The Deecash Plot Thickens

[gonzo]

Porn Valley- There for awhile iBangPornStars.com was touting itself as one of the most visited adult sites in creation.

But that’s not stopping Chef Jeff, who was banging the porn stars, from leaving the operation. Jeff is joining the US Army. And why, especially at his age, would he be leaving such a “lucrative” operation you ask, and be opting for khakis instead?

That’s part of the story. Jeff had plans on leaving porn going back a year and a half ago. Which he did for a couple of weeks until a former Marine sent an e-mail informing the city of Surprise, Arizona of Jeff’s porn past. Jeff, a former tennis pro, had been working an administrative job in the city’s tennis program but was fired when all that information came to light.

That’s when Chef hooked up with Mayorsmoney.com and started the iBangPornStars website. But in recent weeks, Jeff was doing little or no P.R. to promote the website, whereas in the beginning he came out of the gate like gangbusters.

However, earlier this year, Mayormoney sold their company to Dee Cash on the fact that the website was performing so well. Dee Cash is in the process of acquiring a lot of programs and companies.

The original plan was that Dee Cash was going to put resources behind the site and send more traffic to it. Instead, it was just the opposite. From the time Dee Cash purchased iBangPornStars they rarely updated the free area since its purchase. And in the members area they’ve only updated two new episodes. Apparently leaving the site stagnating is part of the new business model.

The owner of Dee Cash supposedly said that with his experience, even if he didn’t sink another penny into it, it’s still going to do the same number of joins and sales just because of the sheer volume of links and traffic it already gets.

True. Since the updates ceased, the site does the same number of sales. The site, on the other hand, also banks on aggressive billing tactics.

A trial membership is a dollar. But on the join page there are two boxes at the bottom of the page which are already checked. These are called “cross sales”. If the customer doesn’t uncheck those boxes, he’s automatically billed for joining two additional sites at full price which is $39.95 for each site.

Which means a lot of people who participate in trial sign ups will be billed $81. The option is given you to uncheck the boxes, but the system banks on the fact that most people won’t bother to scroll down the page and even notice.

After someone signs on for a trial membership, the next billing practice is put into effect which is called the “instant upgrade”. So when you have a trial membership and go into the members area, you can browse around but the minute you click on something, be it a video or photo, that means you’ve just agreed to upgrade to a full membership at $39.95. Which means theoretically a trial membership can cost you $121.

With the fact that their affiliates send them traffic for which they pay $30 to $35 a signup, Dee Cash is still generating a pretty good piece of change. And most customers never bother to complain, anyway, about porn bills on their credit cards. With the fact that the company is located in the Philippines means that customer service isn’t exactly to the ready.

The army story is that Jeff wants to pursue a career in photojournalism and eventually land a job with a large publication. He decided that the means of doing this was by taking advantage of the army’s program. But if you talked to Jeff in recent weeks you could tell he was burning out from the porn business.

[RawAlex]

One of the reasons to buy programs that are on NATS or move them to NATS is to better handle these sorts of cross sales. Better to sell across your different sites if you have them. Just as good if you are trying to make the most money in a very short time before the "end of the porn business".

Good luck to Jeff, I am sure he will do well in whatever he choses to do.

[DannyCox]

I was curious about a few things, so I went to check Alexa rankings for sites that were acquired by DeeCash. Every one of them has dropped in traffic, some drastically.

I also had a look at some of the sites that I knew fairly well, and nothing is being updated anywhere. An example if the Join Right Now sites, nothing has been updated in a few months. I see the posts on GFY where the guys are falling over themselves to talk about how great things get when DeeCash takes over, but I just don't see the results. Every program we promoted that was taken over by DC has resulted in a big decrease in revenue. We've now pulled everything we had that was going to programs now run by DC, and replaced them with much smaller programs and seeing 5 to 10 times the results.

There is something really fishy going on with all this.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by DannyCox

I was curious about a few things, so I went to check Alexa rankings for sites that were acquired by DeeCash. Every one of them has dropped in traffic, some drastically.

