we are NOT after revenge like school bullies
we are after winnıng the fucking WAR
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

How do you win a war against an enemy who on a bright sunny Tuesday morning will hijack and crash commercial airliners into skyscrapers full of civilians and the damn Pentagon and had their sights on the White House and Air Force One?

You can't win a war when the other side is playing by different rules, that has been proved.

Ok let's be patient, gather up all the information we can, find out who all the bad guys are(impossible)
and then invite them to an old fashioned ground and air war where we will lose hundreds of thousands of lives.........ok they surrender HIP HIP HOORAY........then we go back to our lives and months later on another bright and sunny Tuesday morning...............

hopeless. I'm really discouraged by the naivete I'm hearing from everywhere.
I'm not internationl relations expert, I have no idea if opening up a can of nuclear whoop ass might wind up destroying us but I sure as hell know what the future is for all the free world if we deal with these people as we have in the past including the Gulf War where we let that asshole Hussein live.........and I have no doubt he in some way helped unleash the carnage upon New York City.

arggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
mutt

Forest
now fuckers sit and wait what our response would be

i m sure they would rasther have us bomb some fucking desert tomorrow

İ am positive that when we response
THAT responce will send the REAL message

waitıng for axe is worth than falling axe
Serge from Turke

rushing doesn,t help in military decisions

________________________

That is the truth!!!!
Forest

also...talking about İslam...
Turkey is 98% İslam and...USA doesn,t have any stronger alıe in this part of the world where it really matters
Serge from Turke

Grımm i am wıth Melody

we bombed Afganistan after embassy bombıngs ın afrıca
did it help much?

İ say lets gather ALL info and strike ın the,ir hearts

the more İNFO we have
the more severe blow we,ll make

should we bomb Florıda just because terrorısts wrent to avıatıon school there

also...
who do you think this Taliban is????

isn,t it our ,friends, mujadjedins we helped and armed agaist russians?

rushing doesn,t help in military decisions

we are NOT after revenge like school bullies
we are after winnıng the fucking WAR
Serge from Turke

This isnt just america...

possibbly 500 british citizens were in the wtc

To our Brothers in the UK

We are with you
Forest

Where was the ghost of Mussolini?

Let me say that I fully support whatever decisions our president makes, but I was a little disappointed in his address to the nation. The CONTENT of the speech was fine; but there was no fire. There was no passion behind his words. I wanted to see heat. I wanted to see anger. I wanted to see the ghost of Benito Mussolini banging his shoe on the podium and yelling, "WE WILL BURY YOU!"

Instead, we got the same eyebrows-up, squinty-eyed reading-from-the-laundry-list type of speech that we usually get.

We haven't had a president since, oh, I dunno, Eisenhower or Roosevelt - maybe even Teddy Roosevelt - that delivered fire and brimstone from behind the podium. I think we need to see that again. Now's a good time for it.

Just my $0.02.

Now returning to "silent" mode.
Silent Bob

http://www.webbildr.com/nostra.html
Forest

what happened to this guy

______________________________

grimm,

he went from a Soldier to a Politician....

Worlds apart in how you address issuses
Forest

Anyone read this yet?

http://www.ict.org.il/spotlight/det.cfm?id=667


Red

Mutt

Ronald Reagan has a a sign on his wall that says "First Pajama Pants, THEN slippers.

i dont think we want him


Colin Powell used to be this tremendous badass.


I understand the need for a movement against terrorism, but a US strike is necessary, they kicked our asses, now lets kick there, let the accords be worked out afterwards. W should be bombing afghanistan right now.


grimm Xingster

mutt, it's NOT about Islam...Islam is an Abrahamic religion, just like Judaism and Christanity. Islam is the religion. Muslim/Moslem is the adherent. Idiots can interpret the Quran, just as idiots can interpret Christian texts. Do those abortion clinic bombers and doctor-murderers represent the "average" Christian?

This isn't about "liberal" or "conservative", this is about looking at the matter dispassionately and clearly.

