.

Happy New Year to Everyone and you to Serge!

T.C.

sinful, same to you
;-)

the boards today are not the boards of 1997, when this industry was young and new,
today's boards are 50% useful information, 50% pure bullshit and the trick is to know WHICH 50% you are reading
;-)))

I like GFY, I do find few folks who are worth knowing and...
with the rest, I cna feel the smartest shit around, even when I make complete idiot of myself
;-)

[Mike AI]

Serge, I would say that the % is much higher..... 75% out there is bullshit.

Some of it is obvious BS, but there is a small percentage that many people take as fact... to their detriment.

2002 surely was not 1997......

Ahh I feel old - keep on sighing and saying, "remember the old days?"

I am however bullish overall... but I am an eternal optimist.

[Nickatilynx]

Ahh I feel old - keep on sighing and saying, "remember the old days?"

Welcome sinfulone,

Please forgive Serge and Mike those two are like the two old gits on the muppets!!!

Constantly living in the past and criticising.

You know I remember back in 1997 those two ..........












HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!

Just one small guiness.....go on..

[Mutt]

hi T.C.

different strokes different folks here and GFY, though there is some cross pollination.

Oprano skews older than GFY - avg age probably 33-35. GFY's probably early 20's.

T.C.[/quote]
sinful, same to you;-)

the boards today are not the boards of 1997, when this industry was young and new, today's boards are 50% useful information, 50% pure bullshit and the trick is to know WHICH 50% you are reading ;-)))

I like GFY, I do find few folks who are worth knowing and... with the rest, I cna feel the smartest shit around, even when I make complete idiot of myself ;-)[/quote]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gfy is a good information source but the 50-75% BS you have read through
to find it is really time consuming.

Oprano's is a unique board, a lot of people here including yourself were
the pioneer's that gave birth to this industry. In fact Oprano's is the only
place that I know of on the internet where there's a hidden treasure, open
it and money will fall from the sky and flow like water.

In fact a lot people like you, vick, mike ai, dianne and mutt help bury it here.
A little trivia for 2003... where is that buried treasure that stranger was
talking about. It's here and I'm dead serious.

If I was to ask "what caused the lights to dim in online adult" I'd get a
different answer from every person and most of what I hear aren't causes
but effects from the cause.

Before you can have an industry there must be innovation and people like
you, vick, mike ai, dianne and mutt and places like Oprano's were great
innovator's. If you would of looked closely back through history it would
of warned you that big trouble was coming. Great innovation has always
been followed by a period of great imitation.

This period of great imitation has attracted more thieve's than all the other
great industrial events in history combined. The internet offer's great
opportunity for the good and bad.

The bad people came and robbed you of your glory, they in fact have taken
your industry stopped it in it's track's and are draining the blood from it's
veins and they intend on doing so until it's gone.

If that happen's this industry will experience the final period, massive
fallout. It's not my personal opinion or prediction, it is a fact that has been
recorded throughout the history of an industrial world, a world that is no
more.

Think about this; the internet was responsible for taking us from an
industrail society into the present, a post modern society. However,
online adult hasn't responded. Very unusual.

What can you do about it? The answers are in the buried treasure
here at Oprano.

I'll give you one hint, it ain't me it has nothing to do with me.


Happy New Year and be sure to check out my new thread titled
"Online Adult 2003"



Last edited by sinfulone at Jan 1 2003, 02:26 PM

[Winetalk.com]

sinfulone,
1) your button is not clickable either.

2) this is in SHORT what took place in the last 7 years:

'till Feb 11, 1996 the adult internet was nothing but a bunch of amateurs living in peace and harmony,
no money were made on the net
(I don't concider $25 for used panties and donations as money)

after Feb 11th, 1996 'till June of 1996
(the dates of CDA was passed by Congress and overturned by court in Pennsylvania) the amateurs were running for cover, and the first Al Hadhazies of this world were coming into play, while remaining amateurs were fighting with each other for sponsors dollars

Ron Levies, phone sex people, big business and playboys got into the game after June of 1996 and REAL games have begun with introduction of the first pay per click webmaster program

Video feeds came in 1997 and went from $5000 a month to FREE,

first TGP's came in 1998 along with productivity programs (Ron Levi and FREE memberships and.."your card will never be charged")

one year later the first 3rd party processor went belly up (DMR)
year 200,2001, 2002 were remarkable in it's nothingness, as no new ideas were hitting adult net.

whoever can come with NEW IDEAS will inherit the world.

