I need paysite advice please

marcus · 08-19-2004

How important is exclusive content to the success of a paysite?

Would you release a site that didn't have exclusive content in it? Am I making a mistake if I only have purchased content in my paysite?

pushpills · 08-19-2004

I believe the owner of Silver "cookie cutter" Cash has made pleanty for himself.

Exits and upsells upsells upsells (and shaving) are king.

Yug · 08-19-2004

The success of a paysite is dependant on traffic ... if you have no traffic, then your site will not be a success, simple as that ...

traffic is king, content (exclusive and cookie cutter) has its place, but probably a few seats back from traffic, step-son of the king twice removed or something ...

GaryAlan · 08-19-2004

Depends on your market too.

Traffic is king in all markets. No question of that.

Exclusivity and community retain in the gay market. You can sell the cookie cutter sites well but if you want to retain members, exclusive content holds them.

Gary-Alan

cj · 08-20-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Yug@Aug 19 2004, 09:41 PM
The success of a paysite is dependant on traffic ... if you have no traffic, then your site will not be a success, simple as that ...

traffic is king, content (exclusive and cookie cutter) has its place, but probably a few seats back from traffic, step-son of the king twice removed or something ...

LOL

I find it hilarious that everyone is still reciting the old 'traffic is king' in a time when there is more traffic than there are decent places to send it ...

1 can't survive without the other ... traffic isn't king if the traffic doesn't want to buy anything you are offering!

If you have good content, the traffic part is easy. but as the cookie cutter sites have learnt over the last 12 months, traffic, without somewhere good to send it, is just a bunch of freeloaders using up your bandwidth!

Or in hoopers case, a bunch of freeloaders whose surfing habits you can control by installing stuff on their machines!

We continue to make the mistake of ignoring what content *is*. Its anything that holds a surfers attention - even ads are content if they are done right.

Traffic is Traffic ...
Content is Content ...

Traffic & Content together is King

Hell Puppy · 08-20-2004

And psychology drives both.

You've gotta understand the surfer. First off, regardless of the source of the traffic (mailer, SE, TGP, banner, etc), you gotta make the user click. And unless you're looking for "water" for the soup, you want to be filtering and match what he clicked to what you're trying to sell.

The tour of a paysite is ALL about psychology, you gotta somehow entice the dude to crack that wallet to see what's on the other side. You gotta know what makes him tick to do that consistently successfully.

I've never been able to sell things like gay sites for this reason, I dont know how to work the psychology because I find the idea of some dude's hairy asshole to be anything but erotic. Any gay sales I've ever had are simply a product of blind luck and volume.

eatapeach · 08-20-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by cj@Aug 19 2004, 08:49 PM
We continue to make the mistake of ignoring what content *is*. Its anything that holds a surfers attention - even ads are content if they are done right.

cj rocks

DrGuile · 08-20-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by cj@Aug 19 2004, 11:49 PM
LOL

I find it hilarious that everyone is still reciting the old 'traffic is king' in a time when there is more traffic than there are decent places to send it ...

1 can't survive without the other ... traffic isn't king if the traffic doesn't want to buy anything you are offering!

If you have good content, the traffic part is easy. but as the cookie cutter sites have learnt over the last 12 months, traffic, without somewhere good to send it, is just a bunch of freeloaders using up your bandwidth!

Or in hoopers case, a bunch of freeloaders whose surfing habits you can control by installing stuff on their machines!

We continue to make the mistake of ignoring what content *is*. Its anything that holds a surfers attention - even ads are content if they are done right.

Traffic is Traffic ...
Content is Content ...

Traffic & Content together is King

Although you are "correct" here is a simple reflection:

With the best site/content in the world and no traffic, I cannot make money.
With the worst site/content in the world, and enough traffic, I WILL make money.

What's my #1 priority?

MaDalton · 08-20-2004

i'm glad that i have customers who like buying their exclusive stuff from me - and it seems to work good for them. But they already have tons of traffic.

cj · 08-21-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Aug 20 2004, 12:23 AM
And psychology drives both.

You've gotta understand the surfer. First off, regardless of the source of the traffic (mailer, SE, TGP, banner, etc), you gotta make the user click. And unless you're looking for "water" for the soup, you want to be filtering and match what he clicked to what you're trying to sell.

