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Berman dismissed the suggestion that this recent letter-writing campaign is a new tactic on Acacia's part to either increase licensing profits or partake in what many industry insiders are calling "double-dipping."
The idea of double-dipping is if the sponsor has paid Acacia and the affiliate has also paid Acacia. But according to Berman, Acacia only requires both the affiliate and the sponsor to pay for licenses if there is a separate infringing act in the use of Acacia's technology by one of the affiliate's sites that is streaming audio/video.
The breakdown for sponsors and affiliates who are unclear about whether or not they need to license from Acacia is confusing, but deals only with sites that are transmitting or receiving audio/video content.
According to Berman, if a webmaster has their own audio/video content that is accessed from their site, then plain and simply they need a license, whether they are a free site or a paysite and regardless of whether they send traffic to other Acacia licensees or not.
If that site doesn't have audio/video but sends traffic to a sponsor site that does have streaming media, but no license, then that site needs a license from Acacia. If that sponsor signs up with Acacia later on, then the affiliate does not have to pay royalties on the revenues received from the Acacia-licensed sponsor.
So according to them, we either take down links to every one (every sponsor, plugin provider, cams or movie sponsor, etc.) who has not settled with them, otherwise we are "contributors to infringement"?
Is there any legal basis in this seemingly smouldering pile of bull shit? (Seriously, would like an answer if anyone has one.) Or do they just make this up as they go along?
As far as I know, linking to something that links to something that links to something was thrown out in a variety of court cases years ago. Otherwise the Web would cease to exist as that is what it does. And the courts (of multiple countries) recognized this.
Maybe they should go after the consumers who watch the video as well.
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Considering the sailor's vocabulary I have at my disposal, it really means something when I say...
I have no words right now to express the level of disgust I feel for both Acacia and their agenda.
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Originally posted by Carrie@Oct 28 2003, 09:03 PM Considering the sailor's vocabulary I have at my disposal, it really means something when I say...
I have no words right now to express the level of disgust I feel for both Acacia and their agenda.
What about for those who settled early???
h34r:
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Originally posted by Hooper@Oct 28 2003, 09:05 PM i'm still not sure how i feel about those who have settled.
We are all waiting on pins and needles for you to figure out how you feel!!
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I got the letter 2 times
never said what domain
i called spoke to a dude
he said um, hmm,
took a few minutes and said
on callicox.com you hae, "watch calli's movies"
thats a link and they can bag me for it
fuck him
Originally posted by fatbaby@Oct 28 2003, 09:00 PM They are simply attempting to get the Webmaster to put pressure on Sponsors to 'settle' so that the webmaster is 'safe' from 'infringement'... divide and conquer...
Precisely, FatBaby! Couldn't have said it better!!
Quote:
This is pretty funny stuff..... Maybe they should go after the consumers who watch the video as well.
Mike, yeah, next thing you know Acacia will want every server log on the Net so they can find surfers who "go to sites that go to links that link to sites that go to sponsors who use video streams who ate the cat who chased the rat who all live in the house that Jack built."
They are simply trying to frighten as many people as possible in the hope of picking up some money. If the patent was worth a damn they would be pushing to get it into court.
They will extort as much non returnable license fees as they can, drag it out for as long as possible, then when the courts throw it out they will be $25,000,000 richer. Sound crazy? Wel that was what happened with V-Chip.
If more people asked Berman for Spike phone number he might get the message. YOU PICKED ON THE WRONG BUSINESS ARSEHOLE.
Yep ... this might be a board I can learn from.
It just might be a little more intellectual then GFY ...
[quietly reading]
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Why would you want to tell Acacia who your customers are - every month - month after month?
Originally posted by Paul Markham@Oct 29 2003, 04:21 AM They are simply trying to frighten as many people as possible in the hope of picking up some money. If the patent was worth a damn they would be pushing to get it into court.
They will extort as much non returnable license fees as they can, drag it out for as long as possible, then when the courts throw it out they will be $25,000,000 richer. Sound crazy? Wel that was what happened with V-Chip.
If more people asked Berman for Spike phone number he might get the message. YOU PICKED ON THE WRONG BUSINESS ARSEHOLE.
Doesn't sound crazy at all, Paul. Sounds like their strategy to a "T".
Notice, if a court suit overturns things with the sponsors and the video streaming folks, they do not get their money back.
Notice in Berman's article, he says webmasters will not be liable if they sign and then the sponsor they use sign. You don't see him say he'll then give webmasters back the money. He won't. They won't. They have zero intention of giving anything back no matter what way things come out. They are going to do exactly what you said, make as much as they can get and when they lose and out, they're ahead. of the game.
The three big companies who settled on the V-Chip and then it was overturned feel stupid as shit now and their money is gone and in Acacia's pocket and being used to fuel their intimidation fire.
One thing I disagree on, Paul. No one should phone them. That's tantamount to answering a spam email or opting out of spam only to get more of it. You're only admitting you got the letter, that they got it correct and (depending on where they got the info from to mail you) if they didn't have your phone number before, you've just given it to them (or, again, confirmed it for them.)
