Any predictions for 2009?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by tony404

If they dont spend money they arent customers and probably half the surfers on tubes arent old enough to have a credit card. THe key is going to be locking down content so its not so easy to take.

If they don't spend money why do we spend so much time, money and effort targetting them to pass by?

The key is not locking down content, it's having content that's worth locking down.

Toby has got a solution. If you're just offering the same product as Tubes give away, why should a surfer getting it for free become a member spending money?

Think beyond where we are now.

[Hell Puppy]

I do see a lot of doom and gloom for 2009 unfortunately. Until someone gets a handle on this economy, it hurts all of us. And I dont think it can be done in 12 months.

Now there is an upside simply in that adversity creates opportunity, and that is certainly going to be true in adult as well.

[Hell Puppy]

...and so it degrades into another tubes are killing us thread??

Tubes continue to provoke a reaction from many people in the business, especially those who do their own content. The gut reaction is that it's an outlet for people to see the work you slaved over for free. And for many, perhaps most, of the tube sites out there, that's a true statement.

But reacting emotionally doesn't help your bank account. Like many other things in the business, they've become a fact of life. The genie is out of the bottle, it's not going back in. So you have to figure out how to leverage it.

There's also one key realization you have to reach in this business. There's a percentage, and a large one at that, of surfers who will never ever pay for porn. There's nothing you can do to make them. Some of these people are also going to go to extremes to see your stuff even though they will never pay for it.

There is no profit in that entire market segment, in fact, there is no income in it, it is all expense if you opt to try to fight it. Spend your time going after those that WILL pay instead.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

...and so it degrades into another tubes are killing us thread??

Tubes continue to provoke a reaction from many people in the business, especially those who do their own content. The gut reaction is that it's an outlet for people to see the work you slaved over for free. And for many, perhaps most, of the tube sites out there, that's a true statement.

But reacting emotionally doesn't help your bank account. Like many other things in the business, they've become a fact of life. The genie is out of the bottle, it's not going back in. So you have to figure out how to leverage it.

There's also one key realization you have to reach in this business. There's a percentage, and a large one at that, of surfers who will never ever pay for porn. There's nothing you can do to make them. Some of these people are also going to go to extremes to see your stuff even though they will never pay for it.

There is no profit in that entire market segment, in fact, there is no income in it, it is all expense if you opt to try to fight it. Spend your time going after those that WILL pay instead.

Big Ron says that as his unique expertise as a B2B company [precheck cross sale broker I suppose] that tubes have been his problem all year.

It makes it tough to rip off the surfer for shit they didnt order I guess...SON!

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

...and so it degrades into another tubes are killing us thread??

Tubes continue to provoke a reaction from many people in the business, especially those who do their own content. The gut reaction is that it's an outlet for people to see the work you slaved over for free. And for many, perhaps most, of the tube sites out there, that's a true statement.

But reacting emotionally doesn't help your bank account. Like many other things in the business, they've become a fact of life. The genie is out of the bottle, it's not going back in. So you have to figure out how to leverage it.

There's also one key realization you have to reach in this business. There's a percentage, and a large one at that, of surfers who will never ever pay for porn. There's nothing you can do to make them. Some of these people are also going to go to extremes to see your stuff even though they will never pay for it.

There is no profit in that entire market segment, in fact, there is no income in it, it is all expense if you opt to try to fight it. Spend your time going after those that WILL pay instead.

Good post. Yes Tubes are here to stay and few have any answer to them. Some think locking down content, silly really as all it will do is make the Tube owners buy cheap DVDs at the local porn shop. $20 for 5 scenes. LOL

Giving away toys, gadgets, box tops is pointless but that's not the limit of what we can give away. However the upcoming generation never did pay for porn. A 16 to 20 year old has hardly refined his porn tastes to not be able to jerk off to anything. The Internet taught them that everything should be free not just porn.

As for the huge percentage who will never spend, as an industry we have always spent more money on them than those who will spend. We all need to think about the inside of our sites and not the outside and free surfers.