I also had a look at some of the sites that I knew fairly well, and nothing is being updated anywhere. An example if the Join Right Now sites, nothing has been updated in a few months. I see the posts on GFY where the guys are falling over themselves to talk about how great things get when DeeCash takes over, but I just don't see the results. Every program we promoted that was taken over by DC has resulted in a big decrease in revenue. We've now pulled everything we had that was going to programs now run by DC, and replaced them with much smaller programs and seeing 5 to 10 times the results.

There is something really fishy going on with all this.

Deecash buys them their drinks.

[RawAlex]

Danny, same sort of guys who pretty much blew Legendary Lars on the boards even as AFF bought tons of traffic from Zango which likely reduced commissions by affiliates... especially funny when guys had their sites targeted and still got on their knees.

It is always amazing what happens between Bros.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

It is always amazing what happens between Bros.

You will soon forget them in 6 months as they ask you if youd like it toasted or not.

[Greg B]

I can applaud a person changing careers and phooey on people who used this guys porn past to derail his dreams. Forgiveness is the only way we progress as a species.

[softball]

Originally Posted by Greg B

I can applaud a person changing careers and phooey on people who used this guys porn past to derail his dreams. Forgiveness is the only way we progress as a species.

Darwin doesn't forgive.....

[tony404]

it seems more and more people are turning to prechecked cross sales. My guess is with the shit economy there has been a dip and they are scared. I asked one big fish on the jungle and he told me he did them to make more money and to keep competitive. What does slamming some customers credit card have to do with staying competitive I dont have a clue. The thing that will suck is when visa makes cb's .5 % they will have the balls to say why are they picking on us?

[tony404]

I wish Jeff the best,he seems like a very nice guy. I dont understand joining the army to become a photojournalist. From what I read about going into that field, there is a guy has a blog about it. The army doesnt seem like the way to go.

[DannyCox]

The prechecked cross sales are nothing new. Most of the old big players did that years ago, and then with the huge increase in CBs, were forced to stop or lose their merchant accounts.

My opinion in all this (and word I received last night) is that Deecash is just going to quickly take advantage of the cross sales and the profits, get their money out, and let everything die. We'll have lots of programs gone very shortly which will help open things up for the rest of us. It's a bad thing for the customer, but can be a good thing for many of us as their current affiliates will need places to put their traffic.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by DannyCox

The prechecked cross sales are nothing new. Most of the old big players did that years ago, and then with the huge increase in CBs, were forced to stop or lose their merchant accounts.

My opinion in all this (and word I received last night) is that Deecash is just going to quickly take advantage of the cross sales and the profits, get their money out, and let everything die. We'll have lots of programs gone very shortly which will help open things up for the rest of us. It's a bad thing for the customer, but can be a good thing for many of us as their current affiliates will need places to put their traffic.

This is exactly the crap that gives the adult industry a bad name. Quick buck artists that are in it to rape the customer, (no pun intended) and run off with the money before anyone notices.

Call it for what it is...a Scam. It's not "cross sales," or any such thing. It's a scam. It's dishonest, and has no place in any business. One of the reasons we don't link to allot of outside companies. I don't want to be attached to anything that even "hints" of scam.

[gonzo]

$81 bucks when your expecting to spend a dollar...what do you expect?

We all know how this story ends anyhow.

Dont give a fuck where Deepak lives. People are serving time.
Going to be a huge glut of affiliate managers on the market soon as well.

Danny is right though. It will take some of the shit stain out of the surfers faces.
The entire playing field is going to be different within as little as 3 years.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

This is exactly the crap that gives the adult industry a bad name. Quick buck artists that are in it to rape the customer, (no pun intended) and run off with the money before anyone notices.

Call it for what it is...a Scam. It's not "cross sales," or any such thing. It's a scam. It's dishonest, and has no place in any business. One of the reasons we don't link to allot of outside companies. I don't want to be attached to anything that even "hints" of scam.

Doesnt this put the rude.com purchase in perspective now?

Huge list of people to spam via private mail for $1 tours.
All of the solo girls on there are nothing more than free content to rope the unaware into $81 rebilling charges.

[sarettah]

lol. This is some funny shit.

The shit I am seeing out there makes Crescent look mild.

Same thing, different day. Take out Crescent, nothing changes, same tactics, same shit. On and on, over and over.

It's so pretty, it goes round and round and round and round................

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by sarettah

lol. This is some funny shit.

The shit I am seeing out there makes Crescent look mild.

