How stupid are we to believe this crock of shit....

[softball]

Israel declares ceasefire in Gaza



Prime Minister Ehud Olmert announces the ceasefire

Israel has begun a unilateral ceasefire in Gaza, three weeks after launching a full-scale assault against Hamas.
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Israel had achieved its goals and Hamas - which has been firing rockets at Israel - had been defeated.
But he said troops would remain in Gaza for now. Hamas said it would not accept one Israeli soldier in Gaza.
Correspondents report the first quiet night in the Strip in 22 days after the ceasefire began at 0200 (0000 GMT).
Nearly 1,200 Palestinians have been killed since the violence began on 27 December. Thirteen Israelis have died.
The US has welcomed the ceasefire, saying it "expects that all parties will cease attacks and hostile actions immediately".
UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon expressed relief, saying the ceasefire should be "the first step leading to the full withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza".
Aid organisations have expressed concern that crossings into Gaza will not reopen fully unless Hamas is committed to a ceasefire.
'Goals achieved'
The Israeli prime minister's announcement came in a televised address following a late-night cabinet meeting.

We feel the pain of every Palestinian child and family member who fell victim to the cruel reality created by Hamas


Ehud Olmert
Israeli prime minister

Excerpts: Olmert declares ceasefire
Ceasefire may not end war
Lebanese fear next step
Survivors count losses in Rafah



Israel's "goals have been achieved, and even more", Mr Olmert said.




Yup, two days before the inauguration. What are we....idiots? Possibly.

[softball]

This shit makes me sick. I know its not porn, but ultimately whenever the world goes to hell in a handcart, our business suffers. The middle east affects our business way more than most think. No peace no profit.

[RawAlex]

Just remember, while Israel is supported by the US, they are also smart enough not to leave a fresh pile of shit on Obama's doorstep. They have no problem crapping all over Bush, that is for sure.

At some point Hamas and their ilk will not be tolerated by civilians and they will no longer allow them to use their back yards and roof tops as sites for military operations. Until then, Israel is well within it's rights to blow them into little pieces to stop the rocket attacks.

It's only crap when bombs don't land in your back yard.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Just remember, while Israel is supported by the US, they are also smart enough not to leave a fresh pile of shit on Obama's doorstep. They have no problem crapping all over Bush, that is for sure.

At some point Hamas and their ilk will not be tolerated by civilians and they will no longer allow them to use their back yards and roof tops as sites for military operations. Until then, Israel is well within it's rights to blow them into little pieces to stop the rocket attacks.

It's only crap when bombs don't land in your back yard.

yeah its all hamas fault yep

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Just remember, while Israel is supported by the US, they are also smart enough not to leave a fresh pile of shit on Obama's doorstep. They have no problem crapping all over Bush, that is for sure.

At some point Hamas and their ilk will not be tolerated by civilians and they will no longer allow them to use their back yards and roof tops as sites for military operations. Until then, Israel is well within it's rights to blow them into little pieces to stop the rocket attacks.

It's only crap when bombs don't land in your back yard.

And you get your information from where again? The Israeli Defense Ministry? You need to broaden your horizons.
As for a fresh pile of shit, they have done just that. Do you think they will just withdraw and that will be that? Or will they remain as an occupational army with as much chance of success as the US in Iraq? Or will they continue to strangle Gaza and watch the rocket fire begin again in retaliation for closing their borders and patrolling their airspace? Remember without the US funding this little shooting match, none of this would be possible. Israel would just be another tin pot middle eastern sand pit.

[RawAlex]

It's not "all" anyone's fault. At some point, we need to accept that terrorists are willing to play by war rules that make us uncomfortable - building bomb launch sites in people's back yards, on the roofs of schools, mosques, and anywhere else they can think of, hoping that some how the "civilized" fighters won't shoot back.

Israel saw a nice chance to take a dump all over Bush, knowing that he would protect them in the UN until the end of his days, and they have now called a stop to it before they have to find out if Obama will be in the same position.

Sucks to be a palestinian. Too bad they are just too proud and apparently too stupid to accept that Israel has a right to exist and to negotiate a real peace - had they done that 20 years ago, they would have way more than they have today.

[softball]

hoping that some how the "civilized" fighters won't shoot back.

There are civilized fighters there?

[softball]

Too bad they are just too proud and apparently too stupid to accept that Israel has a right to exist

I believe that Israel has a right to exist, but many don't. But I also believe that the only right Israel has is to exist in its original boundaries. Settlements, walls and that crap have to go. What you probably don't know about these settlements is that they take the high ground, steal all the water, and kill the crops below. Its more than expansion.