The tour of a paysite is ALL about psychology, you gotta somehow entice the dude to crack that wallet to see what's on the other side. You gotta know what makes him tick to do that consistently successfully.

I've never been able to sell things like gay sites for this reason, I dont know how to work the psychology because I find the idea of some dude's hairy asshole to be anything but erotic. Any gay sales I've ever had are simply a product of blind luck and volume.

Spot On.

And by understanding the psychology of human beings, you will be able to sell ice to eskimo's. Emotion controls the psychology of a person, which is why everything that's in the media is designed to make you feel an emotion - even negative emotions can still end up in a sale of *something*.

cj · 08-21-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by DrGuile@Aug 20 2004, 02:30 PM
Although you are "correct" here is a simple reflection:

With the best site/content in the world and no traffic, I cannot make money.
With the worst site/content in the world, and enough traffic, I WILL make money.

What's my #1 priority?

I knew someone would have that exact point Dr Guile ;-))))

of course number 2 ... but then what? And where's the guarantee that just because you have traffic you will make money?

You can *always* buy traffic - originality can't be bought

How about if the question is twisted a little ...

If you were offered the following options, which would you take?

1) A really good site with unique &/or high quality content

or

2) A shit site with really good traffic

Lee · 08-21-2004

#2

A shit site with really good traffic is still going to amount to a lot of $$$

Just look at 90% of the cookie cutter sites out there presently reusing the same old tired content.

Flood the market with 100's of shit sites using the same content and the traffic will follow especially if you offer an affiliate program.

Regards,

Lee

Yug · 08-22-2004

Quote:

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Originally posted by cj+Aug 21 2004, 04:00 AM-->
QUOTE (cj @ Aug 21 2004, 04:00 AM)

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08-22-2004 #14

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Quote:

Originally posted by Lee@Aug 21 2004, 12:24 PM
#2

A shit site with really good traffic is still going to amount to a lot of $$$

Just look at 90% of the cookie cutter sites out there presently reusing the same old tired content.

Flood the market with 100's of shit sites using the same content and the traffic will follow especially if you offer an affiliate program.

Regards,

Lee

so if you build a bunch of shitty sites (lets remember its 2004), with an affiliate program, traffic will just magically appear from webmasters and make you money?

what is it that gets the affiliates to choose you over the next affiliate program?

would it be the content your site offers by any chance?

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08-22-2004 #15

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Quote:

Originally posted by Yug@Aug 22 2004, 07:49 AM
But they aren't ... the industry is saturated by cookie cutter sites which are all about getting some horney guy to enter his credit card details to get access to non-specific members section, find something that generally resembles the girl he saw on the front, and then forget that he subscribed to that members section the next day.

Yug, are companies who build these type of sites becoming more or less successful in 2004?

Quote:

And thats why it all comes down to the bottom line really. Depending on how big or small a company you are. If you spend all your money on traffic to a cookie cutter website, you will still get people to join your site, and THEN you can then build up on an established members section that will sustain you long enough to create or improve upon your existing site.

So you guarantee that if you spend all of your money on traffic to send to a cookie cutter site that you will definately make some money? When was the last time you tried this and it actually worked? How much money would you have to spend on traffic (and what type should you buy) to generate enough members to 'sustain' the site and be able to afford to improve the site? keep in mind average retention on cookie cutter sites is 20-30% from trial to full monthly membership. Wouldn't it make more sense to spend half of the money on traffic and half on content so you actually have a chance of recurring members?

Quote:

However, if you spend all your resources on creating a unique site, buying custom content, etc, and you have no traffic, then you have shot yourself in the foot.

Really? Let me use Little April, as an example but there's 100's of others proving you wrong every day ... they spent their money developing content, and as a result affiliates can't get enough of promoting it (ie, risk free traffic, no financial outlay unless there's income) and surfers TELL EACH OTHER ABOUT IT - ie, free traffic.

Quote:

Thats why i would choose #2 ... I would rather a shit site with really good traffic, because i could build upon that site, improve it, expand upon it, while it is generating an income.

What income? You are assuming the members who signed up from your 'good traffic' are going to stay members ... but why would they, you have crap content!

Good content promotes itself - and that is a FACT. 'Really good' traffic is NOT guaranteed to make you money these days ... but the industry as a whole is having a lot of trouble letting go of the old business principals. It seems obvious to me, when something isnt working anymore - CHANGE IT! Why is it so hard for us as an industry to think outside the box? Its not that hard ... just copy what mainstream does!