Now that I'm done running my mouth for the day, I'm off to try to work, though it don't come easy of late.

melody Leonard Pitts, Jr's very eloquent column from yesterday

Hooper: million bajillion ? LOL

xeagle: Thanks for that Sinclair post. It was posted by Grimm yesterday and then I read up on it some. It's a true article, written originally in 1973 by Gordon Sinclair and aired on a Canadian radio show. Since that time, the wording of it has been spiced up somewhat to make it a better read.. (eg: the "wear it proudly" part at the end was never in the original).

Kinda makes you think how a good story gets enhanced and romanticized over time. The bible is full of good stories, isn't it?


Evil Chris Reelporn Free - The September Issue

I agree with Grimm. What happened to American politicians? All this deferring to NATO countries ....listen I don't give a rat's ass if you had a phone discussion with the Prime Minister of Canada or the Duke of England.....YOU ARE THE BADDEST ASSES ON THE PLANET........NOW ACT LIKE IT! OR WE ARE DOOMED.
The world needs a superpower. Get McCain in there........we need a hothead........get Reagan out of his pajamas......
the world is watching this......most of all the bad guys.

Hey i want peace, i'm a liberal but the time has come.
mutt

hey three people this morning have posted the text to Gordon Sinclair's tribute to America.

Click http://www.opranoplus.com and hear it in the man's own voice.

I feel like my mother right now 'Why do I bother?' LOL
mutt

Melody, u got my message wrong. It is about Islam. And it has nothing to do with the religion. It's what the religion does to these people and how they pervert it to fit their political purposes. In the same way a member of the Ku Klux Klan uses the Bible as proof that the black man is not human, a beast.
They are using their religion.
There are millions of good Muslims of course.


mutt

board is like 5000 million bajillion miles wide in netscape.
Hooper

does anyone else share the opinion with me that Colin Powell came off as a wuss last night?

what happened to this guy

I've seen more balls at a NOW meeting. he is a politician now. danccing around questions.

i was counting on him for some decisive answers on foreign policy, not hand holding.
grimm Xingster

This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.

America: The Good Neighbor.
Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a
Canadian television Commentator. What follows is the full text of
his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:


"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as
the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all
the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy
were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts.
None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and
their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes.
Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now
newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times - and safely home again. You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to
look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most
of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting
American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.
I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was
outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."
Stand proud, America! Wear it proudly!!

xeagle Internet Porn Dialer

watch out for this scam

http://www.msnbc.com/news/628230.asp
grimm Xingster

cj, you rock, hon. As always.

mutt, this is not about islam. my husband and i have good friends who are muslim, and their eldest son went up yesterday to try to enlist in the military. i refuse to connect this insanity to the palestinian people (they had a few thousand loud-mouths cheering, just as we have as many in proportion...anyone remember schwartzkopf dancing with mickey mouse?). bin laden and his ilk use that as a threadbare excuse for their wish to terrorize people and murder innocents. however, yeah, you betcha, if any country is involved, they should be on our list of invitations to the dance.

but i can't blame ya for being enraged. i was having quite a few "fry them and let god sort it out" feelings last night, too. anger is a healthy thing - i think we're going to see a lot more of it, as you noted, in days to come.

btw, they're playing the US National Anthem during the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace. if that doesn't underscore a serious tightening up of the western allies, nothing does (not that we needed that much tightening up with the UK and the commonwealth, but still).

btw2, our good northern neighbors have housed and cared for thousands of stranded US and international passengers.

as i told geeky yesterday, who in the world would be all that shocked if it did turn out to be iraq who financed it? iraq not only wanted to even a score with the US, the attack also very specifically went after bush. hussein has always despised george bush most specifically. getting his son would have been almost as good.

i recommend you read the leonard pitts piece -- boy, did he hit the nail on the head.


melody Leonard Pitts, Jr's very eloquent column from yesterday

or.... someone is trying to setup someone else...

That seems evident.

Evil Chris

This may be a big break.

*******************

This information was left all over intentionally. There's no way that people with ties to Bin Laden took at least a year of flight training, yet remained under the government radar, and they couldn't continue to hide it. Plane tickets bought at the last minute for one way flights, in the terrorist's names, flight manuals "left" in rental cars (also rented in the terrorist's names), etc. It's being waved in our faces. People asked why no one claimed responsibility after the bombing - they HAVE, just in a clever way. They're drawing a line in the sand and daring us to cross it.