Big question in my mind is WHO is gonna move the ball from here forward?

"oldtimers" are "fat cats" who lost their ability to invent as hunger and fun of the earlier days are gone and even those who are still there, do it more for fun than the necessity, and as we all know,
NECESSITY is a mother of Invention

The "New Generation" are high schoolers who are happy with $100 a month pocket money and are not educated well enough to come with any significant new innovations.

I stick to "the game" out of a pure curiosity,
I AM curious of
"what's next"? I think it's worth a wait.

and...this si my LONGEST post in the last 9 months
;-)))

you have inspired me to it.
;-))

Originally posted by Mike AI@Dec 31 2002, 03:49 PM
Serge, I would say that the % is much higher..... 75% out there is bullshit.

Some of it is obvious BS, but there is a small percentage that many people take as fact... to their detriment.

2002 surely was not 1997......

Ahh I feel old - keep on sighing and saying, "remember the old days?"

I am however bullish overall... but I am an eternal optimist.

I agree with 75% BS. I also noticed that there are a lot of wolves in sheep
wool hanging out over there. I've never seen any over here or at least
for very long. I think bullish and optimistic will produce optimal results
in 2003 and beyond.

Happy New Year! Mike

[Winetalk.com]

I think bullish and optimistic will produce optimal results
************************************************

I always was a pessimist. I never belivedthe show will go forever and always treated every day of money to be made on the net as last day.

Mike always was an optimist, that's how we both compliment each other
;-)))

[RawAlex]

Serge, funny part you and Mike are both right.

This won't last forever. But porn (and sex business) was here before us, will be here after us... "second oldest profession"... (The third was letting people peep in and see the girls of the second oldest profession working).

Therefore, it isn't just "porn on the net" but "porn"... following the money to where it leads.

Alex

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jan 1 2003, 01:48 PM
sinfulone,
1) your button is not clickable either.

you have inspired me to it.
;-))

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, I couldn't get it to be clickable so I did a patch job.

I've visited this place a lot over the years. I watched you guys go through
these phases you talk about.

I watched you guys reveal page by page the answers to questions that mainstream entertainment had been seeking since it's birth. Knowing them and even using some of them as weapons made a decade of my life a lot easier.

To give you example of what I just said, let's take reality tv. Been really
successful. This past year saw the rise of adult reality sites like
BangBus etc... they got great response.

So I guess you could say that online adult got a great idea from mainstream tv.

Wrong! The online adult industry is where mainstream entertainment
learned from your unique and sophisticated audience that it would
work. I bet you guys didn't know that did you. Mainstream entertainment
isn't the only industry that studies your audience. In fact by now the
only one that doesn't is the online adult industry itself.

Now that you got me started Serge, I'm going to reveal that hidden
treasure here at Oprano.

You can find it by locating the longest thread ever in the history of Oprano.
The authors of it each had a piece of the puzzle figured out but I'm sorry
to tell you that a woman kicked your asses, Dianne had for the most part
every single answer to the problems this industry is experiencing.

Most people who are now entering online adult are doing so with hope's
of getting rich quick. That's what imitation is all about.

My partner and I have come for a completely different reason. One of them
have to do with sponsers that like to butt fuck people's credit cards as well
as those that offer to pay more out than what they will ever bring in to someone that sends them traffic.

What they're doing make's it almost impossible for an honest busness man or woman to compete. It's a shell game, they show a lot of money under one cup but you'll end up with the cup that has the least amount in it every
time single time, there's no other way to do it and make a lot money.

Stay inspired Serge, Oprano is the perfect place for the revolution to begin.

Happy New Year!

[Winetalk.com]

that's an interesting observation:
"Wrong! The online adult industry is where mainstream entertainment
learned from your unique and sophisticated audience that it would
work. I bet you guys didn't know that did you. Mainstream entertainment
isn't the only industry that studies your audience. In fact by now the
only one that doesn't is the online adult industry itself."

