Oprano Webmaster Forum

if serge thinks it is a well designed page, it must be;)
grimm
**********

Grimm, if I can't do shit to save myself,
it doesn't mean I can't judge others, ask around
;-)))

Mutt, Red,
fuck it!

Go ahead and make his day!
;-))

Serge (EVERY top 10 pay sites accept checks....WHY?) Mel and HER baby!

serge..i have a pretty good idea.
grimm FSN

Serge, I do not believe it is shaving in most cases. There are still a few good programs out there that do not mess with things.

I think it is more of a sign of the times, with CC processors scrubbing and surfers getting smarter.

Brad Shaw Deep Oral Girls

john@cotac.com

still?
grimm FSN

serge...ill provide the person to reset MK Stats, f you want to go into business:) assuming i am on that list;)

HAHAHAHA! indeed:)
grimm
***********

Grimm,
seriously,
I DON'T WANNA GET BACK,
enough is enough,
I paid my dues.

but.....drop John e-mail,
some familiar faces call him from time to time and ask for traffic availability.

You can either do it or figure out yourself who this is.

Small clue-
AND I WON'T GIVE ANY OTHER
you haven't seen them for a while but you know them.
;-))]

Serge (EVERY top 10 pay sites accept checks....WHY?) Mel and HER baby!

Serge -

It was the most difficult thing I have ever done. I was up all night the first night with her crying and such. However, she is my favorite.
Tonda Needs Feeds? One week free no bs!

if serge thinks it is a well designed page, it must be;)
grimm FSN

Grimm

MikeW turned me on to these guys they have some very nice content.

http://www.g-stringphotos.com

MelissaD (Nobody is better than me!) <---- In case you need proof

http://www.cyberspasm.com/

I like it!

crisp, easy to follow layout,
no bullshit admittance on front page that stats previously posted could have been sckewed,

good job!
Serge (EVERY top 10 pay sites accept checks....WHY?) Mel and HER baby!

serge...ill provide the person to reset MK Stats, f you want to go into business:) assuming i am on that list;)

HAHAHAHA! indeed:)
grimm FSN

I figured since the movie AI sucked so bad, the little dude was desperate so turned to a world of lapdances and playahs and the real reason he couldn't go to Miami was because he couldn't see over the airline ticket counter....
SykkBoy how many times must a man look up until he just doesn't see
Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:11:29 - IP: 216.67.207.69 - Post # 13560
-------------------------

Sykk,

You are one of the LAST people i would go to for a movie review given your taste is movies!!

:-)

TheEnforcer Shouldn't you be Making Bank?

Grimm contact me
Tonda Needs Feeds? One week free no bs!

serge..i know you are correct, the per click was high with you. when are you coming back?;) haha

grimm
*********

NEVER!

but if I was - I'd know whom to call, all 10 of them, to get 1,500,000 clicks a day back
;-))

actually,
anybody here knows how to reset MK's?
;-))

hahahhahahah, naaaaahhhhh....

Serge (EVERY top 10 pay sites accept checks....WHY?)

I need to buy some content.

I need some nice images, girl on girl or softcore, to use in advertisements.

who provides a small image pack i could buy?
grimm FSN

i think shaving has little or nothing to do with it anymore. the higher the price per click, the more shaving, the lower, the more honest.

grimm FSN

Go to lunch with the paramedic/fireman and the board explodes!!

Confucy I'm impressed first time you have asked an interesting question that I actually want to know the answer to.

JoeE cute picture!

Is anybody going to give me some feedback on the design, layout and content of www.cyberspasm.com? I usually get decent conversation around here on oprano.
MelissaD (Nobody is better than me!) <---- In case you need proof

He is a really nice guy in person.
Hooper
************

yeap!
Serge Brad, good work!

serge..i know you are correct, the per click was high with you. when are you coming back?;) haha

grimm FSN

Tonda, well done!

was it painful, the child birth?
Serge Brad, good work!

but that would involve complete honesty and disclosure.:)
grimm
***********

You want real numbers?

you want real trends????

How about this:
2 years ago, EXACTLY 2 years ago, AGA made a test how much he can get per RAW click and...
he was getting the most with
Serge'sCash with it's turned off MK's stats
3.2 cent per RAW.