Peaches

mutt

i heard somethign about that on talk radio

they have bin laden under house arrest like i have madonna in my basement
grimm Xingster

Drudge reporting Bin Laden under house arrest in Afghanistan. Whoop dee damn doo. Oh so they knew just where to find him. Sorry Mr. Afghanistan too late, thanks for playing our game we have years supply of Turtle Wax for you and a one way trip to OBLIVION!!!! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!
mutt

After reading this sports columinst's article this morning I think I have changed my mind if the NFL should play Sunday.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/cst-spt-jay13.html
tuffruff The Industry News

I hope all the calm and reserve I'm seeing from the Administration is a case of still waters running deep.

IT'S TIME TO ROCK AND ROLL JUNIOR! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM...........BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.............BYE BYE AFGHANISTAN......BOOOOOOM BOOOOOOOOOM.........SAYANORA SYRIA.......


mutt

Garnet "Ace" Bailey

http://www.jwen.com/hock/bruins/gbail.html

Evil Chris

The Mayor of NY just requested 6000 body bags from the US government.

____________________________________

That number is now 11,000

=(((((

Forest

Wow..CNN is saying they just caught one of the guys down in Florida who was involved and trained at the flight school and lived with the hijackers. The guy is Saudi. They say he is cooperating fully with authorities. This may be a big break.
Zebra

Forest,

That is really spooky
SusieS

http://www.123designs.com/usa.txt

interesting reading
Forest

http://staff.tribalwar.com/rayn/images/wtfisthat.jpg

anyone seen this?
Forest

Just found out one of my girls Father was on the american flight that went into building 1

April I am Sooooo Sorry yfor your loss

god this is still unbelievable
Forest

and #18264
Heads-up

You guys running this board should alter post #18183 it making the board scroll side ways...
Heads-up

wow, this is interesting

http://www.ammocity.com/twintowers/coup.jpg
This picture of WTC blowing up was produced few months ago. Almost identical to what we saw on TV.

here is the full story behind it http://www.ammocity.com/ammo/get_article.php

Slavdogg

Good points CJ. They must have intended to attack many countries.

"I think that's a pretty major turning point for our planet"

I get that feeling too. The heat is gonna be turned up. The days of jabbing are going to turn into knock out punches now.

I hear the miltary is preparing ground troups...
Catman

Is there any verification regarding the Israeli intelligence linking IRAQ to the attacks ?


Brujah expired domains and promotion secrets

They picked the wrong building. Many countries had offices there. They're now despised [and hunted] by most of the civilized world.

They attacked the world not just the U.S.
Catman
---

Catman, as far as the terrorists are concerned, they got the right building. they did that on purpose. almost every country in the world had employees in that building, and most countries had branches of major companies in that building. the terrorists may have physically attacked a building in the united states, but they were trying to ensure every democratic country was involved.

our reports here in australia are that 3 australians are confirmed dead, and 80 are missing who worked in the building. when you consider we are just a tiny country with a tiny population, that is a major amount of people.

i could not imagine any attack that could've affected a planet as much as this one did.

if its possible that any good could come of this situation, i see it in the unity of all democratic nations. every president, prime minister and country leader has expressed their 100% support of the american government and any action that may be taken. i think that's a pretty major turning point for our planet.

I was out driving today (with my lights on), and about every 10th car was driving with its lights on as a sign of respect for those lives which have been lost. considering we are on the opposite side of the world, i think that shows a lot about the current unity of the free world.

cj (nipple pink 'vaginator')

A follow up concerning some of the posts about gas prices yesterday and my post stating what a few of the local stations here in Central Il. were doing with prices raising to the $4-5 range.
http://www.pjstar.com/news/topnews/g46227a.html
tuffruff The Industry News

They picked the wrong building. Many countries had offices there. They're now despised [and hunted] by most of the civilized world.

They attacked the world not just the U.S.
Catman

50 Canadians confirmed dead at the WTC. The estimate is 500. New York and Toronto are linked in a major way as financial centers of each respective country. Back and forth people go everyday between head offices of pretty much every major US corporation.

I doubt 500 Canadians have been killed at one time since World War 11.


mutt

That Oprano Plus is a good looking page with lots of good news. Congrats to those who set it up. Just listened Mutt. Thanks for posting that. I had heard that and it is so true. Good to here it again.