Even after WW 2, the warring factions gave back conquered land. It is what most civilized countries do. Until Israel starts acting like a civilized country, they will gain little support from the first world and will remain squarely planted in the third.

[RawAlex]

Again, the palestinians have had plenty of options since the 60s to say "enough" and to stop bluffing with a bad hand. Instead, they keep pushing their chips into the game and keep losing, and then bitch about it. The current settlement situation is a direct result of Palestinians not being wise enough to take the high road, instead playing the terrorist game that keeps getting them spanked over and over again.

Exactly how many rockets is Isreal suppose to tolerate? How many missles out of Mexico do you think the US would tolerate before the troops hopped the border and started blasting the missile launchers? let's not set a double standard here.

I only ever have one thing against Israel, that the state the religion are entirely intertwined, in a manner that they can excuse state activity by saying it's a need of the faith, and when someone says something about it, everyone says "anti-semite!". It's the perfect cover.

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Again, the palestinians have had plenty of options since the 60s to say "enough" and to stop bluffing with a bad hand. Instead, they keep pushing their chips into the game and keep losing, and then bitch about it. The current settlement situation is a direct result of Palestinians not being wise enough to take the high road, instead playing the terrorist game that keeps getting them spanked over and over again.

Exactly how many rockets is Isreal suppose to tolerate? How many missles out of Mexico do you think the US would tolerate before the troops hopped the border and started blasting the missile launchers? let's not set a double standard here.

I only ever have one thing against Israel, that the state the religion are entirely intertwined, in a manner that they can excuse state activity by saying it's a need of the faith, and when someone says something about it, everyone says "anti-semite!". It's the perfect cover.

Considering the US was one of the first adopters of terrorism, I am not surprised they sponsor states that practice it. When overwhelming force is supplied to a small time power, they naturally have the ability to pound an enemy. Now this is not just money, but military co operation and weaponry. Spy satellite information etc. They have kept Gazans in poverty and are primarily responsible for the existence of Hamas due to their state sponsored terrorism. Remember this is the country that sunk the Liberty and killed many American sailors. Another IDF mistake like burning a UN warehouse? I think not.

[RawAlex]

Oh well, a good discussion turns right and crashes. Film at 11.

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Oh well, a good discussion turns right and crashes. Film at 11.

Good discussions only crash when you are painted into a corner. The Israeli issue is very hard to defend and I understand your reticence to go beyond the obvious. Few do because a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Nothing wrong with the discussion. In today's world, its "Video in five minutes"

[RawAlex]

Rhet, it is easy to defend - but I cannot defend it to someone who starts from so far off in a corner that all the advancements in the world still won't get your thinking into the light.

Your logic is so twisted that you must actually hurt yourself typing.

If Gaza was so short of supplies, how can they manage to get so many weapons, rockets, and other armament? Isn't the issue more to do with Hamas' lack of interest in anything than a spectacular "death by cop" so they can get headlines? When the entire support for Hamas comes from such well know enlightened places as Iran...

Come on. You are making yourself look foolish.

[softball]

Come on. You are making yourself look foolish.

Actually, I would argue the opposite. My arguments come from experience. I know, not everyone can form an opinion from experience, but I did. I lived and worked in the Middle East for a long time. I have been on both sides of the border. I have been rousted by both fingernail factories, the Mossad and Muhabarat. Not to make a big deal of this, but I did have my eyes opened. I have seen the arrogance of the Israelis up close and personal. You have still not addressed the issues like whose land is it anyway? Like most uninformed, you revert to:

Your logic is so twisted that you must actually hurt yourself typing.

When in fact you have little information and that is mostly supplied by the Israeli spin machine. I have a lot of respect for your insight into this business we all slog through every day. If you could turn your intuition toward the propaganda you seem to have swallowed hook, line and sinker, you might just have your eyes opened.

[RawAlex]

My eyes were opened a long time ago. It's incredibly hard to have any sympathy suicide bombers, "military" people who operate from people's houses, mosques, and other public areas. All of your points are made moot by people who show no morals and no value for human life.

The only thing spinning here is you. Wildly at that.

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

My eyes were opened a long time ago. It's incredibly hard to have any sympathy suicide bombers, "military" people who operate from people's houses, mosques, and other public areas. All of your points are made moot by people who show no morals and no value for human life.

The only thing spinning here is you. Wildly at that.

Is it much easier to have sympathy for "military" people who pray in synagogues and on tanks then fire white phosphorus shells into densely populated areas? All of your points, or lack of them, are made moot by people who show no morals and no value for human life.
And no I am not spinning anything. Not a top, not a dradle, not a paragraph. Sometimes the truth is self evident. You should, perhaps, pay attention.