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08-22-2004 #16

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Quote:

Wouldn't it make more sense to spend half of the money on traffic and half on content so you actually have a chance of recurring members?

Absolutely. All the counter-points you make are good ones. But when you pose the question as a 'one or the other', I would still choose traffic. Perhaps I am approaching this from a different perspective. Im not viewing it as an existing affiliate program with existing webmasters, other sites, etc. Im viewing it from a purely 'start from scratch' view.

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08-22-2004 #17

Lee

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Quote:

Originally posted by cj@Aug 22 2004, 04:44 PM
so if you build a bunch of shitty sites (lets remember its 2004), with an affiliate program, traffic will just magically appear from webmasters and make you money?

what is it that gets the affiliates to choose you over the next affiliate program?

would it be the content your site offers by any chance?

CJ I see where you are going but no it wouldnt be the content offered.

What attracts affiliates in 'todays' adult industry is money, the amount of money they earn and the amount of money that program owners can throw away hand over fist for stupid 'parties' that serve nothing more than to get webmasters drunk, high and laid.

Of course, it also helps if you can do all the work for them to like offering them free hosted galleries, free sites, content, submission tools and the likes.

Todays webmasters mentality is so different even from 6 years ago when i joined, they want it all, they want it all now and, they dont want to have to work for it either.

Content is nothing when a webmaster in 'todays' industry signs up for an affiliate program, they look at the following..

1) How much they will make.
2) How often you get them drunk, high, laid.
3) How much of the work you will do for them.

It really IS that simple.

Regards,

Lee

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08-23-2004 #18

cj

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Quote:

Originally posted by Yug@Aug 22 2004, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Wouldn't it make more sense to spend half of the money on traffic and half on content so you actually have a chance of recurring members?

Absolutely. All the counter-points you make are good ones. But when you pose the question as a 'one or the other', I would still choose traffic. Perhaps I am approaching this from a different perspective. Im not viewing it as an existing affiliate program with existing webmasters, other sites, etc. Im viewing it from a purely 'start from scratch' view.

So am I ...

I thought we were talking about 'start from scratch' view all along

You are basing your choice on the incorrect theory that having traffic GUARANTEES you will make enough (or any!) money to pay for the next step ... it doesn't ...

What if you don't even have your own cookie cutter site but you have traffic? Of course there's plenty of solid, reliable affiliate programs in this industry with sites that match your traffic to chose from who will guarantee to pay you ... aren't there?! /sarcasm

Try to not look at the question as 'how can i get the quickest money' and look at it instead as 'how can i keep the money i make'.

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08-23-2004 #19

cj

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Quote:

Originally posted by Lee@Aug 22 2004, 10:37 PM
CJ I see where you are going but no it wouldnt be the content offered.

What attracts affiliates in 'todays' adult industry is money, the amount of money they earn and the amount of money that program owners can throw away hand over fist for stupid 'parties' that serve nothing more than to get webmasters drunk, high and laid.

So good quality sites that retain members because of content have nothing to do with making money?! And throwing parties that get webmasters drunk and laid gets you more webmaster traffic?!

Quote:

Of course, it also helps if you can do all the work for them to like offering them free hosted galleries, free sites, content, submission tools and the likes.

So ........ by offering webmasters content like sites and galleries, they'll be more likely to promote your sites through your affiliate program?

Which comes first then, the content or the traffic?

Quote:

Todays webmasters mentality is so different even from 6 years ago when i joined, they want it all, they want it all now and, they dont want to have to work for it either.

Yes ... webmasters want content & quality sites provided for them because traffic is so easy to generate, any college dropout can do it ... again, which comes first, content or traffic?

Quote:

Content is nothing when a webmaster in 'todays' industry signs up for an affiliate program, they look at the following..

1) How much they will make.
2) How often you get them drunk, high, laid.
3) How much of the work you will do for them.

Content is nothing when a webmaster choses a program?!?!!? what a load of rubbish!! The 100% reason why a webmaster choses to promote your site is your content ... your content IS your site, the design, the photos, the movies etc is ALL CONTENT. The other factors like payout etc are secondary - if your content is good, the webmaster will at least TEST your program.