I never thought of that...

[Winetalk.com]

What they're doing make's it almost impossible for an honest busness man or woman to compete. It's a shell game, they show a lot of money under one cup but you'll end up with the cup that has the least amount in it every
time single time, there's no other way to do it and make a lot money.

**********************************************

...and I found back in 1979, on 42nd Street in NYC that dealing 3 cards monte is much more profitable than playing it
;-)))

if anybody wanna join me in Vegas for a friendly game of 3 cards monte-
I'll deal the cards
;-)))

[Mike AI]

Sinful, Serge....

I have been thinking about the industry and how people come into it, the newbie class.

Back in the old days, there was nothing like TGPs, and such - so people had to come up with real plans, real sites, and develop real skills in order to prosper. These are the people who developed the industry. There were no easy, lazy ways of making business. Thus the industry demanded critical thinking, hard work, networking, and being able to change on a dime.

Today, newbies come in - and they are immediately drawn to easy work of TGPs. As much as TGPs delvier traffic ( shitty traffic), they make it easy for those who do not want to really work, or to develop a business plan. Today's newbies, just plug away being misled by the Succubus that is TGPs and such.

TGPs and other lazy mens get rich quick ideas have not only hurt this industry by flooding market with free content, but more importantly it has stutunded the growth of all the new webmasters who have come around the past 2-3 years.

It seems most people are lazy, not only physically, but mentally, intellectually - most people look for the easy route to maqke money, and hope for luck ( the lotto syndrome I call it - Most Americans think they will become rich by winning lottery, rather then working hard and saving).

In away, the advent of these stunted growth newbies have made my job easier, and helped me keep my market share. But it has also hurt becaquse the influx of people who just want to follow the lame route of TGP type webmastering, so there has been NO innovations at all.

With a few exceptions, I have not seen anyone really develop the pst 3-4 years from newbie, to player...

TGPs Webmastering is like a lake that has collected to many pesticides. No longer are we getting strong healthy fish developing, but rather weak, 3 eyed, reatrded fish that are posioness...

Anyway, I have probably ranted on long enough.

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 31 2002, 05:04 PM

Welcome sinfulone,

Please forgive Serge and Mike those two are like the two old gits on the muppets!!!

Constantly living in the past and criticising.

You know I remember back in 1997 those two ..........












HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!

Just one small guiness.....go on..

Thanks, I know what you mean. It's kind of weird but the older I get
(I'm 46) the less I give a shit about things that really don't matter once your dead and just like serge and mike I find myself looking back and
comparing.

When I was young I use to think my folks were clueless and now I'm
finding out how come they knew so much, experience. The older you
get the more you learn what life is all about, that it's short.

Happy New Year, Nick! you've been around a while your self.

[Winetalk.com]

Mike,
you nailed it!

I think we should party more often,
good company, drinks and food stimulate the brains
;_))

"Back in the old days, there was nothing like TGPs, and such - so people had to come up with real plans, real sites, and develop real skills in order to prosper. These are the people who developed the industry. There were no easy, lazy ways of making business. Thus the industry demanded critical thinking, hard work, networking, and being able to change on a dime.
"

IS A PEARL!

[Winetalk.com]

another great one:
"It's kind of weird but the older I get
(I'm 46) the less I give a shit about things that really don't matter once your dead "

I did a significant change in my life in 2002...I stopped telling lies to my family and close ones...
needless to say I lost ties with 1/2 of them
;-)))

"give a shit about things that really don't matter once your dead" has it's draw backs while you are still alive
;-))

but that's life and I don't complain

[Nickatilynx]

sinfulone,
You seem to have a good grasp on things.Great seeing you post

...I stopped telling lies to my family and close ones...
needless to say I lost ties with 1/2 of them

Only half?Not bad.

Never ever tell the truth to webmasters and surfers. (Lets be frank , webmasters are more guillable than surfers.)