The night before the tragedy [the 10th] watched a special on WWII on the HIST channel. Tough to see fellows now in their 80's with tears after all these years. Even more sad for these older fellows is the countries who would be speaking German or Japanese today if it wasn't for the USA [and other countries] and yet couldn't care less about the efforts made way back then.

Was thinking that after watching that Documentary and then a day later this happens.

So much could be said but it is comforting to hear the response of support by so many other countries the last few days.
Catman

I've been looking for these pics all day - thought some might like to see a few of them.

http://www.cyberspasm.com/stuff/wtc/

there's one with lady liberty and the towers in the distance, and another with the american flag and the towers in the background - all shot on a beautiful fall day 2 years ago next month. I love the shot of liberty holding her torch to the sky with the towers looking on.

cj (nipple pink 'vaginator')

Please click on http://www.opranoplus.com and take a moment and listen to Gordon Sinclair's The Americans. Still rings true after almost 30 since it was recorded. Page is loading slow, sorry bout that but the news java ticker and the Moreover code is too much. Will be gone soon.


mutt Click here for one sweet old Canadian bastard's opinon!

I don't know how i feel about the NFL playing this weekend. Since they only play once a week it's their only chance really to express their grief. Many players don't want to play, Vinny Testaverde the most public, the head of their Players Association Gene Upshaw doesn't want to play the games.
Testaverde seems more worried about his own safety. He's said if they do play the games then the owners should travel with the team.


mutt

Wanted to point out the message was the actual message of the woman in tears being played in full while the boyfriend listens and stares in horror at his answering machine.

It leaves you numb. And it makes you more and more angry.

Catman

This is going back a bit but does anyone remeber The NHL all star game played on a Saturday just following the original attack on Baghdad at the begining of the Gulf War? It was held at the old Stadium in Chicago. The National Anthem brought chills up my spine. American flags flooded the audience and the anthem was sung aloud like I have never heard it by everyone in the crowd. One of the most amazing things I can ever remember.I can remeber the tv announcers pratcically weepeing and unable to talk imediatly following it.
Play the games this weekend. Baseball included which looks like they may start Friday anyway. I would love to see a scene like that carried out again nation wide and for the world to see.
And on a side note I just saw on the news 4:30 am that they suspect up to 50 terrosists involved from withen the country now and a partial reason for not restoring flights could be due to trying to not give these people as some are still at large a chance to move around or possibbly escape the country.
tuffruff The Industry News

Grimm, Yep exactly. I think shock is gonna turn to anger.

Stories like those calling loved ones in tears to say goodbye before they died... it doesnt get much worse than that.

Just what I see. Just reporting what I see. What I feel is happening in the USA.
Catman

Catman

you know what i saty to that

"cry havoc! and loose the dogs of war"


the mroe i watch, the mroe pissed off i get. I am sure this extends to every member of government and the armed forces.


grimm Xingster

The pain is sadly just beginning for the American public. Hearing the stories such as the woman I just heard on MSNBC who had left a message in tears to her boyfriend from one of the floors above the impact floors. She has not been heard from since. This is gonna get very painful. So much bigger than can be comprehended. So much more overwhelming than anyone now realizes.

The folks who are behind this ... all I can say is it won't be pretty. The American people have been angry since the beginning. After the next few days of seeing the horrible stories they are gonna be out for serious blood. JMHO.

This whole thing is just so terrible.

Just heard on MSNBC that in congress the talk of war is beginning and growing momentum. You can only poke a tiger so much before it turns and chews you up.

They may have poked the tiget too hard this time. Get the uneasy feeling that the retrobution is gonna be monumental. The tiger appears to no longer be sleeping. It is getting to it's feet and looking around.

This is serious stuff.
Catman

mutt

they should play, i think america needs a diversion.

and clayton writes they should lift all blackouts, so people who feel unsavfee goign to the games can watch


Also steve young made a good point on sportscenter last night

Make the games free, or better yet, donate all ticket sales to the red cross for sundays games.

grimm Xingster

mutt

playing NFL games good for the country?

http://www.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/clayton_john/1250990.html
grimm Xingster

they now know the name of some of the hijackers

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/12/investigation.terrorism/

all with ties to bin laden.
grimm Xingster

I don't think the NFL is going to play this weekend. I keep hearing that Pete Rozelle always regretted playing games the Sunday following the assasination of John F Kennedy.


mutt

Please let it be Iraq. So we can do what should have been done a decade ago, bring back Hussein to American soil and take him apart limb by limb alive.