Same thing, different day. Take out Crescent, nothing changes, same tactics, same shit. On and on, over and over.

It's so pretty, it goes round and round and round and round................

And the dumbasses still send the traffic. . .

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by gonzo

And the dumbasses still send the traffic. . .

Yeppirs, and then they bitch about how bad all those tactics make the internet adult industry look and how the scammers are ruining the biz.

Like I said, round and round and round.....

[DannyCox]

To tell you the truth, I gave up on most people in this industry back around 2000. All I ever saw was a bunch of "Sheep" just "Stampeding" after whatever the perceived Big Guys told them was the next best thing. 98% of the guys at the zoo still only promote the more visible programs, and these tend to be programs with the worse content for the niche they are offering websites in. They then talk about the amazing conversions and retentions they all get, when we all know it is pure bullshit.

We have quietly been promoting the smaller niche sites over the years, and doing a hell of a lot better than anything you can do with a large, over priced, and extremely saturated site. My typical rule is if a program or site becomes too popular, I drop it and move on to something else.

We have sites in our Network that really do convert well and still have amazing retention. A little site like http://www.wifecrazy.com really hooks the surfers and her amazing personality really keeps them around. But because it isn't "slick" looking (ie. looks like every other site out there), affiliates won't touch it. We have a few making a killing from that site. We also have other sites in the mature and stocking niches that do really well. The difference is these are all real women running their own sites with their own personalities. That's what works, not overly Photoshopped images and slick graphics, but the connection between the woman and her fan.

The types of sites we have is what I also look at to promote as I know it sells well. Anyone who truly understands this Industry would understand that. Unfortunately, the majority of affiliates truly are idiots who just can't think for themselves. They have to be told what to do and will only listen to people who have huge post counts at the zoo. Most of the big posters over there actually do very little. After all, when you spend your day and night posting on everything, you aren't doing any work that will truly bring you money.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by DannyCox

To tell you the truth, I gave up on most people in this industry back around 2000. All I ever saw was a bunch of "Sheep" just "Stampeding" after whatever the perceived Big Guys told them was the next best thing. 98% of the guys at the zoo still only promote the more visible programs, and these tend to be programs with the worse content for the niche they are offering websites in. They then talk about the amazing conversions and retentions they all get, when we all know it is pure bullshit.

We have quietly been promoting the smaller niche sites over the years, and doing a hell of a lot better than anything you can do with a large, over priced, and extremely saturated site. My typical rule is if a program or site becomes too popular, I drop it and move on to something else.

We have sites in our Network that really do convert well and still have amazing retention. A little site like http://www.wifecrazy.com really hooks the surfers and her amazing personality really keeps them around. But because it isn't "slick" looking (ie. looks like every other site out there), affiliates won't touch it. We have a few making a killing from that site. We also have other sites in the mature and stocking niches that do really well. The difference is these are all real women running their own sites with their own personalities. That's what works, not overly Photoshopped images and slick graphics, but the connection between the woman and her fan.

The types of sites we have is what I also look at to promote as I know it sells well. Anyone who truly understands this Industry would understand that. Unfortunately, the majority of affiliates truly are idiots who just can't think for themselves. They have to be told what to do and will only listen to people who have huge post counts at the zoo. Most of the big posters over there actually do very little. After all, when you spend your day and night posting on everything, you aren't doing any work that will truly bring you money.

This is a great post and youve recanted something that several of us have known for a long time.

This is one of the reasons I put the am board on here to encourage some of the smaller solo sites to promote themselves here to several people that I know that will take advantage of it.

[LAJ]

ChefJeff IS a great guy. I wish him only the best, and it's too bad how he was neglected after the sale.

[softball]

Wasn't Chef Jeff involved with AM?

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Wasn't Chef Jeff involved with AM?

THe guy has had a total run of bad luck.

[softball]

Originally Posted by gonzo

THe guy has had a total run of bad luck.

I recall he was a great guy.

[dirkg]

Originally Posted by DannyCox

We have sites in our Network that really do convert well and still have amazing retention. A little site like [wifecrazy.com really hooks the surfers .........