I mean if someone opened an affiliate program saying this....
1.) We will only shave you 50%................. ok 75% tops
2.) We can only pay $19 per free join...its all its worth (if you want $45 per join see point 1 ,it becomes 90%)
3.) We gonna have $10 join fridays!!!!
4.) My bannerfree free host skims prolly about 15% of your traffic...but hey thats not bad!!! We make sure its the good traffic too.
5.) Turn off the stats?What stats? I make up the numbers
6.) If you post on Oprano I'll shave you less,if you post on gfy I'll really shave you or find a reason to not pay you.Why? You're a tgper...no one values your opinion

hmmmmm you know....I think it could be time for St.Anthony to open a click proggie Seriously.Maybe loads of webmasters would join a (shudder) honest program.

Originally posted by Mutt@Dec 31 2002, 07:26 PM
hi T.C.

different strokes different folks here and GFY, though there is some cross pollination.

Oprano skews older than GFY - avg age probably 33-35. GFY's probably early 20's.

Hey buddy, I knew you were here. I noticed your handle so I
knew it was cool to come out of hiding.

I guess what I've said so far at oprano isn't anything you haven't heard
before since I told you most of it first. I like it here, the color scheme is
so much better and the pace isn't so overwhelming and it looks to me
like's it home port for one of the nets best so it's got to be a great place.

Oprano is where I'll start opening up our hand, revealing our plan.
Maybe it's home to some of the major players you said you know. We'll see...

Happy New Year! Mutt. Jimmy sends the same.

[Winetalk.com]

Nick, hahahahah!!!!!

I was telling the truth for 2 years, but NO, nobody believes in the truth
;-))
I said in black in white:
"I shave"!

human nature...everybody believes that there are billion of stars out there, but nobody beleives the sign :"This bench is fresfly painted"
;-))))

[Nickatilynx]

Yup serge.I believed you!

You must have paid me $2m

What you made from those hits? No ones business but your own and good luck to you.

BTW I still have the copy email of you instructing John Cotac to turn up the shave as I was making too much money LOL John fucking did too!!!!

[Nickatilynx]

Tell a room full of webmasters that you farted.And they will all sniff to smell it!

[sextoyking]

Sinfulone,

welcome to oprano.

the gold rush days of the past are about over in the adult net side of things, but there is still lots of good coin to be made.

the last 2 or so years, there hasn't been alot of new ideas, innovations on the adult side, but I think as broadband gets more and more into people's home's it will bring out new products, I hope)

happy new year

todd

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 1 2003, 09:25 PM
Yup serge.I believed you!

You must have paid me $2m

What you made from those hits? No ones business but your own and good luck to you.

BTW I still have the copy email of you instructing John Cotac to turn up the shave as I was making too much money LOL John fucking did too!!!!

Nick,
for every dollar I paid I took about $1.07 for "organization"
;-)))

I never claimed to be "non for profit organization" like Mark Tiarra did back in a day
;-)))

[Winetalk.com]

BTW I still have the copy email of you instructing John Cotac to turn up the shave as I was making too much money LOL John fucking did too!!!!

*************************************

Nick, we are both from the same "honest crook" school,
I never shaved "under the table"
;-)))

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jan 1 2003, 05:22 PM
What they're doing make's it almost impossible for an honest busness man or woman to compete. It's a shell game, they show a lot of money under one cup but you'll end up with the cup that has the least amount in it every
time single time, there's no other way to do it and make a lot money.

**********************************************

...and I found back in 1979, on 42nd Street in NYC that dealing 3 cards monte is much more profitable than playing it
;-)))

if anybody wanna join me in Vegas for a friendly game of 3 cards monte-
I'll deal the cards
;-)))

And that's exactly what their doing and there's got be a whole lot of money
at stake because their programs continue to become more confusing. It
won't be long until their offering blowjobs, a free tank of gas and a month
supply of Alpo and telling what else.

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jan 1 2003, 02:09 PM
I think bullish and optimistic will produce optimal results
************************************************

I always was a pessimist. I never belivedthe show will go forever and always treated every day of money to be made on the net as last day.

Mike always was an optimist, that's how we both compliment each other
;-)))

I know a lot of people that think online adult isn't going to survive. When
you think about all the BS that's go on it make's you step back and wonder
how it did survive. It just has a very unique and highly sophisticated audience that refuses to give up.