I've listened all day long to Muslim types who are pleading for people to understand that these acts are the acts of a small group of lunatic fringe whackos. BULLSHIT! They even tried that stupid logic somebody here used yesterday about would you launch an attack on all of Oklahoma or wherever Tim McVeigh and his group were from after the OKC bombing.
Get it through your heads, these countries DESPISE America, there is no pleasing them nor should there be, they are all in cahoots with these whacko terrorist groups. Big fucking joke. And what's it all about? Israel and America's support of her. A piece of garbage parcel of land in the middle of a godforsaken desert that nobody cared about that the Jews reclaimed as their homeland after suffering the loss of 6 million exterminated like rats by Hitler.
They turned that piece of shit parcel of land into something through hard work and nothing less.
These Muslims hate the Jews, that's all this is about, HATE. America has stood behind Israel forever and always will. I've been sickened by the apologists for the Muslims and Arabs the last few days on and off the Net looking for pity for the Palestinians and trying to make America look like the bad guy using examples from Cuba to Vietnam about the evil greedy nature of America.
MORE BULLSHIT! THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANYTHING IN ISRAEL FOR AMERICA, NO OIL, NO MONEY, NO NOTHING.....JUST THE PRINCIPLES OF FREEDOM, JUSTICE AND DEMORCRACY.

Reckoning day is nigh. No more hiding behind the terroists.
mutt

Israeli intelligence:
Iraq financed attacks

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html

Iraqi TV....



Marty

http://paydirect.yahoo.com/PD/onePage/onePageRedCrossMoney-drv.pd/

is anyone else reloading this page and watching the numbers grow? I am and it's a beautiful thing...I saw one leap that went up $2000....
SykkBoy

Funny in that interview with Bin Lauden how he mentions the oppression of the Palestianins. If the other Arabic countries are so concerned about the Palestinians, then why haven't any of these countries welcomed them inside their borders?

Pretty simple: if they did there would be no pawn to use in their twisted political/terrositic causes. If there was ever an example to be made of hypocrisy, this dude just provided it..
Shawn

The Gordon Sinclair recording became a huge NOrth AMerican hit record back when I was a kid. I forgot which national tragedy had just hit the USA. Sinclair was an old curmudgeonly old school radio newsman, Paul Harveyish sorta, who wrote that as a news commentary. Somebody, not him, decided to set it to music and radio stations began playing it all over North America.

Sinclair died bout 10 years ago. The other notable thing about Sinc was that he had one of the world's most incredible comb overs.........i swear there was one hair on the top of his head, it must have stretched from one coast to the other and he wrapped it around and around and around..........
mutt

"We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.

Almighty God said: "O ye who believe, give your response to God and His Apostle, when He calleth you to that which will give you life. And know that God cometh between a man and his heart, and that it is He to whom ye shall all be gathered."

Almighty God also says: "O ye who believe, what is the matter with you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of God, ye cling so heavily to the earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For God hath power over all things."


More from Bin Laden same issued fatwa

Vick

Something I knew but never expected to take place in the USA (stupid me)

In 1998 Bin Laden issued following fatwa to all Muslims:


The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it


Vick

sorry guys, didn't know the link to that had been posted

Trying to keep up with the reading - but between watching news, trying to keep life normal for the kiddos and reading news stories, I know I'm missin a bunch....


Snoops (Ğ)

Grimm,
Thanks for the bio post

Also suggest reading
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html

And much linked from
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/

To know our enemy


Vick

And I'm so stupid I put in the wrong url. Sorry. It's corrected.
heather A member sent this to me.

Ok, now I'm bawling again.
heather A member sent this to me.

My ex brother-in-law just sent me this:

This, from a Canadian newspaper, no less, is worth sharing.