[RawAlex]

When you can explain suicide bombers to me in a way that makes sense, we can keep going. Until then, all the crocodile tears in the world don't really change my opinion.

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

When you can explain suicide bombers to me in a way that makes sense, we can keep going. Until then, all the crocodile tears in the world don't really change my opinion.

Simple Alex. When you don't have f-15's and American military support, you use what you have. In this case, they use suicide bombers. I thought that would be obvious. There are no crocodile tears being shed here, Alex. As I have said before, facts is facts.
BTW.....

"The official, who declined to be named, said that the withdrawal could be complete before U.S. President-elect Barack Obama takes his oath of office in Washington at noon ET Tuesday -- 7 p.m. in Israel -- though commanders have not been given that deadline.

What a shock.

[softball]

Now, its your turn. You explain to me why you think Israel has the right to occupy Palestinian land and steal their water. Quid pro quo.

[RawAlex]

Isreal has a right to exist. The palestinians keep engaging them in a losing war (see your lame F-15 comments to explain away suicide bombers) and they keep losing land, people, and their viability as a "nation".

Palestinians could have said "uncle" at any time in the last 40 or so years and gotten away with a massive territory, all for the price of saying "Isreal has a right to exist". Instead, they cannot swallow their pride, and continue to engage Isreal in a war that they continue to lose.

Isreal only controls much of the land and much of the resources because the Palestinians are too stupid to stop fighting.

Your explaination of suicide bombers is sorely lacking. If they came only as a direct result of an Israeli attack, you might have something. But realistically, they come whenever they feel like like, war or peace, and mostly target civilians. You cannot come up with a sane explaination why a bus full of people going to work is a "valid military target".

You are proving yourself an idiot. But keep going, the entertainment value is there.

[tony404]

The fighters in our revolution would of been called terrorists because they didnt follow the rules of engagement. I would like to see have people would feel if your sitting in your home.There is a knock on the door its men with guns and they say the bible says this is our land get the fuck out. You say but I own this land they say fuck you. Then in later years you will be asked to take the higher ground.

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Isreal has a right to exist. The palestinians keep engaging them in a losing war (see your lame F-15 comments to explain away suicide bombers) and they keep losing land, people, and their viability as a "nation".

Palestinians could have said "uncle" at any time in the last 40 or so years and gotten away with a massive territory, all for the price of saying "Isreal has a right to exist". Instead, they cannot swallow their pride, and continue to engage Isreal in a war that they continue to lose.

Isreal only controls much of the land and much of the resources because the Palestinians are too stupid to stop fighting.

Your explaination of suicide bombers is sorely lacking. If they came only as a direct result of an Israeli attack, you might have something. But realistically, they come whenever they feel like like, war or peace, and mostly target civilians. You cannot come up with a sane explaination why a bus full of people going to work is a "valid military target".

You are proving yourself an idiot. But keep going, the entertainment value is there.

I really hate to say this Alex, but you are really proving your idiocy and ignorance. And no, bud, it is not entertaining. Guys like you are dangerous because you have a vote and can prolong this shit. As far as mostly civilians, let me educate you a little on killing innocents. Google sabra and shatila because it appears you are ignorant of this "little" incident. You blindly accept the fact that Israel has a right to exist. Please explain why. Was it because of Balfour or perhaps Rothschild or maybe the Bible.. As I have said, I agree that Israel does have that right. But I, at least, have an informed opinion. You have no idea.
Alex, your pretzel logic is worse than stupid. So please, dude, no more mudslinging. How about informed opinion for a change. You might need to do some research beyond mainstream American press.

[RawAlex]

tony, you need to think longer in history. Who's land? When? What date?

The rules of engagement are but a part of the issue. The willingness to operate from the middle of civilian areas, only to cry to the press when a bomb is dropped into their operations, killing those same civilians. It is as intentional as it gets, using their own people are human shields and then complaining that those shields get hurt.

Please go back and review the last 40 years. The Palestinians could have said 'stop' many times and would have had a huge country of their own. Instead, the bitch, terrorize, and keep losing ground. They failed the first lesson of life, if you find yourself in a hole stop digging.

I am not fond of the Israeli actions. But I have yet to see a jewish suicide bomber in a palestinian bus.

[softball]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/7838618.stm

Alex, take a look at this. Now you tell me how this equates to the damage and death caused by hamas attacks. Please, I would really like to know.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/7838618.stm

Alex, take a look at this. Now you tell me how this equates to the damage and death caused by hamas attacks. Please, I would really like to know.

