Any predictions for 2009?

[Toby]

Originally Posted by tony404

Considering there isnt a legal tube that makes any real money...

Not a one? Are you sure?

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Toby

Not a one? Are you sure?

I am sure there are some legal tube sites that are making money, but to some extent their success may be artificial. Example, if you ran 5 bigger traffic TGPs and filtered off 10% of the traffic from each one through various means, you could have a tube site that gets a bunch of traffic. Structured correctly, that traffic would in theory convert likely as well as normal TGP traffic, maybe a little bit better because you can control what they see.

But if you look at pretty much every tube site, they are dependant to a huge degree on non-porn sales, upsales, and other techniques to make money, because they aren't very good methods to sell actual porn. Any method that might get used to filter down the traffic (such as limiting views per user, or through various mousetrapping methods) kills what the viewer would expect in a tube site, and therefore would limit traffic growth.

Tube sites face that simple problem (that TGPs faced originally) which is that you put too much free porn in a format that is too easy for the users to find, enjoy, and ultimately finish the task at hand with. There is no way you are selling porn to a guy that has already used the kleenex box. It's exponentially worse with a tube site, because you are not only presenting links to galleries (usually sponsor hosted) but you are now also having to host the videos, which incurs potentially significant costs on all those non-buyers.

So who do you think in the tube world is actually making money (and by making money, I mean getting more than 10% return on costs)?

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I am sure there are some legal tube sites that are making money, but to some extent their success may be artificial. Example, if you ran 5 bigger traffic TGPs and filtered off 10% of the traffic from each one through various means, you could have a tube site that gets a bunch of traffic. Structured correctly, that traffic would in theory convert likely as well as normal TGP traffic, maybe a little bit better because you can control what they see.

But if you look at pretty much every tube site, they are dependant to a huge degree on non-porn sales, upsales, and other techniques to make money, because they aren't very good methods to sell actual porn. Any method that might get used to filter down the traffic (such as limiting views per user, or through various mousetrapping methods) kills what the viewer would expect in a tube site, and therefore would limit traffic growth.

Tube sites face that simple problem (that TGPs faced originally) which is that you put too much free porn in a format that is too easy for the users to find, enjoy, and ultimately finish the task at hand with. There is no way you are selling porn to a guy that has already used the kleenex box. It's exponentially worse with a tube site, because you are not only presenting links to galleries (usually sponsor hosted) but you are now also having to host the videos, which incurs potentially significant costs on all those non-buyers.

So who do you think in the tube world is actually making money (and by making money, I mean getting more than 10% return on costs)?

Why not just swap out those TGPs to become a tube site?

The presentation is simple as they do for Hollywood.
Think of your hotel spanktravision....they show you a clip over for several movies and you can pick up the remote and order it right then.

Why not have a tube site that does the very same thing?

[tony404]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Why not just swap out those TGPs to become a tube site?

The presentation is simple as they do for Hollywood.
Think of your hotel spanktravision....they show you a clip over for several movies and you can pick up the remote and order it right then.

Why not have a tube site that does the very same thing?

I think its because tubes have become a word synonymous with free stuff from youtube(who still hasnt made a proft) to hulu to youporn to redtube to tube8.I think people have been trained so when they hear tube they think free. I think that's why the legal ones dont grow because the surfer sees its all short clips and they go to the next ones giving them the free scenes they want. I also think the older crowd goes to tgps and they still spend money'

[Toby]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

So who do you think in the tube world is actually making money (and by making money, I mean getting more than 10% return on costs)?

I'm not really sure that anyone is, or isn't, making money with a legal tube site.

I've read a number of claims that xtube does well, but with nothing to back up those claims.

The point of my reply to Tony was that there's no one in a position to know for sure that none are making money.

[gonzo]

Ill also add this.
Tube sites arent a bad thing.
Cross sales arent a bad thing.
Popups werent a bad thing.
Blind links werent a bad thing.


What happened was that in the case of some of the earlier techniques you saw them misused and the effectiveness reduced.

Remember just a few years ago where the trend was for the pay site owner to spend on the upwards of 10K for a smashing tour but when you got inside it was one huge content repository?

Surfer got wise...funny thing is some of the same people that were doing that are now guilty of the misuse of precheck cross sales.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Ill also add this.
Tube sites arent a bad thing.
Cross sales arent a bad thing.
Popups werent a bad thing.
Blind links werent a bad thing.


What happened was that in the case of some of the earlier techniques you saw them misused and the effectiveness reduced.

Remember just a few years ago where the trend was for the pay site owner to spend on the upwards of 10K for a smashing tour but when you got inside it was one huge content repository?

Surfer got wise...funny thing is some of the same people that were doing that are now guilty of the misuse of precheck cross sales.

Another great post.

The problem has been the same for years. The value people put on getting surfers to the site and the value put on members areas. Sites will spend $100,000 to get people to a site and $10,000 on what's inside the site. In the first year. In the second year they spend another $100,000 outside the members are and $5,000 inside.

And then they blame others for the members turning their backs on buying.

And think the answer is to spend $110,000 on getting more people to the site.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by Toby

I'm not really sure that anyone is, or isn't, making money with a legal tube site.

I've read a number of claims that xtube does well, but with nothing to back up those claims.

The point of my reply to Tony was that there's no one in a position to know for sure that none are making money.

XXXjay stated no matter what he did, it was very hard to get snizzshare's(a legal tube) traffic base to grow. I also submit to a few legal tubes their traffic is nowhere close to the illegal ones.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by tony404

I also submit to a few legal tubes their traffic is nowhere close to the illegal ones.

Of course they don't, but traffic volume is irrelevant if you can't convert the traffic.

I think we'll see some different things done with legal tubes, rather than just trying to follow the high volume plan of illegal tubes. I have a couple of ideas. I'll get back to you later this year.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by tony404

XXXjay stated no matter what he did, it was very hard to get snizzshare's(a legal tube) traffic base to grow. I also submit to a few legal tubes their traffic is nowhere close to the illegal ones.

Watch what Im telling you. With AFF not buying up ad space the illegal ones will find themselves in a position to monitize and Im not so sure someone isnt just going to come out and start legal proceedings.

Its a recession and stranger things have happened.

Its a tough nut to crack if you werent first to market. Maybe Jay just doesnt think out of the box enough?

Ill make this statement... I will have all of my TGP and MGPs converted over to legal tubes before Feburary.