Today, when SergesCash and all the shaving is gone
maximumwhat he can get per RAW clikc is...
1 cent

If this trend contuniues and LESS shaving exist in the industry-
the $ one can get per click will be...
.3cents per RAW click
2 years from now.

AGA can be reached via:
http://www.netpond.com/msgboard/
or
AGA @ Netpond.com

don't believe a word I say
ask AGA!
Serge

---
asshole size of Texas,
---

HEY! I'm from texas... don't talk about joee's asshole that way ;-)))

He is a really nice guy in person.
Hooper 100% Unoriginal.

tonda, your "baby" looks like brad!:)
grimm FSN

Red....cute babies are the product of gay sex with meni.

a little light reading

http://www.bunthaus.com/thelist.htm
grimm FSN

Meni,
She's absolutely precious.

How did you manage that?
:-)

Red ( Oprano Text Therapist) Words to sell sex by

http://www.freshphotos.com/personal/tonda/snugs2.jpg

Here is my girl!
Tonda Needs Feeds? One week free no bs!

Meni,
I don't know about you, but there are 2 JoeE' I know.....

The board's Joee is a son-of-a-bitch who just can't live in peace unless somebody rips him an asshole size of Texas,

and there is another Joee...sweet cudly teddy bear I love in person.
(I'm sure even Evan will agree with me on this one)

There is a third Joee I heard of,
Joee on the parking lot calling for "his" sexmaniacs.com domain,
or
Joee calling his former female employee.

THAT ugly mothefucker we haven't seen for a very long time, thanks god, should be thrown in straight jacket in the fully padded room.

Which genes the child is going to get - I have no remote idea,
but I hope the second one.
Serge (EVERY top 10 pay sites accept checks....WHY?)

furthermore, i think these are numbers pulled out of the air, nothing more than *rough* figures that indicate a trend.

The "close enough" principal
grimm FSN

"those that can, do... those that can't, teach"
grimm FSN

Colin... what we are seeing here aren't real numbers. they are skewed based on the source. I would like to see a real sampling, but that would involve complete honesty and disclosure.:)
grimm FSN

Kremen had two decent choices to choose between when he took back sex.com. Either go high brow, disconnect from hardcore porn and make it into a portal the caliber of any of the top non-porn portals, heavy investment and risky.

His other choice was to leave it exactly as it was with Cohen, a filthy stinkhole of a banner farm that was very successful.

Moral of the story........never hire anybody who dubs himself a GURU at anything.

mutt

Serge I already have two kids...how many more do you want me to have?

Tonda Needs Feeds? One week free no bs!

Serge, ssshhh
no one knows me and JoeE have a love child.

JoeE knocked me up March 1999 after a night of showing me and my buddy Mike around the town.
JoeE was a stand up guy and took care of my hotel in FLL when I came down for Donny's wedding. Thats why JoeE will always be #1 in my book.

Meni Jenna Cash

Tonda,
Joee and Meni make cute kids...want some?
Serge (EVERY top 10 pay sites accept checks....WHY?)

kids? cute?
http://www.meni.net/morgan

Meni Jenna Cash

grimm .. pondering our conversation but I'm caught in the headlights .. which way to go?

People are stranger than particles.

:)

80% and 1% ?!!! Why so weirdly skewed? Is this a normal skew? Anyone? Or just them. Seems weird .. maybe one big person at the top?

Like .. if you pick 100 people at random and look at their salaries .. and ya just happen to have Bill Gates in your group .. you'll get something weird like that.

Forest .. I'm home now .. if you're still looking.
Colin

JoeE -

OMG...Your kiddios are so cute! Thanks so much for the pics...it made my day:)

Tonda Needs Feeds? One week free no bs!

I need a content provider willing to lease a bunch of images in exchange for advertising.

its complicated, ill explain it in email, but if you feel this kind of thing fits your organization, email me.
grimm FSN

Sykk

every boy knows there is more action *under* the airline counter:)

grimm FSN

Ulfie, I can help you...
I promissed Brad to crack the first lobster in his honor, I can crack the second one in YOUR honor
;-))

will that help?
;-))
Serge

damn Grimm, when I saw the AI, I was thinking Mike was actually that horrid actor from that shitty Sixth Sense movie...