1) How much they will make is based on the quality of your site, how well it converts and retains (even on PPS, if a program retains bad you don't get paid much per signup) and several other factors which revolve around the relationship between content and traffic ... NOT one or the other.

2) How often you get a webmaster drunk, high or laid has NOTHING to do with how much money they will make or how much they will make you. The webmasters who choose sponsors based on who provided the most beer are of no interest to me.

3) Again, How much of the work you will do for them means 'how much content will you develop for them' ... a site is content in itself, not just the pics that are published on it.

Everything you said supports my point even more ... traffic is EASY to get, good content & presentation of that content isn't as common. If you have good content and presentation, traffic will be attracted to your sites - this works for both webmasters AND surfers.

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08-23-2004 #20

Lee

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Quote:

And throwing parties that get webmasters drunk and laid gets you more webmaster traffic?!

It worked for Lightspeed didnt it?

Quote:

Which comes first then, the content or the traffic?

Traffic.. to the site, only when you have the traffic should you start offering those other tools. Also, dont confuse 'content' with 'exclusive content' there *IS* a difference as i am sure you are aware

Quote:

Yes ... webmasters want content & quality sites provided for them because traffic is so easy to generate, any college dropout can do it ... again, which comes first, content or traffic?

I really think you are wrong on this CJ go to ANY other webmaster forum out there and ask what an affiliate looks for in a sponsor.. i GUARANTEE you that content is way down on the list after FHGs and the likes.

Quote:

Content is nothing when a webmaster choses a program?!?!!? what a load of rubbish!! The 100% reason why a webmaster choses to promote your site is your content ... your content IS your site, the design, the photos, the movies etc is ALL CONTENT. The other factors like payout etc are secondary - if your content is good, the webmaster will at least TEST your program.

No they wont. What you are saying was true a few years ago, have you actually been to any of the webmaster forums lately to see the mentality of these 'affiliates'? What *WE* looked for in choosing an affiliate program ISNT what todays breed of 'adult' (i do use that term VERY lightly) webmaster looks for.

Quote:

1) How much they will make is based on the quality of your site, how well it converts and retains (even on PPS, if a program retains bad you don't get paid much per signup) and several other factors which revolve around the relationship between content and traffic ... NOT one or the other.

No it isnt, im sorry and really want you to know that im not tryiing to be argumentative for the sake of it. The 'content' used in a paysite is in no way indicative of what the payout levels will be. 99% of affiliate program owners decide on what their payouts are going to be before they even buy their first set of content today. I know its not the right way to go about things, you know its not the right way to go about things but the truth is, that is the truth.

Quote:

2) How often you get a webmaster drunk, high or laid has NOTHING to do with how much money they will make or how much they will make you. The webmasters who choose sponsors based on who provided the most beer are of no interest to me.

I never said it would reflect on how much money will be made but ultimately, todays breed of webmaster factors this in when choosing an affiliate program, again, it worked for Lightspeed.

I would agree with you to, webmasters that choose sponsors solely on how drunk the said sponsor gets them are of no interest to me either. I have enough problems with freeloading surfers on the web without having to wory about what a drunk freeloading webmaster is going to be doing on the other side of the fence.

Quote:

3) Again, How much of the work you will do for them means 'how much content will you develop for them' ... a site is content in itself, not just the pics that are published on it.

No it doesnt, again you are twisting my words, webmasters in todays adult industry do not WANT to work, they want the affiliate program to build their sites for them, host those sites for them and even provide them with traffic.

WE both know that content is more than just the images and stories utilized inside and outside the paysites unfortunately, the average webmaster of today doesnt LOL

If we as affiliate owners do not provide the tools for promotion, the hosting, the free sites, the free galleries, the submission services etc affiliates wont promote you. Again, it really is that simple.

Todays adult webmaster is a lazy mother fucker who wants everything, including the moon on a stick.

Quote:

Everything you said supports my point even more ... traffic is EASY to get, good content & presentation of that content isn't as common. If you have good content and presentation, traffic will be attracted to your sites - this works for both webmasters AND surfers.

Traffic and content are both easy to get there is no denying that but without traffic you cant afford to employ the content on your sites. Even if you make 100 exclusive shoot paysites, you still only have 100 exclusive custom shoot paysites until that traffic starts to flow and, until that traffic starts to flow you have nothing.

To get the traffic flowing you need to get the webmasters attention to get their attention you apparently have to throw lavish parties where they can get drunk, high and laid for free. Again look at Lightspeed, it worked for them.