Maybe we should all build mainstream sites and link to a bunch of the Real One sites and glorify all the streaming video you can get there... and then bring our sites to Acacia's attention.
When you get a letter, call up Real Networks and let them know you're being accused of infringing for trying to help their company...
(Yeah I know, never mind. I just woke up.)
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Originally posted by Paul Markham@Oct 29 2003, 04:21 AM They will extort as much non returnable license fees as they can, drag it out for as long as possible, then when the courts throw it out they will be $25,000,000 richer. Sound crazy? Wel that was what happened with V-Chip.
And not to be redundant...but...
That is also what this same team did with Gemstar, but they took it into the billions across 10 years.....
Originally posted by Carrie@Oct 29 2003, 07:32 AM Maybe we should all build mainstream sites and link to a bunch of the Real One sites and glorify all the streaming video you can get there...
They are completely reaching. Out of the thousands of sites they attempted to license that ACTUALLY USE VIDEO, they got about 50 to sign and were all sweetheart deals.
Now they are so hard up, they have to blanket spam a bunch of webmasters that dont even use video.
To send that blindly out to thousands of people that dont even use video, some of which dont even have a website, is some type of fraud imo.
Also, that would pretty much be impossible to account for, getting a percent of money made from sponsors that havent signed a license. Me personally, when I do a deposit, I dont keep track of what every check is. If I make a $1,500 deposit, I enter it in quicken as income/affiliate programs. I dont mark down what each individual check is from. That takes too long, and with all the different corporate shells these companies use its hard to keep track of.
And they think they are going to spend hours of time going thru webmasters books that make less than 75k. It would be a total waste of time for them.
Originally posted by Paul Markham@Oct 29 2003, 04:21 AM They are simply trying to frighten as many people as possible in the hope of picking up some money. If the patent was worth a damn they would be pushing to get it into court.
They will extort as much non returnable license fees as they can, drag it out for as long as possible, then when the courts throw it out they will be $25,000,000 richer. Sound crazy? Wel that was what happened with V-Chip.
If more people asked Berman for Spike phone number he might get the message. YOU PICKED ON THE WRONG BUSINESS ARSEHOLE.
If their patent was rock solid they would not be going after a few stranglers in the porn industry! They would be going after major media operations and other companies. Time Warner, Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo.
What shows their hand to me is that in an eagerness to get good press ( to pump up stock??) they made deals with the top porn companies in the business ( not just only business).
By making aweetheart deals with companies like Hustler and Vivid they passed up millions of $$$s, and seek to make it up by going after individual webmasters.... many who don't have 2 nickles to run together.
The strategy makes NO sense, unless you are looking to raise money through stock valuation.....
OF course this is all my opinion..... I could be wrong!
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Why would you want to tell Acacia who your customers are - every month - month after month?
This redundant post edited because Pedo D@d got trigger happy.
Last edited by gonzo at Oct 29 2003, 01:24 PM
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Why would you want to tell Acacia who your customers are - every month - month after month?
So Webmaster "A" license content (Content Contract) to Webmaster "B" which then sells content to the website visitor (End User Contract) ...sure looks like "double dipping" to me.
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Why would you want to tell Acacia who your customers are - every month - month after month?
Hey assfuckdad...(you like that better than pedo ?)... Did you not see the line right before your highlights...."For example, and by way of example only" ??
Both of those reference the preceding paragraph for what the rights granted by the license are.....
Lets say I lease plug in video feeds for my paysites
Acacia wants license fees from the Lease Plug In Video Content providing company
Also wants license fees from my company for linking to Lease Plug In Video Content
And then wants license fees from any and all websites that link to my paysites
Here's the topper - Acacia also wants fees from content provider companies if they have samples of the video they sell on their site
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Originally posted by sarettah@Oct 29 2003, 10:43 AM Hey assfuckdad...(you like that better than pedo ?)... Did you not see the line right before your highlights...."For example, and by way of example only" ??
Both of those reference the preceding paragraph for what the rights granted by the license are.....
Learn to read............
Gonzo...good pull.........
Exaclty ...
LEARN TO READ ...
They are TWO DIFFERENT CONTRACTS ...
I pose the question in reference to the Acacia topic thread,
that having two different contracts is "double dipping" IMO.
Bow to the power of a Master Blogger.
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Why would you want to tell Acacia who your customers are - every month - month after month?
Originally posted by Vick@Oct 29 2003, 10:45 AM Psssss .....
Actually it is a triple dip
Lets say I lease plug in video feeds for my paysites
Acacia wants license fees from the Lease Plug In Video Content providing company
Also wants license fees from my company for linking to Lease Plug In Video Content
And then wants license fees from any and all websites that link to my paysites
Here's the topper - Acacia also wants fees from content provider companies if they have samples of the video they sell on their site
Exactly ...
never thought of that angle ...
It's mass confusion ...
and they also have an "AVN" contract ...
brb ...
gone to find the link
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Why would you want to tell Acacia who your customers are - every month - month after month?
Originally posted by sarettah@Oct 29 2003, 01:43 PM Hey assfuckdad...(you like that better than pedo ?)... Did you not see the line right before your highlights...."For example, and by way of example only" ??