This audience has had their cc butt fucked, they've been tossed and turned
and fried on both sides, been tricked, trapped and cheated at every turn.
But there still there bigger than they ever were.

What's changed is that only a small % transact which are probally newbies
and the other's either try to quench their thirst on the free stuff or rip the
webmaster back by charging back.

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 1 2003, 06:26 PM
Tell a room full of webmasters that you farted.And they will all sniff to smell it!

That is so funny

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 1 2003, 05:26 PM
Sinful, Serge....

I have been thinking about the industry and how people come into it, the newbie class.

Back in the old days, there was nothing like TGPs, and such - so people had to come up with real plans, real sites, and develop real skills in order to prosper. These are the people who developed the industry. There were no easy, lazy ways of making business. Thus the industry demanded critical thinking, hard work, networking, and being able to change on a dime.

Today, newbies come in - and they are immediately drawn to easy work of TGPs. As much as TGPs delvier traffic ( shitty traffic), they make it easy for those who do not want to really work, or to develop a business plan. Today's newbies, just plug away being misled by the Succubus that is TGPs and such.

TGPs and other lazy mens get rich quick ideas have not only hurt this industry by flooding market with free content, but more importantly it has stutunded the growth of all the new webmasters who have come around the past 2-3 years.

It seems most people are lazy, not only physically, but mentally, intellectually - most people look for the easy route to maqke money, and hope for luck ( the lotto syndrome I call it - Most Americans think they will become rich by winning lottery, rather then working hard and saving).

In away, the advent of these stunted growth newbies have made my job easier, and helped me keep my market share. But it has also hurt becaquse the influx of people who just want to follow the lame route of TGP type webmastering, so there has been NO innovations at all.

With a few exceptions, I have not seen anyone really develop the pst 3-4 years from newbie, to player...

TGPs Webmastering is like a lake that has collected to many pesticides. No longer are we getting strong healthy fish developing, but rather weak, 3 eyed, reatrded fish that are posioness...

Anyway, I have probably ranted on long enough.

I think the pioneers had two things on their mind when they came, one
they really wanted to be in this business and two they wanted to make
it profitable by doing good business.

Over the last year I have research this industry in every direction but the
TGP direction so I went and checked it out the other day to see what all
the fuss was about.

Looks like a gigantic dumping ground to me, one thing for sure the people
that built that shit had a lot of time on their hands. I only went to a few
places but that was plenty enough to get a good idea. I don't imagine too
much traffic would convert.

Originally posted by sextoyking@Jan 1 2003, 07:23 PM
Sinfulone,

welcome to oprano.

the gold rush days of the past are about over in the adult net side of things, but there is still lots of good coin to be made.

the last 2 or so years, there hasn't been alot of new ideas, innovations on the adult side, but I think as broadband gets more and more into people's home's it will bring out new products, I hope)

happy new year

todd

Thanks for the welcome!

It is possible to make good coin right now, a good business man can
draw water out of a dry well. They can also build a great nation in a free
society. But you have to admit that the state this industry offers limited
possibilties even for the good business man.

If it can be turned around the sky is the limit.





Last edited by sinfulone at Jan 2 2003, 03:11 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 1 2003, 05:59 PM
sinfulone,
You seem to have a good grasp on things.Great seeing you post

Only half?Not bad.

Never ever tell the truth to webmasters and surfers. (Lets be frank , webmasters are more guillable than surfers.)

I mean if someone opened an affiliate program saying this....
1.) We will only shave you 50%................. ok 75% tops
2.) We can only pay $19 per free join...its all its worth (if you want $45 per join see point 1 ,it becomes 90%)
3.) We gonna have $10 join fridays!!!!
4.) My bannerfree free host skims prolly about 15% of your traffic...but hey thats not bad!!! We make sure its the good traffic too.
5.) Turn off the stats?What stats? I make up the numbers
6.) If you post on Oprano I'll shave you less,if you post on gfy I'll really shave you or find a reason to not pay you.Why? You're a tgper...no one values your opinion

hmmmmm you know....I think it could be time for St.Anthony to open a click proggie Seriously.Maybe loads of webmasters would join a (shudder) honest program.

Thanks Nick!

After I get some sleep I'll talk about some real important
stuff.