They earned it one rocket, one suicide bomber, one border incursion at a time.

Don't start something if you can't stand the heat.

allah akbar to you too.

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

They earned it one rocket, one suicide bomber, one border incursion at a time.

Don't start something if you can't stand the heat.

allah akbar to you too.

Dude, straighten up and fly right. You are kind of useless when you are out of your depth. You have not answered one argument. You just post prattle and headlines. You actually have no fucking idea of what you are talking about but you say it loudly. Like I said before. Guys like you are dangerous. You carry a concealed weapon....an uninformed vote. So, unless you can actually contribute something useful, this is over. So sad, I actually thought you had the right stuff. But it seems that hot air is your long suit. Stick to porn, its all you got, bud and you are damn lucky that Al Gore invented the internet, or you might be pumping gas. I now understand why Trixie thinks you are a moron. At least she reads.

Shalom

[RawAlex]

snicker.

Most of the people who think I am an idiot also have no bearing on my life, except for give me a reason to laugh. Most of those people also don't read what I write, they just make shit up as it goes along. I am okay with that.

Rhet, you started this thread with a big ass agenda, and no matter what I say, your agenda overrules your ability to think past the end of your preconceived notions.

I have been rousted by both fingernail factories, the Mossad and Muhabarat. Not to make a big deal of this, but I did have my eyes opened.

I don't have to go any further to say that you have a dislike for the Israelis 9and you shoudln't be impressed by the Palestinians either), so no matter what they do you will have a bad opinion. Preconceived notions, ya?

One day you will learn the difference between "uninformed" and "not in agreement". Just because I don't swallow your one sided spew whole doesn't mean I am an idiot, I just don't agree with you. Live with it.

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

snicker.

Most of the people who think I am an idiot also have no bearing on my life, except for give me a reason to laugh. Most of those people also don't read what I write, they just make shit up as it goes along. I am okay with that.

Rhet, you started this thread with a big ass agenda, and no matter what I say, your agenda overrules your ability to think past the end of your preconceived notions.



I don't have to go any further to say that you have a dislike for the Israelis 9and you shoudln't be impressed by the Palestinians either), so no matter what they do you will have a bad opinion. Preconceived notions, ya?

One day you will learn the difference between "uninformed" and "not in agreement". Just because I don't swallow your one sided spew whole doesn't mean I am an idiot, I just don't agree with you. Live with it.

I actually don't need to live with it. I actually read what you wrote and you said nothing. Rhetoric and bullshit do not an opinion make. But you actually knew that. I do have an opinion which you don't. That, by nature is pre conceived,and, I suppose, that escaped you. I would continue this if it was a discussion, but since you have nothing to contribute there is no discussion. It has degenerated into a pissing match which you started by casting aspersions instead of "opinions". I was hoping that you actually would have some knowledge of this issue and a spirited debate would ensue. That never happened. This is now a waste of ink and is over. And btw. I don't think you are an idiot. I think you are very naieve. I am not sure whidh is worse. You make up your own mind. I do suggest, however, that if you have any interest at all in this issue, which when Hillary steps up to the plate will become one of the most important topics of discussion in the world, then you should figure out what the hell it is you are pontificating on. Until then, stick to porn which is something you do know your chops. But that is just business and anyone who can only talk shop, is a boring person at best. At worst, dangerous. Its people with uninformed "opinions" elected Bush and look where we are today. Words are more deadly than weapons.

[RawAlex]

The problem is you aren't reading, and you certainly aren't responding.

Get back to the start: Isreal took advantage of Bush being a lame duck weenie and went in to clean up the shit coming out of Gaza before there was a change of administration, because they don't know if they will have the old "blind bush" style carte blanche they have had for the last 8 years in the UN. They are also smart enough (way fucking smarter than the Palestinians) to stop and get out of town before Obama gets the job. Until they know who they are dealing with, they have no chance. If they didn't take action now, action later might have been harder.

For the rest of it, well, I feel sorry for the Palestinian people because they have been lead by some of the biggest losers in modern history. Yassir Arafat took them from having almost all the land in the area to being closed down to very small areas (and would have been smaller if the Israeli's didn't give some back... but you don't want to remember that part, do you?).

Now they are down to playing the pathetic card, claiming that their high rise slums are "refugee camps" (no refugee camp has buildings more than 1 story high). They fire missiles into Israel. they chant "death to the zionists", and they engage in acts of terror.