I figured since the movie AI sucked so bad, the little dude was desperate so turned to a world of lapdances and playahs and the real reason he couldn't go to Miami was because he couldn't see over the airline ticket counter....
SykkBoy how many times must a man look up until he just doesn't see

Serge, I don't like warm beer. ;)

Really looking forward to flying to Miami tomorrow with a sinus infection as well. ;)

Ulfie TGP2 is the future

Ulfie, drink something hot, or you will sound like me!
;-))
Serge

Just found out I'm going to be on http://www.maxcashlive.com/ tonight talking about some of the technical aspects of tgp2. Frankly, I'm sick as a dog today with a sinus infection but I'll be there anyway. I'm a gamer. ;)

Ulfie TGP2 is the future

Confucy, at one time there were many Michael's ( Mike's) posting in YNOT in the old days. So we all came up with different ways of distinguishing ourselves. I just went with AI for Am Index.

Maybe we can have a new contest here on Oprano - Pick a new name for Mike AI.

I am sure I could get a lot of INTERESTING names! haha

Drav - I sent you my # - glad someone caught my Paul Simon joke!

Mike AI

Hooper,
this 1-20% is what makes THIS board so good....

there are more {1-20} folks here than any other OPEN place I know....

subject to discussion, of course, but this si what I really think.

I can be wrong...and I am not putting down ANYBODY else
Serge the Shy 1

AI= Artificial Intelligence;)

Mike AI is really a Solaris workstation in my basement.:)
grimm FSN

Very interesting discussion that KK got started. As a loyal employee at conversioncash i too can vouch that 80% of our revenue comes from (really) about 1% of our webmasters. 15% comes from our own traffic building & the other 5 from the remaining 99% of affiliates.

Most important thing to remember about newbies who don't understand how to market or target or filter or presell... & the reason that we love them is that they give us exit traffic ;-)))
Hooper 100% Unoriginal.

Why don't we call you plain MIKE or
MICHAEL, and add..."Serge's better
half!"

***********

Confucy, there are lots of Mikes and Michaels out there,
MikeAI is the one and only, do you know what A I stands for?
;-)))
Serge

What if everyone involved took a stab at splitting the industry. in effect "ghettoizing" the parts of it that dont work.

grimm
*****************

that would be nice, but I doubt it happens, unless cj's approach will show them that her balls are brassiers and more profitable than theirs.
Serge

confucy..sticky I's could mean conjunctivitis:)
grimm FSN

Why do I have a sudden urge to sing Paul Simon tunes? :-))

Dravyk 4 Free Bucks: Making money for 100% of you

So that begs the question, serge... Why?:) is it ego? I think that has a lot to do with it.

What if all TGP2 Sponsors went exclusive?? would that help or hinder the movement.

What if everyone involved took a stab at splitting the industry. in effect "ghettoizing" the parts of it that dont work.

grimm FSN

Serge because of Oprano I could not afford to go the the convention in Miami!!! It is going to keep me on my moms porch for at least anothe 8 months!

Mike AI
***********

I know what you are saying,
I can't go there either...
;-(((

Confucy,
don't have a surprised look when I knock at your door one day and ask you for the room, board and love
;-))

Serge

Mike, I know the difference between
an *I* and an *L*. I have a very
sticky *I* key that doesn't want
to cooperate today. *S*

Why don't we call you plain MIKE or
MICHAEL, and add..."Serge's better
half!"
confucy GOTH IS GOOD!

but then again, if EVERYONE went exclusive, then people would want to get in these VIP programs, and might take the time to make their sites, strategies and whatnot better to acheive admission.

grimm FSN

**********

Grimm, very SHARP observation, indeed!
Serge (EVERY top 10 pay sites accept checks....WHY?)

I have officially dubbed my living room the "oprano room" because I see serge and mike having to sleep on my couches if this monstrosity doesnt turn a profit soon:)
grimm FSN

You can call me Betty, Mike:)
grimm FSN

Serge because of Oprano I could not afford to go the the convention in Miami!!! It is going to keep me on my moms porch for at least anothe 8 months!

Mike AI

Well, on this one I have to disagree. I think to correctly filter quantity traffic, it wouldn't go back to similiar sites. One would have to scrub and filter and niche and sub-niche all the way down to achieve profit (or the greatest profit). And the bulk of those wouldn't be the larger sites but many independent smaller ones that tend to focus on their sub-niches and excel at them.
-----------------

Excellent point Drav... sub-niching can do wonders for conversion ratios as well as obscure but related fetishes on filtering efforts.....

