Real Player Or Windows Media

Dianna Vesta · 11-12-2002

Do you stream video and or audio?

What format do you use? Real or WMV? Why?

With handhelds becoming so popular, do you think windows media is better?

What do you think customer prefer more?

Almighty Colin · 11-12-2002

What is "Windows"?

From the Linux box ...

Mutt · 11-12-2002

WindowsMedia. Surfers hate RealVideo. Plus Windows Media Player comes with WindowsXP so you know everybody already has the player. No brainer.

Dianna Vesta · 11-12-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin@Nov 12 2002, 09:33 AM
What is "Windows"?

From the Linux box ...

Huh? are you saying windows media from a linux box?

Edd · 11-12-2002

Avoid Real like the PLAGUE! it is spyware, adware and nagware all rolled into one - it takes your system over, even WORSE than quicktime, and fucks everything up. Personally, I REFUSE to install it on a computer. If a website requires realplayer for anything, I stop going to that site - they lose my clicks. :grrr:

Mike AI · 11-12-2002

Edd is correct - real player is nothing buy a peice of shit that will cause more problems on your computer then anything else. They suck ass!!

Rox · 11-12-2002

Speaking as a multimedia producer, between the two formats, I've got to pick Windows Media. Real sucks ass.

But gods-honest-truth, QuickTime is better than both of them. It plays on any system, the quality's much better and you can do more with the files. Windows is catching up, I think, but day in and day out I make video clips and the QT files are always superior to those of Windows or Real.

Edd · 11-12-2002

Rox - you're right about the QT quality.... but QT is nagware from hell if you only use the free version - its CONSTANTLY asking me to "upgrade" to the pay version for better features, ect. - and I don't think that is necessary...

Mutt · 11-12-2002

i don't get the nagging with QT. The quality is great. But the drawback is that it is a download for many people. Almost everybody has Media Player already installed.

And Quicktime's streaming server sucks, it never seems to work for me, always buffering and dropping frames.

art · 11-12-2002

Can anyone tell me: do you need any special software to stream WMV on your site? Or can you just put it up as any other file?

Greetings,

Art

Cleo · 11-12-2002

I prefer Quicktime since it's free and works great. It's also easy to prevent hot linking unlike other formats.

I think you are talking about broadcasting movies, but on the subject of live steaming I just set up live streaming for Luna on her paysite using this software,
http://www.nuspectra.com/products/sitecam/index.htm
Seems to work real well and if her memberships grows beyond what her ADSL will handle they have a server that rebroadcasts her feed for a $1000. that should handle just about anything.

*KK* · 11-12-2002

Windows Media. At some point MS is bound to make it impossible to protect your content unless you are using the WM format. Probably by the mid spring...

Mutt · 11-12-2002

art you can embed a WindowsMedia video file into a webpage and if the surfer has a fast connection it will stream off any web server meaning you don't need a special Windows Media server dedicated to providing real streaming. The OxCash and RKMedia sites don't have streaming media servers, just plain old html pages with wmv files embedded in them.

I think it's kinda cheesey, lord knows they are making enough money to have dedicated streaming servers.

When Windows Media first came out it was impossible to protect your streaming server from anybody who found out its address. Now there are ways to keep them out.

11-12-2002

Windows Media is the best platform for streaming media right now. I agree that Real is too instrusive and "hijacks" your machine. It shows that they are getting really desperate in their fight against WM. The only problem that I've had with Windows Media is a lack of good security software for protecting the streams. Instead of using a referral authentication system like Real does, WM requires you to use Digital Rights Management which can be a real bitch to implement especially if you are working with a large quantity of files. After looking around for better solutions, we ended up creating our own customized security solution for WM and it has worked like a charm.

*KK* · 11-13-2002

E-Randy -- there is a company called speedera.com that does some similar products to Akamai (similar enough at least they are fighting each other in court) -- and they have a very reasonable authentication system for WM -- I have no clue the tech issues with it, but it does work quite well -- if you ever want to demo it, lmk and I'll give the guys name that we deal with to you --

RawAlex · 11-13-2002

I think that whatever Microsoft is behind is likely to be at least PART of the long term solution.

We are right now on the leading edge of "movies on demand" via the net... possibly to a TiVO style device for viewing. Good quality Windows Media files pretty much can be blown up to a decent screen size now and still be enjoyable, I don't expect it to take many more jumps in quality for it to become more than acceptible.

Anyone see a business model coming around the corner?

Alex (owner of latestmovies.com )

Hell Puppy · 11-13-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Mutt@Nov 12 2002, 01:07 PM
art you can embed a WindowsMedia video file into a webpage and if the surfer has a fast connection it will stream off any web server meaning you don't need a special Windows Media server dedicated to providing real streaming. The OxCash and RKMedia sites don't have streaming media servers, just plain old html pages with wmv files embedded in them.

I think it's kinda cheesey, lord knows they are making enough money to have dedicated streaming servers.

When Windows Media first came out it was impossible to protect your streaming server from anybody who found out its address. Now there are ways to keep them out.