In fact, didnt ARS jut recently go to only exclusive content on ther sites? I didnt see them out in force at the recent show.. could it be because their traffic levels have decreased? Things that make you go hmmm.....

Regards,

Lee

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08-23-2004 #21

cj

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Lee, read the whole thread, not just the bits you disagree with ... my points are based on this statement:

"traffic is king, content (exclusive and cookie cutter) has its place, but probably a few seats back from traffic, step-son of the king twice removed or something ... "

my point is that original, premium content is more valuable than traffic. 1 is easy to get, the other isn't.

>>WE both know that content is more than just the images and stories utilized inside and outside the paysites unfortunately, the average webmaster of today doesnt LOL

Did I say anything about webmasters KNOWING why they make certain choices?!?!

>>In fact, didnt ARS jut recently go to only exclusive content on ther sites? I didnt see them out in force at the recent show.. could it be because their traffic levels have decreased? Things that make you go hmmm.....

Maybe they went to exclusive content because they have enough traffic and have now realized the trick to making money from that traffic is having good content? Just a guess ...

So again ... which is more valuable, traffic or content?

Without content, shitty or premium, there is nowhere to send traffic. And before anyone says 'they'll send it somewhere else', the 'somewhere else' is still content ...

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08-23-2004 #22

Lee

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CJ,

Lets just agree to disagree i can see neither of us getting anywhere quick if we continue with this thread lol

Regards,

Lee

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08-23-2004 #23

cj

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Lee, I'm not even sure *what* you are disagreeing with ... but ok!

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08-19-2004	#4
GaryAlan Members I'm new! Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2	Depends on your market too. Traffic is king in all markets. No question of that. Exclusivity and community retain in the gay market. You can sell the cookie cutter sites well but if you want to retain members, exclusive content holds them. Gary-Alan __________________ Gay Wide Webmasters http://www.gaywidewebmasters.com

08-20-2004	#9
MaDalton 42 Join Date: May 2004 Location: GER/CZ Posts: 386	i'm glad that i have customers who like buying their exclusive stuff from me - and it seems to work good for them. But they already have tons of traffic. __________________ AmazingContent.com - exclusive & non-exclusive content production ICQ 319-146-475 - Skype madalton02826

08-19-2004	#1
marcus Members Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 33	How important is exclusive content to the success of a paysite? Would you release a site that didn't have exclusive content in it? Am I making a mistake if I only have purchased content in my paysite?

08-19-2004	#2
pushpills ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ The global leader in pay-per-view AEBN Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 3,460	I believe the owner of Silver "cookie cutter" Cash has made pleanty for himself. Exits and upsells upsells upsells (and shaving) are king. __________________ ...Almighty Content - Free feeds for your members area!... The internet is a great way to get on the net. -Bob Dole ...Remote Thumbs - Make your TGP work for you!...

08-19-2004	#3
Yug Members Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 308	The success of a paysite is dependant on traffic ... if you have no traffic, then your site will not be a success, simple as that ... traffic is king, content (exclusive and cookie cutter) has its place, but probably a few seats back from traffic, step-son of the king twice removed or something ... __________________ Life moves pretty fast. If you dont stop and look around once in awhile, you could miss it www.YugSTAR.com www.designbycode.com ICQ:41724219

08-20-2004	#6
Hell Puppy Fat Fucking Nobody Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 6,523	And psychology drives both. You've gotta understand the surfer. First off, regardless of the source of the traffic (mailer, SE, TGP, banner, etc), you gotta make the user click. And unless you're looking for "water" for the soup, you want to be filtering and match what he clicked to what you're trying to sell. The tour of a paysite is ALL about psychology, you gotta somehow entice the dude to crack that wallet to see what's on the other side. You gotta know what makes him tick to do that consistently successfully. I've never been able to sell things like gay sites for this reason, I dont know how to work the psychology because I find the idea of some dude's hairy asshole to be anything but erotic. Any gay sales I've ever had are simply a product of blind luck and volume.

08-21-2004	#12
Lee Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 539	#2 A shit site with really good traffic is still going to amount to a lot of $$$ Just look at 90% of the cookie cutter sites out there presently reusing the same old tired content. Flood the market with 100's of shit sites using the same content and the traffic will follow especially if you offer an affiliate program. Regards, Lee