TheEnforcer Shouldn't you be Making Bank?

KK=
"Let's say the sponsors took the top 20% of their webmasters -- the ones producing 80% of their income -- and they cut private deals with all of them (of course I'm sure they have with many of them already) --

Then they terminated their program, cut the remaining 80% out. "

THis would be smart BUT everyone knows that size does matter when it comes to webmaster programs. and you have to fleece the masses to fiond the good apples that will contribute to that 80%. And what better way to attract those apples than by saying "we pay out 25 thousand webmasters every month" IT sounds better than "we pay out 500 good webmasters every month":)

but then again, if EVERYONE went exclusive, then people would want to get in these VIP programs, and might take the time to make their sites, strategies and whatnot better to acheive admission.

grimm FSN

HiRise shut down our programs to the public due to the high fraud/scam factor. IT was not worth our time and effort to keep it open and have to fend off all the cheaters out there.

We have some new programs coming out, and they will be invite only... at least to begin with.

Mike AI

I have also lost and spent millions.
**************

True. Building Oprano took a HUGE chunk of money....

I doubt we'll be in the black 'till March of 2005.....

when are we lowering rates again?

Serge (EVERY top 10 pay sites accept checks....WHY?)

Hey Grimm, you can call me AL... doo doo do do doo doo doo...

hahaha

Mike AI

Colin... you have mail:) need an answer from ya:)

John IP, hit me when you get in.

grimm FSN

Damn... board is hopping like mad today... might end up being three plus pages worth of posts before they day is done!!

TheEnforcer Shouldn't you be Making Bank?

Come on Mr AL:) dont be modest!
grimm FSN

Does the majority of sponsor exit traffic go anywhere but to other sponsors of the same caliber? No one's excluding these other sponsors from that 20% -- hey, they are probably 10-15% of the deal -- and the same webmasters are probably profitable for many programs so these smart and productive webmasters would stand to earn a good deal more money than they do at the moment.

KK
************

Here are some numbers to ponder....

20% of Serge's Cash webmasters, ALL on the private deals,
made 95% of the money.

we never had more than 70-80 active webmasters in the proggy.

I am not aware of any webmaster's proggy run by Yishai....
Private deals only,
haven't prevented him from doing well.

Now he goeth forth and multiplying...

will he get ANYWHERE near the numbers he had in the good ole days-
remain to be seen, but my guess is NO.
Serge (EVERY top 10 pay sites accept checks....WHY?) thank you, 20%!!!!

>>> Why would the sponsors want to alienate the 20% they make deals with? If they didn't have to fiddle around wasting so much time and money on the cheaters in their programs, they'd be relieved to pay a good rate for joins.

Hmm. Also, good points, KK. :-) However, traditionally when power is in the hands of the very few greed tends to take over reasoning. Not always, but. You might be correct though, they might in this scenario turn high-traffic webmasters into baseball-player superstars, each trying to lure the others away with money, vacations, cars. Hmm. :-)

>>> Of course the other option, one that's a little more drastic is for the sponsors to simply hire the ones they like on salary and stop taking program traffic from any source.

True but the high-traffic webmaster that remains free agent has all the cards in his/her hand. I don't think the webmasters would buy into locked deals. At least the majority of them.

>>> Does the majority of sponsor exit traffic go anywhere but to other sponsors of the same caliber?

Well, on this one I have to disagree. I think to correctly filter quantity traffic, it wouldn't go back to similiar sites. One would have to scrub and filter and niche and sub-niche all the way down to achieve profit (or the greatest profit). And the bulk of those wouldn't be the larger sites but many independent smaller ones that tend to focus on their sub-niches and excel at them.

Dravyk TGP2 show archives with Grimm, Colin, Ludedude

MIKE AL, Levi said that you and JoeE
are two of the webmasters who have
made millions. Where can I find a
little history about your early days
in porn?
____________________________

Confucy I think you should not beleive everything you hear... first it is Mike AI ( ai ), second, while I might have made millions, I have also lost and spent millions.

JoeE is the rich one... I am trying to make it day by day.

Mike AI Voting is going fast and Furious!!

Thats better JoeE - I know you have a sense of humor!!

Mike AI Voting is going fast and Furious!!

Ah well Hooper, you just never know...