Mutt,

Right. You can plop a wmv file into html, and it'll work. But at that point you're downloading a video file and playing it back just like an mpeg. You're not actually streaming.

There are lots of advantages to a streaming server on both sides. It'll adjust to the speed between the server and user. And unlike downloading, you can skip forward or backward without downloading the whole thing first.

The problem isn't really cost. You can get the microsoft MMS free. However, in this industry most of us are running Unix. Only game in town there is Real's Helix server which does cost a decent chunk. They've released it to open source though as of last month, so there might be some interesting stuff coming down the pipe.

Hooper · 11-13-2002

one word.

helix

it's from real networks... we're going to play with it and see how we like it.

Hell Puppy · 11-13-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Rox@Nov 12 2002, 10:14 AM
Speaking as a multimedia producer, between the two formats, I've got to pick Windows Media. Real sucks ass.

But gods-honest-truth, QuickTime is better than both of them. It plays on any system, the quality's much better and you can do more with the files. Windows is catching up, I think, but day in and day out I make video clips and the QT files are always superior to those of Windows or Real.

On the client side, I agree, Windows Media is probably the best all around choice. All of your windows users will have it.

QT by far has the best quality, but it requires a download. And worse yet, seems like everytime someone releases a movie trailer that I want to see, it wants me to upgrade again.

Real's player is dog doo.

However, their streaming server, Helix, is a pretty good solution. It'll run on Unix and you can stream mov, wmv or real media. I'm not aware of anything else that will do this.

Windows MMS has the advantage of being the only streaming server that offers true digital rights management. But as you'd suspect it only runs on a Windows server.

The Apple streaming server, whose name escapes me at the moment, is solid if you have someone who knows what they're doing to configure it and admin it. You dont see a lot of Mac's parked in ISP data centers. I can see it now....rack mounts available in pastel colors...

Hell Puppy · 11-13-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Hooper@Nov 13 2002, 11:06 PM
one word.

helix

it's from real networks... we're going to play with it and see how we like it.

Hooper,

How are you planning on securing and authenticating?

The one thing Helix is missing is DRM.

I've been looking at ways to do some video on demand, pay per view type deals and DRM is the achilles heal of most of the solutions out there.

You'd think it would be a natural for someone to have a nice canned VOD solution with DRM, ecommerce and everything built right in. Best I can tell something like Emu-live except oriented around high quality streaming doesn't yet exist. Emu and their java crap turns a great looking video into something that looks like you're watching a UHF channel.

Hooper · 11-14-2002

the apple server is called darwin and it does it's job but give apple credit.. cause darwin will run on any *nix box too.

DRM is the biggest problem out there.. most of the solutions i looked at were bloated and worthless when it came to real world applications...

we ended up writing our own in house.

Mutt · 11-14-2002

people seem to have found their own methods of protecting Windows Media streams. It looks to me that many people have a script which on the fly changes the names of the directories where the files are stored, so that bookmarking an address is useless. LBBV of NatNet posted he has a solution like that for NatNet clients on GFY. Seems to work pretty well.

As far as PPV Gamelink uses WindowsMedia, so they've obviously done something in house.

Homegrown Video i think has been using Windows Media for a long time and have their own solution for protecting streams.

Adult webmasters lead the way where streaming media is concerned.

I have noticed people using Speedara - Cashquest is using it and SIC -
not that i know how much Speedara charges for bandwidth/services but it seems like an expensive way to go when there are other ways to go about it invented by adult web companies.

Helix sounds interesting. Real Media servers are annoying, they require typing in your username and password every time you request a stream.

Dianna Vesta · 11-14-2002

Quote:

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Originally posted by Hell Puppy+Nov 13 2002, 11:04 PM-->
QUOTE (Hell Puppy @ Nov 13 2002, 11:04 PM)

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11-14-2002 #24

Dianna Vesta

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Quote:

Originally posted by Hooper@Nov 14 2002, 12:12 AM
the apple server is called darwin and it does it's job but give apple credit.. cause darwin will run on any *nix box too.

DRM is the biggest problem out there.. most of the solutions i looked at were bloated and worthless when it came to real world applications...

we ended up writing our own in house.

Hooper you wrote your own DRM solution for Windows media?

Do you also do live?

I'm looking at reselling live feeds and every solution I look at doesn't prove to be cost effective. If I resell to a company that provides pay per minute it means I get instant traffic but after you pay the talent and staff, you're down to nothing. BDSM & niche is more expensive to produce.

If I set up a studio and just sell the live feed it means I have to cover staff and talent cost until I have a good base.

I could also travel around and setup live cams in dungeons across the world and know tons of people who have contacted me to do so. If I had a backend billing solution with an upsell program I think this is the best bet.

I like Colin adn JR's business model but not sure if it would work for niche. I see the power of that in having two people on cam and taking request.

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11-12-2002	#5
Edd Members Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Deadwood, you Cocksucker! Posts: 833	Avoid Real like the PLAGUE! it is spyware, adware and nagware all rolled into one - it takes your system over, even WORSE than quicktime, and fucks everything up. Personally, I REFUSE to install it on a computer. If a website requires realplayer for anything, I stop going to that site - they lose my clicks. :grrr: __________________ You can't just cut the throat of every Cocksucker who's character it MIGHT improve!