I find sites like this a lot in some smaller niches that I want to promote. Problem is there is no easy way to find the affiliate page or the site looks so home made that I just figure its got no affiliates and get pissed off and leave. I guess I will just have to start sending out emails.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by DannyCox

To tell you the truth, I gave up on most people in this industry back around 2000. All I ever saw was a bunch of "Sheep" just "Stampeding" after whatever the perceived Big Guys told them was the next best thing. 98% of the guys at the zoo still only promote the more visible programs, and these tend to be programs with the worse content for the niche they are offering websites in. They then talk about the amazing conversions and retentions they all get, when we all know it is pure bullshit.

We have quietly been promoting the smaller niche sites over the years, and doing a hell of a lot better than anything you can do with a large, over priced, and extremely saturated site. My typical rule is if a program or site becomes too popular, I drop it and move on to something else.

We have sites in our Network that really do convert well and still have amazing retention. A little site like http://www.wifecrazy.com really hooks the surfers and her amazing personality really keeps them around. But because it isn't "slick" looking (ie. looks like every other site out there), affiliates won't touch it. We have a few making a killing from that site. We also have other sites in the mature and stocking niches that do really well. The difference is these are all real women running their own sites with their own personalities. That's what works, not overly Photoshopped images and slick graphics, but the connection between the woman and her fan.

The types of sites we have is what I also look at to promote as I know it sells well. Anyone who truly understands this Industry would understand that. Unfortunately, the majority of affiliates truly are idiots who just can't think for themselves. They have to be told what to do and will only listen to people who have huge post counts at the zoo. Most of the big posters over there actually do very little. After all, when you spend your day and night posting on everything, you aren't doing any work that will truly bring you money.

Right the fuck on! That's it, nuff freakin' said!

I found out the past year how much bullshit is slung around this industry. That I was making more than the majority of people and I don't even have a million sites like some guys. Gonzo, Hammer, Legacy and a few others knows what I'm talking about because I've been nagging and studying for a year. Got all my statistics up and growing. I stopped promoting the big sites because why send 10,000 hits to make one sale when you can divert that traffic to a smaller pro niche based program and get 10 sales.

Everything you've said about this industry is true but one thing you left out and that's the underhanded attacks by cliques and dumbasses who can't earn a sale they have to steal one. That's the #1 thing that's going to end this industry are the fuckups in it.

[softball]

ah the holy grail of porn....the niche. When I first started in this business, you couldn't convince anyone there was money in niche. They all thought mainstream porn was all there was. As the money runs out, they are grasping at straws, but very few people can really promote niche. And I do mean very few.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

...but very few people can really promote niche. And I do mean very few.

...and the reason for that is pretty basic. Very few really understand the niches they promote. So they're just throwing spaghetti at the wall.

[pam]

Wait, there's money in niches and sub-niches?

[softball]

Originally Posted by pam

Wait, there's money in niches and sub-niches?

no no no shhhhh there be dragons. Money is in teens and milfs

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Doesnt this put the rude.com purchase in perspective now?

Huge list of people to spam via private mail for $1 tours.
All of the solo girls on there are nothing more than free content to rope the unaware into $81 rebilling charges.

Is that what they're doing?
Knowing some of those involved, (still involved?) I find it hard to believe they would do that. If true, it's dissapointing.

[DannyCox]

It is very true. If you go to the join page at http://secure.ibangpornstars.com/signup/presignup.php , put in a fake e-mail address and select one of the billing options you get the sign-up page. They have to pre-checked boxes that say nothing about a charge but do have small asterisks next to them. The page is designed so that the information on the charge is below the viewable area. One site has a 2 day trial that recurs at $39.97, the other has a single day trial that recurs at $39.97. We all know from history that maybe only 1 in 10 people will even notice that.

Therefore, a surfer drops in, sees the great deal of only $1.00 for a 3 day trial and signs up without noticing the pre-checked boxes or what they even mean. Next thing he knows, he's been billed for $80.94 and probably never even looked at the other sites. Many people don't even realize they can charge back, and just let it go, forever pissed off at all of us. That little trick costs us all members.

[MRock]

I knew I've been doing something wrong all of these years! Now I know the missing ingrediant ... deception. (joke)

[Hammer]

Tricking members when they sign up is a low thing to do but this isn't the only business that does it, they all do in one way or another. In porn it makes no sense to me though because surely most of those people end up charging back.