They told Gates the PC would never fly either ;)
KK

...and with all his TLC,
I still can't pass the pencil test
;-(((
Serge (EVERY top 10 pay sites accept checks....WHY?) thank you, JoeE!

simply hire the ones they like on salary and stop taking program traffic from any source
---

That is a very good idea & may happen someday... but we all know why that won't happen soon.

Plausible deniability ;-))
Hooper 100% Unoriginal.

Shok, thanks for raiding my PRIVATE stash!

This photo is 4 years old, it was made by Colin next morning after I met Joe...

can you say he had a great impact on my life!?

Webfather, you were smart warning me NOT to accept his drinks and food....
http://nuditycom.com/heswallows.jpg

Serge (EVERY top 10 pay sites accept checks....WHY?) thank you, JoeE!

Confucy,
why are you so obsessed with Kremen?

he is an adult and it's not my business how man makes his money.

He is not doing anything hurting the industry and whatever he does or doesn't do for himself-
is HIS business.

if he asked me what to do-
I'd advice him to get hooked with Jordan and take it from there.

I believe that people with EXPERIENCE worth hundreds of people without it.
Serge (EVERY top 10 pay sites accept checks....WHY?)

Those damn French, they'll corrupt anybody it seems...

;-}}}
KK

Serge.....I finally found what you were up to on vacation!

http://nuditycom.com/heswallows.jpg

your a hottie :)

Shok he swallows

Serge, I have something nice to say
to you. I listened to your archived
show last night. You and Ron did a
very good job covering lots of
subjects. It was very entertaining
and informative.

Both of you said you would have done
things differently with sex.com, but
neither of you elaborated.

What do you say Sergey, why don't
you tell your OPRANO co-horts some
specifics. What would you do at
this very moment if Gary Kremen
called you and asked for your help?

Ron wasn't impressed with the team
Gary selected. Who would you choose
to help you turn around sex.com?

Give us some inside dirt...don't
generalize and bore us to death.

MIKE AL, Levi said that you and JoeE
are two of the webmasters who have
made millions. Where can I find a
little history about your early days
in porn?

WE ALL LIKE WINNERS!
confucy NET RADIO AT ITS BEST

**************TONIGHT***************

LIVE at 8pm EST hear Sharky Interview for the First time on Internet Radio The One The Only ( THANK God there is only 1 of Him)

Forest Williams Pres. and CEO of PFC Communications Inc...

Topic of discussion....The HOTTEST idea on the net today TGP2

Joining us will be Ulfie from http://www.PornGang.com

Come 1 come all to hear what Forest and Ulfie have up there sleeves next for the TGP2 Movement!!!

Where???...http://www.maxcashlive.com
Forest (Pithy is as pithy does)

OK, good points Drav -- but....

"The big boys go from oligarpy to pure monopoly. Once that happens even their private deal prices go down and continue to lower. Necessitating a restart of the previous system. :-) "
--------------------------
Why would the sponsors want to alienate the 20% they make deals with? If they didn't have to fiddle around wasting so much time and money on the cheaters in their programs, they'd be relieved to pay a good rate for joins.

Of course the other option, one that's a little more drastic is for the sponsors to simply hire the ones they like on salary and stop taking program traffic from any source.

"There is also the exit traffic factor to consider from that other 80%. Quality traffic is always better, but there's a lot to be said about quantity (aka, "shit") traffic as there is always a way to filter it and profit from it. It's just an art/science not everyone has learned. Correct, former click-brokers? :-) "
------------------------------
Does the majority of sponsor exit traffic go anywhere but to other sponsors of the same caliber? No one's excluding these other sponsors from that 20% -- hey, they are probably 10-15% of the deal -- and the same webmasters are probably profitable for many programs so these smart and productive webmasters would stand to earn a good deal more money than they do at the moment.

KK

>>> Then they terminated their program, cut the remaining 80% out.

I know some folks -- MikeAI (correct me if I am mistaken please) and others -- have done exactly that.

I know of by-invite-only proggies I am in as well, taking that very stance at the get-go.

>>> I'm not saying this is a way to go, I'm just venturing some numbers out to hear what positives and negatives might come out of the theory...