America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given
recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from a
Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
commentator. What follows is the full text of his
trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional
Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the
Americans as the most generous and possibly the least
appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and
Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the
Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these
countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it
was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward
was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of
Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United
States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
American communities were flattened by tornadoes.
Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now
newspapers in those countries are writing about the
decadent, warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that is
gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar
build its own airplane. Does any other country in the
world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the
Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why
don't they fly them? Why do all the International
lines except Russia fly American Planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting
a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese
technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German
technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about
American technocracy, and you find men on the moon -
not once, but several times and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs
right in the store window for everybody to look at.
Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.
They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless
they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American
dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were
breaking down through age, it was the Americans who
rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the
New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an
old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to
the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me
even one time when someone else raced to the Americans
in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even
during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
kicked around. They will come out of this thing with
their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled
to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating
over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one
of those."

Stand proud, America!


Not trying to make a political statement - just thought this was interesting to read :)
Snoops (Ğ)

After that story, I am at a loss...
geeky

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/12/plane.phone.call/

THis is the best story I have read so far.....
Mike AI

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1540000/1540957.stm

a bit better news from the Asian markets
geeky

this is sick

Hip-Hop Group Yanks Album Cover Depicting WTC Blast

http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20010912/wr/attack_album_dc_1.html

Marty

Indeed Geeky, KC, Makes one very proud of these guys.

Babara Olson who called her husband from Flight 11 [I believe the first one to go in], remember her well from the Florida election coverage. Couldnt place here name at first till I seen her pic on TV. Then remebered her level headed and good natured demeaner from the election.

The pic of the second plane gliding in will forever be ecthed in my mind. Just crazy.

Catman

bio on bin laden


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/bio.html
grimm Xingster

http://www.visionxtreme.net/images/unclesam.jpg
grimm Xingster

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/northern_ireland/newsid_1540000/1540529.stm

check out that link... it is so sad... and ironic
geeky

i read/heard the same things about the flight that crashed in penn

they were heroes and died as heroes.. saved the lives of who knows how many
grimm Xingster

Yeah the cell phone has proven what a part of our society it is... and a very important one too. The calls from the rubble were amazing, and the calls from the plane, well, apart from the valuable info about the terrorists, I am glad that some people were able to say "I love you" one last time.
geeky

Wow Ulfie that is a good story... These guys are heros, and should be praised for it. I see a movie based on it...


Mike AI

thbat shoudl read to support the RELIEF MOVEMENT


its been a long long fucking day
grimm Xingster

Intersting Ulfie.

The role the cell phone is playing in all this..

So sad for family members talking to loved ones in such a terrible situation. And folks calling from under the rubble. But all in all the cell phone saved lives.
Catman

http://www.nofreeporn.com/donation.html

Is now running over the top of all xingster and fsn html pages

I encourage other free hosts to do the same, together we can raise millions to support the free host movement

We did it, now you do. This is a call to arms for all Free Host Operators.

grimm Xingster

Catman,

yeah like i posted earlier, they were real heroes. They even knew they might be doomed, but went for it anyway. We might never really know how much they did for their country.
geeky

One other thing I just saw...

It looks like the guys that got their flight training in FL. did so at FlightSafety International. Ironically FlightSaftey is owned by Birkshire Hathaway.

Depending on how everything plays out, Birkshire Hathaway's Insurance claims could be approachine $10B.

I just found that to be ironic...

KC

Catman, Mike...

One of the passengers that called his wife several times (that was on the plane that crashed in PA).. has been interviewed several times on the radio and on TV. It sounds like the guy really is a hero. He may have gotten several other passengers to rise up and take on the hijackers. His wife told him about the 1st plane crashing into the WTC. It turns out this guys is from San Ramon, CA. My home town, I was born and raised there... If this whole thing turns out to be true, I'm honored to be from the same city as him.

KC

Me too Mike. Find myself dwelling on that point. Seems like the only hope the passengers had. Like to think I could rush some guy with a knife and making a bomb threat but without some specific knowledge that you were definitely in immenent danger a person would prob stay in their seat not wanting to jeopardize other passengers. But in retrospect that was there only chance.
Catman

There was a story on the local news here that family members had informed several of the passengers on that flight of what had happened at the wtc. The male passengers then took a vote and decided to rush the hijackers. If true, this is heroism in its' truist form.