I pity them, but I don't respect them. What they have gotten in the last 2 or 3 weeks is exactly what they earned. The Palestinian people as a whole need to wake the fuck up and stop supporting terrorism, stop trying to wipe Israel off the map, and stop being idiots. Every time they fight back, they lose more. Will they learn only when they have been pushed into the sea or into Egypt?

Sorry, but to blame Israel for all the problems is just ignorant.

BTW, thanks for suggesting I would have voted for Bush. Proof you have no clue.

(ahh yeah, and end it. go bait someone else for a while with your horseshit).

[softball]

(no refugee camp has buildings more than 1 story high).

Well, that about puts paid to any argument you have tried to make. Like I said before, you need to get read in on the issue before you flap your gums. That quote was one big failure.

They fire missiles into Israel. they chant "death to the zionists", and they engage in acts of terror.

I agree with all of that. But so do the Israelis. they just have more fire power supplied by the USA. the Palestinians cannot compete with that. So they get pissed off and chant...big deal. They fire rockets because they are being choked and starved and as for acts of terror, Israel can trump them any day of the week. Their incursions into Lebanon alone far outstrips anything the Palestinians are capable of. BTW, I notice you ignored Sabra and Shatilla.

[softball]

OK, I stand corrected.....maybe you meant no refugee camp has buildings more than 1 story high after the Israelis have hammered the crap out of it. If that is what you meant, then I apologise.

[RawAlex]

I understand now. You are confusing cause and effect. So sad.

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I understand now. You are confusing cause and effect. So sad.

What is sadder is that you don't even know what that means. Cut and paste doesn't cut it Alex. You need to start thinking for yourself. Stop letting others do it for you or stick to what you are good at....porn. Otherwise you are just part of the problem and now is not the time for hangers on.

[RawAlex]

I'm an idiot bush lover. I don't think for myself. I don't read anything. I don't travel. I don't know anything.

whatever!

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I'm an idiot bush lover. I don't think for myself. I don't read anything. I don't travel. I don't know anything.

whatever!

You said it. Time to get back to blogging, dude. You did not respond to one important point. You just flung shit when you ran out of gas. Its all you got. Deal with it. My favourite bit of nonsense was the one story refugee camp. Move along, nothing to say here.

[RawAlex]

do your knuckles actually scrape the ground when you walk?

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

do your knuckles actually scrape the ground when you walk?

I was actually wondering if you really pay attention to facts or do you just blow smoke and throw turds.....an evolutionary miracle that doesn't require a thumb.

[softball]

BTW, now you bore me. Perhaps when you have read and researched this issue we may talk again. Until then, this discussion is over due to lack of well......serious discussion. TTFN

[RawAlex]

Here, while I don't agree with the content of this site, take it as seeing the other side of things.

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_co...&x_article=960

I particularly like the opening line:

Why do Palestinians in Gaza still live in refugee camps? Did the Israelis force Palestinians to stay in the squalid, overcrowded camps?

Palestinians still live in refugee camps, even when the camps are in Palestinian Authority controlled areas, because the PLO opposes and prevents refugee resettlement. As the PLO slogan goes, A Palestinian refugee never moves out of his camp except to return home (ie, to Israel).

I know it's beyond your grasp, but sometimes the Palestinians do it to themselves.

(oh yeah, the only smoke and turds I see all have your stink on them)

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Here, while I don't agree with the content of this site, take it as seeing the other side of things.

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_co...&x_article=960

I particularly like the opening line:



I know it's beyond your grasp, but sometimes the Palestinians do it to themselves.

(oh yeah, the only smoke and turds I see all have your stink on them)

Yeah, Quoting Alex Safian....a new all time low. Got any good Ann Coulter you would like to share?

If you would like to move this into the issues section, I might continue this beating, but unless you are, give it a rest. The true Alex is showing and it ain't pretty. up to you.

[RawAlex]

Nothing personal, but fuck off. as I stated, I don't agree with the content (or the poster) but it would be nice if you thought past the end of your nose.

I'm done with this thread. nothing short of a suicide bomber at your front door would change your mind at this point, and I am sure not going to send one.

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Nothing personal, but fuck off. as I stated, I don't agree with the content (or the poster) but it would be nice if you thought past the end of your nose.

I'm done with this thread. nothing short of a suicide bomber at your front door would change your mind at this point, and I am sure not going to send one.

Finally. It took awhile, but the conclusion was foregone.

[RawAlex]

This message is hidden because rhetorical is on your ignore list.

I had forgotten this board had that function. Nice.

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

This message is hidden because rhetorical is on your ignore list.

I had forgotten this board had that function. Nice.

I guess willpower is not your long suit. LOL