As for negatives, here's two:

The big boys go from oligarpy to pure monopoly. Once that happens even their private deal prices go down and continue to lower. Necessitating a restart of the previous system. :-)

There is also the exit traffic factor to consider from that other 80%. Quality traffic is always better, but there's a lot to be said about quantity (aka, "shit") traffic as there is always a way to filter it and profit from it. It's just an art/science not everyone has learned. Correct, former click-brokers? :-)

>>> Dravyk, you are in!

Thank you, Serge. :-) And yes I read the small print. :-)

... And to think it took neither years of drinks nor offer to fight you. Just traffic and good business. Imagine that?! :-)))

>>> I hear the united states navy has an impressive fleet of gerbils:)

ROTFL!!

Again great having you guys on the show last night!! In fact, I rushed the archives up for anyone who missed that outstanding show!!

Dravyk TGP2 show archives with Grimm, Colin, Ludedude

KK - Excellent post!
the 80/20 profit/productivity may not be 100% but probably is very close

I can't see anything but positive

It will happen - but in what time frame
This summer, the (US and Global)economy, billing, over saturation and other factors are hopefully going to speed up the evolution

More PornDarwinism
Vick

http://www.cencash.com/myprideandjoy/myprideimages/aug10.jpg

Joee, did you say READ????

this is a photo album,
you are NOT reading!!!

whom are you bullshitting???

we have EYES!
;-))))
Serge

http://www.cencash.com/myprideandjoy/myprideimages/aug10.jpg

Serge-can you read?

;-))) I'll teach you Big Red Dog and others;-))
joee Serge Says Sent ALL Your Traffic Here For Weekly Checks!

ha ha mike;-) better?

Serge, in no way was this a reference to any bad situation our lives have come across from us or our loved ones...

Be like MikeAI and do not get so serious;-)

http://www.cencash.com/myprideandjoy
joee Serge Says Sent ALL Your Traffic Here For Weekly Checks!

I'm not saying this is a way to go, I'm just venturing some numbers out to hear what positives and negatives might come out of the theory...
KK
*********

KK, don't say it.....I'll say it for you

THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST PLANS i EVER SEEN!
Serge (EVERY top 10 pay sites accept checks....WHY?)

Interesting bit of math here, if we were to use the 80/20 theory --

Let's say the sponsors took the top 20% of their webmasters -- the ones producing 80% of their income -- and they cut private deals with all of them (of course I'm sure they have with many of them already) --

Then they terminated their program, cut the remaining 80% out.

Now they'd still have 80% of their business, but with the reduced admin costs they would incur by dealing with so many less webmasters -- not to mention the reduction in chargebacks and other crap stemming from webmaster fraud --

Wouldn't it stand to reason that on 80% of current sales, many, if not all of the sponsors, could actually clear more profit on each sale?

I'd guess many of the smaller or newbie gallery makers would leave the business in droves, and alot of the free stuff would be cleared out in short order -- the free hosts would be happy to 404 tons of stuff if they had their own deals with sponsors most likely.

And yes, there would still be plenty of people to pick up that 80% of non productive peoples traffic, but since that traffic isnt so productive to begin with, how long would these 'pickup' sponsors want to deal with this traffic?

I'm not saying this is a way to go, I'm just venturing some numbers out to hear what positives and negatives might come out of the theory...
KK

Fay or anyone from CyberNetExpo please give me a shout asap.
MelissaD (Nobody is better than me!) <---- In case you need proof

Serge- They keep your family in barbed wire?
*******************

one day you'll visit Normandy and see the beaches
Saving Private Ryan took place...

I don't wanna joke about it.

9000 boys died, not a laughing matter, don't start me.

Serge

JoeE I see no haters, or jokers... you used to be one of them. Taking life too serious now??

If you cannot laugh at yourself, its ok we can handle it for you!

Mike AI Voting is going fast and Furious!!

http://www.klixxx.com/eurotrashjoee/euro_126.jpg

Skinny girl almost like boy ?

Vick

Serge- They keep your family in barbed wire? Jeez when we visted jewish Pargue we got the same feeling..........

http://www.cencash.com/myprideandjoy

Don't forget this side of me Sergie..I have a bunch of 3-5 year olds to fend off my daughter!

;-)))) See yall in Miami!
joee Serge Says Sent ALL Your Traffic Here For Weekly Checks!

Oprano's Original Flat Board

messages
number 13501 through 13600

Oprano's Original Flat Board

messages number 13501 through 13600

messages
number 13501 through 13600