Ulfie

Catman good points!!

I been having the same feeling about the plane in Pittsburg... One reason I keep looking for more information...


Mike AI

Some interesting points. Couple comments..

Suspected even yesterday that the reason the plane that circled Cleveland and then headed back East and crashed in Pennsylvania was due to passengers rising up. See that Mike already had a link to the story. Had heard nothing on TV. But on local radio a local congressman said that this Burnett was a local guy, a burly football player and had also called family to tell them that himself and 2 other guys were gonna rush the terrorists. No doubt that is why it crashed early. They are indeed heros. Perhaps they had heard on a radio or such what had already happened in NY and knew that was gonna be their fate too. Especially when it had come way around Cleveland and was heading for the DC area. Would think some passenger would have a portable radio and the word was out.

Am so glad that they were able to divert the plane and break up these coward's plan. Too bad they coudn't keep it in the air.

Things prob happened too fast for the guys in the first two planes that went into the Trade Centers to make a move and they of course were prob just hoping for the best which is human nature when you don't know what is up. Those planes had just left Boston and couldnt of been in the air for long. But the old survival belief of never letting a "kidnapper" take you to a seconday location turned out to be the case here. So sad to see them in the second plane as sitting ducks going in. Too bad someone couldn't of made a move on them. But I'm sure it all happened too fast.

Good points on keeping them out of the cockpit. Seems that is the critical thing in these kind of takeovers. Knockout gas seems like a good idea for drastic measures. Not opening the cockpit door for nothing seems like a critical point. Perhaps some kind of auto pilot system that could take over if the pilot did not regularily enter some kind of password or hit a hot button or such might work too. Some new systems need to be implimented as turning these planes into missiles seems just too easy

Can't think of any time in history when so many people died at the same time... Very shocking to the senses. Hard to believe.

Best wishes for more survivors under the rubble.
Catman

http://au.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/20010913/aapworld/1000336445-1141825578.html

INteresting story, wonder if it is accurate.
Mike AI

Bomb threat over at a empire state building and penn station,

was false
SusieS

SykkBoy,

That's right, the first news out of Vegas was that they had shut down all tours to the Hoover Dam, and secured all entry to it, etc. etc..

Something else that's interesting, Control of the WTC just passed 7 weeks ago to a real estate firm:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/BUSINESS/asia/09/12/aust.westfield.biz/index.html


KoKo

penn station evec'd also
SusieS

Some idiot in dallas decided to fly his small private plane, he was forced to land by 2 f-16's.
Brad Shaw

They found a suspicous package at the Empire State Building and a bomb sniffing dog alerted to it. If it does turn out to be a bomb, thank god there is very few people there now.
Stallion Donating All Profits For 9/14 To Red Cross

they just evacuated the Empire State Building!..

MrCash

Evening all,

I am proud to announce that I have just been informed that Domain Name Systems will be donating all profits made from Domain Name sales on Friday Sept 14th, plus we will be adding a matching donation that will be made to the American Red Cross.


Stallion Donating All Profits For 9/14 To Red Cross

Webfather, agreed, the next couple of days are going to be a little bit weird. I am in the middle of a trip myself, and I don't look forward to having to deal withe the airports any time soon.

Anyone going or coming from the East coast are going to have a very hard time.

Hopefully, everyone will get to where they are going and things will start getting back to normal as soon as possible.

Alex
RawAlex submit a site... :-)

I think Fay has the right idea - stick out your chin and get back to it.
***********************************

I think you misinterpret my words. I just think TOMORROW is probably the worst travel day EVER. There are people still on planes for 36 hours from what I hear. Things are backed up and I just hate her to be one of those folks.

I wish her the best....in her "Adventure."

Webfather

Fay, from what I've heard, "normal" flying won't be for a week or so. You figure there are usually tens of thousands of flights a day across the US. Airports have been 100% closed for 2 full days now. Just getting the "catch up" flights is going to take days with the added security. My brother and SIL are "stuck" in the Virgin Islands - like I told him, it's better to be stuck THERE than stuck HERE wasting vacation time trying to get there ;)

Seriously, go through the steps of taking your flight if you have some time to kill, but if it were me, I wouldn't make any concrete plans based on you getting there any time soon.
Peaches