[Toby]

Pre-checked cross sales are just a piss poor way of doing business no matter how any of the sponsors using them try to justify the practice.

[Toby]

Add one more program to the list.

Originally Posted by DeeCash-Vipesh

Pleased to announce "DeeCash Acquires StfuCash and we've relaunched the program...

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Toby

Add one more program to the list.

Vipesh...another jerk off. He used to hit me up for more traffic. I asked him about buying advertising here and they werent adding any more ads... so I wasnt adding anymore sponsors.

Looks like they got em a fresj processing account with this one.

[RawAlex]

While some on GFY are claiming this is a "great thing", I think all these purchases are nothing more than proof that there is going to be a huge reduction in the numbers of players in the next 6 months or so... in fact, I can see many programs (and webmasters) having a hard time making it out of summer.

[tony404]

It's on gfy he bought stfu cash also. My guess is sales have dropped and people want out. Now I heard its payments not a outright sale. If that's the case, I would never do that you buy it buy it all in one shot. I had a friend who sold his restaurant that way in payments, he had it back in 6 months.

[RawAlex]

okay, here's a little more for this discussion:

Deecash took over Meatcash this week (I gather). They are running $100 PPS special right now. The deal? The signup page includes 2 prechecked cross sales at $39.97 each (1 day $1 trials on them) plus the original site ($1 trial). So within 24 hours, they are even on your payout and in 3 days they are profitable... 34 days from now they have made back your payout...

So total day 1 sale is $3. day 2 adds $79.94, and day 3 adds another $39.97 (for the original site). $100 PPS on this isn't hard when you are hitting the client effectively for $122.91 up front.

I personally think they are buying tons of programs so they have tons of different routes to cross bill through. The are generating an apparent ton of sales because they are tripling up every purchase.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

...I personally think they are buying tons of programs so they have tons of different routes to cross bill through. The are generating an apparent ton of sales because they are tripling up every purchase.

At some point you also have to hold the processors partly responsible for allowing the practice. They're making some coin here too in processing fees, and somehow seem to be avoiding the dreaded chargeback issues.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Toby

At some point you also have to hold the processors partly responsible for allowing the practice. They're making some coin here too in processing fees, and somehow seem to be avoiding the dreaded chargeback issues.

Mitch from Netbilling says prechecked cross sales are ok.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Mitch from Netbilling says prechecked cross sales are ok.

I think that Mitch might end up with a different opinion when the chargebacks start to pile up. My personal feeling is that this is the sort of deal that takes months if not a year to truly play out, where people start looking and start charging back months and months of stuff they didn't think they agreed to.

I also think this is a much faster way to push a card past it's limit and push members out the door.

[RawAlex]

The newest promo is a $200 PPS that has all the zoo-philes in a lather. 2 prechecked cross sales and a statement that you agree to the terms and conditions, but there is no terms and conditions link on either of the signup pages.

My theory is if they can pay $200PPS, then they are likely making more than that on every signup.

[Toby]

It's getting increasingly difficult to stay far enough upwind to avoid the stink.

[Nymph]

Anyone else here leary of joining any new progs for fear they might get bought up too?

I've had at least one of mine bought & put in the mix already. This was a few months ago, and they still don't have all the promo material right, and conversions have gone to shit.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Toby

It's getting increasingly difficult to stay far enough upwind to avoid the stink.

Amen to that.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

Amen to that.

(Not that I'm a religious man, but you get the sentiment)

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Nymph

...they still don't have all the promo material right, and conversions have gone to shit.

That seems to be a recurring theme with most of the programs they've bought.

Fortunately for me very few multi-site programs have fetishwear sites worth promoting.

However, should Dee happen to buy a program that I am currently promoting, my links would come down quickly and I'd send that traffic somewhere else.

[RawAlex]

I think what makes me laugh is that if you have been around the biz for a while, you know what comes right after these stupidly high payouts...

[RawAlex]

Sorry, can't let this go... a true two shotter today:

1) About half the threads at this moment on the zoo are insane payout promotions for various Deecash sites ($100 - $200 PPS on $1 trials?)

2) Mr Deecash himself proved to be a top notch standup guy and a bro by buying tons of champagne in Vegas at the xbiz deal.

I am guessing the people at the zoo are too young to recognize the pattern here.