Here's things that you can give members.

A lot more content for their money. And a lot better content, the best can always be improved on.
A membership that suits their needs. And not our needs.
Live Web Cam or live show for free. And a cheap upsell to show the Tube surfers a cheaper way.
Live online chat with girls for free.
Dating sites content for free, that's tough but it can be done. Aand a cheap upsell to show the Tube surfers a cheaper way.


All the above are doable, tell me why you can't.
If enough people offer free web Cam and dating sites content that will directly effect Tubes bottom line. They give away free videos to upsell. We give away free Web Cam to sell videos.

Will it work if enough do it? No one knows for sure.
Can we afford it? We can if we cut affiliate payments by half the cost and make up the sites cost and affiliates drop in earnings by increased sign ups.
Will people give it a shot? Not likely, it takes balls to give it a shot. and that's the problem. So many posts whining about Tubes stealing content and very little to suggest how we stop them. Hitting their bottom line, advertising revenues, is the only way. There is no legal avenue to follow, locking down content is ridiculous and whining is pointless.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

If they don't spend money why do we spend so much time, money and effort targetting them to pass by?

The key is not locking down content, it's having content that's worth locking down.

Toby has got a solution. If you're just offering the same product as Tubes give away, why should a surfer getting it for free become a member spending money?

Think beyond where we are now.

the answer will be to lock it down so they cant get it for free. Also this well tubes are here so I guess we all got to bend over is ridiculous. They are teaching a whole upcoming generation why pay when you can get it for free. Most porn buyers don't want toys, gadgets, box tops anything that gives evidence to their activities.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by tony404

Most porn buyers don't want toys, gadgets, box tops anything that gives evidence to their activities.

Agreed, but you can offer a product that illegal tubes don't without needing any of those things. Tube = video. Still do what you can to lock down your video, it will slow down the theft, but there's alot of other things to offer on a pay site that doesn't involve video.

The primary advantage that true amateur sites have always had is the interaction with their members. I think some of that has gotten lost, or has dropped in priority over the last few years. (I can't speak for your site, since I've never seen the member side). That interaction is something that tubes can't offer. That's just one example, there are many more.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by tony404

the answer will be to lock it down so they cant get it for free. Also this well tubes are here so I guess we all got to bend over is ridiculous. They are teaching a whole upcoming generation why pay when you can get it for free. Most porn buyers don't want toys, gadgets, box tops anything that gives evidence to their activities.

Its not a matter of teaching anyone anything.
If they want to swipe it they are going to... no matter what you do.

The issue is making it easier.
I hear all this whining about giving away sample content but I always think of it like Far L put it a few years about when he equated it to free samples at the mall.

You dont feed em a meal... you give them a taste.

Hickory Farms
Chick Fil A
CostCo
and what ever chinese food vendor is in your food court all do the same thing.

Nick3131 isnt going to EVER buy anything there... hes going to try to make a meal off of whats being given away.

But that doesnt mean many others wont buy.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by tony404

the answer will be to lock it down so they cant get it for free.

Here's the problem with that and why DRM is largely a failure for anything other than pay per minute.... You're doing exactly what I said. Your spending time money and effort to fight the community who isn't going to pay for it anyway. At the same time, you annoy the hell out of your paying customers.

Now in reality I'm sure that's not the case. My real point is there's a fine line to be walked that provides reasonable security and action against those who infringe upon your copyrights, but stops short of inconveniencing the paying customer.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Here's the problem with that and why DRM is largely a failure for anything other than pay per minute.... You're doing exactly what I said. Your spending time money and effort to fight the community who isn't going to pay for it anyway. At the same time, you annoy the hell out of your paying customers.

Now in reality I'm sure that's not the case. My real point is there's a fine line to be walked that provides reasonable security and action against those who infringe upon your copyrights, but stops short of inconveniencing the paying customer.

you are right i just get pissed off.