The real way to defeat terrorism

OldJeff · 07-30-2004

http://www.discover.com/issues/jul-04/feat...thing-into-oil/

Make Oil as valuable as sea water and they could not finance a rowboat across the ocean

Rolo · 07-30-2004

The EROI is still many times better on oil, however if politicians directed massive resources to the renewable energy sector, then the different technologies behind could take off... creating local jobs in areas, which are currently loosing jobs to 3rd world countries, making the environment cleaner, and securing economy against a trouble world.

I wonder why politicians are stalling - if this was a weapon race or a race to the moon, then they would not wait for some private enterprise to build the first nuke or spaceship...

RawAlex · 07-30-2004

Most of the time, the "renewable energy" people forget to mention how much energy was required to make their product.

Gasahol is one of the better ones. Turning corn into fuel sounds like such a good idea. Problem is, the end resulting fuel has less BTUs of energy in it than it takes to make.

Electric cars are the same. Where do you think that electricity comes from? Unless you are in one of the few places in the US served by hydro electric power (a true renewable resource, because mother nature does the renewing) you are burning some kind of fossil fuel (or worse nuke power) to make the electricity to power the car. Worse, you are sending that power from the plant to the car over really long wires, which creates even more loss.

I am still waiting to see a green system - and nobody has done it yet.

Alex

Rolo · 07-30-2004

Quote:

The table shows that in nine months, a V80-2.0 MW offshore wind turbine has generated just as much electricity as is used on the turbine throughout its life cycle – from the extraction of the raw materials to final disposal.

http://www.vestas.com/miljoe_ny/uk/vindmoe...ibalance_uk.htm

I would say 9 months is a pretty good EROI, when the average wind turbine has a lifetime of 20+ years - thats 19 years and 3 months of FREE energy.

The technology is there - true it needs to get better, but that will only come with a demand, and politicians could create the demand.

Sharpie · 07-30-2004

Too many politicians are highly vested in oil, it is not in their best interest to push for alternatives.

07-30-2004	#2
Rolo Members Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Six Feet Under Posts: 2,150	The EROI is still many times better on oil, however if politicians directed massive resources to the renewable energy sector, then the different technologies behind could take off... creating local jobs in areas, which are currently loosing jobs to 3rd world countries, making the environment cleaner, and securing economy against a trouble world. I wonder why politicians are stalling - if this was a weapon race or a race to the moon, then they would not wait for some private enterprise to build the first nuke or spaceship... __________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man." ~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918

07-30-2004	#3
RawAlex Members $100 for every ImLive sign-up Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,036	Most of the time, the "renewable energy" people forget to mention how much energy was required to make their product. Gasahol is one of the better ones. Turning corn into fuel sounds like such a good idea. Problem is, the end resulting fuel has less BTUs of energy in it than it takes to make. Electric cars are the same. Where do you think that electricity comes from? Unless you are in one of the few places in the US served by hydro electric power (a true renewable resource, because mother nature does the renewing) you are burning some kind of fossil fuel (or worse nuke power) to make the electricity to power the car. Worse, you are sending that power from the plant to the car over really long wires, which creates even more loss. I am still waiting to see a green system - and nobody has done it yet. Alex __________________ Let's go to the edge of disaster Push the pedal and go a little faster Let's slam into a wall at ramming speed Let's go to the edge of a mountain Jump off and lets start countin' Hit the ground and tell me if it bleeds

07-30-2004	#1
OldJeff Cantankerous Loony Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 468	http://www.discover.com/issues/jul-04/feat...thing-into-oil/ Make Oil as valuable as sea water and they could not finance a rowboat across the ocean

07-30-2004	#5
Sharpie Members Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 747	Too many politicians are highly vested in oil, it is not in their best interest to push for alternatives.