Both of those reference the preceding paragraph for what the rights granted by the license are.....
Learn to read............
Gonzo...good pull.........
Pedo D@D must be caught in a GFY bubble....put some gas in that Ice Cream truck there bubba. I hear Lens's page impressions are down.
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Originally posted by Carrie@Oct 29 2003, 01:51 PM Yeppers, quadruple-dipping is a very likely scenario considering the way this industry is structured and the wide use of plug-ins.
But ya know Berman got on the D$ show and promised they wouldn't double-dip, much less triple-dip... and we see now how good *that* promise was.
It wasnt D$'s fault....just ask him.
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Hey - ding dong Moderator ...
Why are you deleting the proof of two different contracts as posted on the ACACIA website of double dipping?
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Why would you want to tell Acacia who your customers are - every month - month after month?
Guys we are sending a double message here. In one thread we're telling Grogan that he's a low-life piece of shit because he did a one-liner accusing someone of CP and how that can ruin people's businesses and cause others not to speak to the accused again; while here we sit constantly replying to both an accused and a proven CP webmaster as if he should not be shunned. Speaking to him with nicknames like "assclown" is STILL speaking to him and acknowledging his existence.
We are showing folks like Grogan that accusing someone of CP really has no effect whatsoever to the accused and therefore isn't such a big deal after all to accuse someone of it; it's prime "joke" material.
Last edited by Carrie at Oct 29 2003, 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by sexeducation@Oct 29 2003, 01:56 PM Hey - ding dong Moderator ...
Why are you deleting the proof of two different contracts as posted on the ACACIA website of double dipping?
Hey Pedofile...
I got tired of editing your spam. The delete key is faster. Thanks for letting me practice with all of my new toys.
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"Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson
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Originally posted by Carrie@Oct 29 2003, 01:56 PM Guys we are sending a double message here. In one thread we're telling Grogan that he's a low-life piece of shit because he did a one-liner accusing someone of CP and how that can ruin people's businesses and cause others not to speak to the accused again; while here we sit constantly replying to both an accused and a proven CP webmaster as if he should not be shunned. Speaking to him with nicknames like "assclown" is STILL speaking to him and acknowledging his existence.
We are showing folks like Grogan that accusing someone of CP really has no effect whatsoever to the accused and therefore isn't such a big deal after all to accuse someone of it; it's prime "joke" material.
Grogan isnt a practicing pedophile...and that is one level above pedo D@D ...even in prison.
Look what happened to Jeffery Dahlmer.
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"The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
Originally posted by gonzo+Oct 29 2003, 10:58 AM-->
QUOTE (gonzo @ Oct 29 2003, 10:58 AM)
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Why would you want to tell Acacia who your customers are - every month - month after month?
See "SexEducation.com Pinn's Serge's Entire Joke Board"
on well ... I think you can guess ...
roflmao
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Why would you want to tell Acacia who your customers are - every month - month after month?
Originally posted by sexeducation@Oct 29 2003, 02:08 PM See "SexEducation.com Pinn's Serge's Entire Joke Board"
on well ... I think you can guess ...
roflmao
The kids dont want to see that...youd better offer em something better.
Haloween must be your most favoritest of all times....theyactually come up and ring your doorbell and ask you for candy.
Last edited by gonzo at Oct 29 2003, 02:13 PM
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"Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson
"The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
ANSWER THE QUESTION ...
OR DELETE ALL MY POSTS AND BAN ME ...
PRETTY FN CLEAR - ISN'T IT?
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Why would you want to tell Acacia who your customers are - every month - month after month?
Originally posted by gonzo+Oct 29 2003, 11:16 AM-->
QUOTE (gonzo @ Oct 29 2003, 11:16 AM)
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Why would you want to tell Acacia who your customers are - every month - month after month?
Originally posted by gonzo+Oct 29 2003, 12:04 PM-->
QUOTE (gonzo @ Oct 29 2003, 12:04 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by -sexeducation@Oct 29 2003, 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by -gonzo@Oct 29 2003, 11:16 AM
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Why would you want to tell Acacia who your customers are - every month - month after month?
Originally posted by fatbaby@Oct 28 2003, 06:00 PM They are simply attempting to get the Webmaster to put pressure on Sponsors to 'settle' so that the webmaster is 'safe' from 'infringement'...
Just out of curiousity, for my personal knowledge, what would be the difference between any affiliate and an affiliate program vs. a client and a content provider?
What I mean by this is...and if I am understanding it correctly...is that they are saying any affiliate (webmaster of said affiliate program) that sends traffic only to an affiliate program that has paid fees for the usage of such "patent" is not liable for any fees or can not be held accountable for any infringement.
Now with this said, what would be the difference if a client (purchaser of said leased products) that purchases only from a content provider that has paid fees for the usage of such "patent".
Why would the client be liable? It is the same situation as an affiliate right?
Thoughts? Ideas?
*By the way, I don't own any sites so sending me a letter won't accomplish anything. Oh wait...to late
Last edited by Tonda_WEGCash at Oct 29 2003, 05:30 PM
10-28-2003
h34r:
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