11-12-2002	#6
Mike AI Administrator Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 11,618	Edd is correct - real player is nothing buy a peice of shit that will cause more problems on your computer then anything else. They suck ass!! __________________ Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!

11-12-2002	#7
Rox Members Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 323	Speaking as a multimedia producer, between the two formats, I've got to pick Windows Media. Real sucks ass. But gods-honest-truth, QuickTime is better than both of them. It plays on any system, the quality's much better and you can do more with the files. Windows is catching up, I think, but day in and day out I make video clips and the QT files are always superior to those of Windows or Real. __________________ Visit my blog: ObnoxiousBitch - Trash Talk Today

11-12-2002	#8
Edd Members Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Deadwood, you Cocksucker! Posts: 833	Rox - you're right about the QT quality.... but QT is nagware from hell if you only use the free version - its CONSTANTLY asking me to "upgrade" to the pay version for better features, ect. - and I don't think that is necessary... __________________ You can't just cut the throat of every Cocksucker who's character it MIGHT improve!

11-12-2002	#11
Cleo Omnipotent Ruler Of Perversion Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: SouthEast Florida Posts: 810	I prefer Quicktime since it's free and works great. It's also easy to prevent hot linking unlike other formats. I think you are talking about broadcasting movies, but on the subject of live steaming I just set up live streaming for Luna on her paysite using this software, http://www.nuspectra.com/products/sitecam/index.htm Seems to work real well and if her memberships grows beyond what her ADSL will handle they have a server that rebroadcasts her feed for a $1000. that should handle just about anything. __________________ Pimp My Tranny Neighbor Traffic Trades

11-12-2002	#1
Dianna Vesta Members Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: South Florida Posts: 2,087	Do you stream video and or audio? What format do you use? Real or WMV? Why? With handhelds becoming so popular, do you think windows media is better? What do you think customer prefer more? __________________ Live radio and audio downloads have a definite place in marketing and promoting products. Not only will it capture new customers but it is an excellent way to promote new products to existing customers continuing to build good customer relationships. Click here for more info

11-12-2002	#2
Almighty Colin Members Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,059	What is "Windows"? From the Linux box ... __________________ Almighty Content. Your one stop for live content. Secret Friends, LATINA Secret Friends , My Cam Friends

11-12-2002	#3
Mutt Members Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,087	WindowsMedia. Surfers hate RealVideo. Plus Windows Media Player comes with WindowsXP so you know everybody already has the player. No brainer.

11-12-2002	#10
art Members Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 107	Can anyone tell me: do you need any special software to stream WMV on your site? Or can you just put it up as any other file? Greetings, Art

11-12-2002	#12
KK Members Respin bullshit press Your Comments Are Welcomed Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,581	Windows Media. At some point MS is bound to make it impossible to protect your content unless you are using the WM format. Probably by the mid spring...

11-12-2002	#14
E-Randy Guest Posts: n/a	Windows Media is the best platform for streaming media right now. I agree that Real is too instrusive and "hijacks" your machine. It shows that they are getting really desperate in their fight against WM. The only problem that I've had with Windows Media is a lack of good security software for protecting the streams. Instead of using a referral authentication system like Real does, WM requires you to use Digital Rights Management which can be a real bitch to implement especially if you are working with a large quantity of files. After looking around for better solutions, we ended up creating our own customized security solution for WM and it has worked like a charm.

11-13-2002	#15
KK Members Respin bullshit press Your Comments Are Welcomed Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,581	E-Randy -- there is a company called speedera.com that does some similar products to Akamai (similar enough at least they are fighting each other in court) -- and they have a very reasonable authentication system for WM -- I have no clue the tech issues with it, but it does work quite well -- if you ever want to demo it, lmk and I'll give the guys name that we deal with to you --

11-13-2002	#16
RawAlex Members $100 for every ImLive sign-up Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,036	I think that whatever Microsoft is behind is likely to be at least PART of the long term solution. We are right now on the leading edge of "movies on demand" via the net... possibly to a TiVO style device for viewing. Good quality Windows Media files pretty much can be blown up to a decent screen size now and still be enjoyable, I don't expect it to take many more jumps in quality for it to become more than acceptible. Anyone see a business model coming around the corner? Alex (owner of latestmovies.com ) __________________ Let's go to the edge of disaster Push the pedal and go a little faster Let's slam into a wall at ramming speed Let's go to the edge of a mountain Jump off and lets start countin' Hit the ground and tell me if it bleeds

11-13-2002	#18
Hooper Members Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,156	one word. helix it's from real networks... we're going to play with it and see how we like it. __________________ Quickbuck is paying $100 Per trial join.

11-14-2002	#21
Hooper Members Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,156	the apple server is called darwin and it does it's job but give apple credit.. cause darwin will run on any *nix box too. DRM is the biggest problem out there.. most of the solutions i looked at were bloated and worthless when it came to real world applications... we ended up writing our own in house. __________________ Quickbuck is paying $100 Per trial join.