Is Nagin an idiot ? Or just stupid ?

[sarettah]

http://www.boston.com/news/weather/a...led_premature/

US relief leader says New Orleans not ready

NEW ORLEANS -- With Tropical Storm Rita headed for the Gulf of Mexico and some residents set to return to dry parts of the city today, the head of the federal relief effort continued yesterday to question Mayor C. Ray Nagin's timeline for reopening the city while some poor New Orleanians were starting to wonder how they would ever get back home.

Allen warned Nagin this weekend about tainted drinking water and other environmental contamination, Coast Guard officials said, giving the mayor test results that indicated biological and petroleum residue remained in once-flooded parts of the city.

Nagin, said Coast Guard officials, chose to ignore this. A spokesman for the mayor said Nagin stood behind a statement that said he was balancing safety concerns and the city's need to rebuild. Allen and Nagin were scheduled to meet today.

.................................................. ....................

[Winetalk.com]

darn...and how do you think Europe was rebuilt after the WW II?
Europe was in worse shape than NOLA, unexpoded ammo all over the places, land mines, and...
your right, they should have waited 'til at least 1970 before they started.

I back Nagin on his decission 100%

[Nickatilynx]

I too back Nagin on this.

However I strongly suspect that he will be opening the City for law suits down the line.

ie "I returned to the city as the mayor said we should return and rebuild and have since suffered from (blank) as a result of the toxins still remaining which the Mayor through his negligence forgot to advise me...yada yada"

[TheEnforcer]

I can understand his desire to get people back home asap but you gotta worry about all sorts of stuff while doing so. Like Nick said, lawsuits for one thing.

[justb]

They're a disorganized mess. They should at least get their emergency systems running again first. Right now they are leaving themselves open to more crime and violence.

[sarettah]

I appreciate the ambition behind Nagin's idea to repopulate quickly, however, he has already proved himself as an inept leader and I think he is best served at this point in time to defer to the professionals in handling emergencies.

If he manages to repopulate and everything turns out good, then he wins big, yes. If instead, folks move back in and get slammed by another storm this year or people start dying from multiple infectuous diseases then his ass is totally gone.

Big difference between this and post WWII. When rebuilding in Europe commenced, they knew the war was already over.


.

[Nickatilynx]

LOL....

Sarettah , really...lol

I mean...

"When rebuilding in Europe commenced, they knew the war was already over."

Yeah , they had it easy in comparision.They only had 5,000 cities fucked and what ,30 million dead to deal with.It was a peice of piss compared to rebuilding New Orleans.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

LOL....

Sarettah , really...lol

I mean...

"When rebuilding in Europe commenced, they knew the war was already over."

Yeah , they had it easy in comparision.They only had 5,000 cities fucked and what ,30 million dead to deal with.It was a peice of piss compared to rebuilding New Orleans.

Sheez, I didn't say it made it any easier. It was just more clearly established that they could commence with it without having to worry that someone was gonna start bombing the hell out of it as they went.

Going in and rebuilding and repopulating New Orleans right now is more akin to trying to build a nice new development in the middle of Mosul, Iraq then it is to the rebuilding of Europe.


.

[Peaches]

There's actually a storm headed to the gulf now that could give NOLA a fair amount of rain.

[Winetalk.com]

I posted it once on the wine board and I'll gladly do it again:

I enjoy tremendously the opinions of the people who had great expereince in:
running cities size of NOLA
dealing with natural disasters, evacuation plans, rebuilding cities
medical expertise

Please continue, as I know I'll learn more from the posters in this thread than from anybody else.

P.S. please include your qualifications for expert opinions rendered,
to give even MORE weight to your opinions.

[Nickatilynx]

""It was just more clearly established that they could commence with it without having to worry that someone was gonna start bombing the hell out of it as they went.""

You don't think the US and Britain were thinking "hmmm this might be the best shot we have at taking out Stalin" ?

[Weg Cory]

Originally Posted by Peaches

There's actually a storm headed to the gulf now that could give NOLA a fair amount of rain.

Do you know what the water temperature in The Gulf of Mexico is?

[sarettah]

And just to be accurate, the rebuilding of Europe did not start immediately after the end of the war. In fact the US waited more than 2 years (Marshall Plan, 1947) after the official end of the war in Europe in 1945 to produce an actual plan for their part in the reconstruction effort.

They waited until it was proven that Europe could NOT rebuild itself before jumping in and kick starting the process with an influx of cash.

.............

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by Weg Cory

Do you know what the water temperature in The Gulf of Mexico is?

87.1 in Grand Isle - why do you ask?

[Trev]

Originally Posted by Peaches

87.1 in Grand Isle - why do you ask?

I believe water temperature has a lot to do with the formation of hurricanes.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Winetalk.com

I posted it once on the wine board and I'll gladly do it again:

I enjoy tremendously the opinions of the people who had great expereince in:
running cities size of NOLA
dealing with natural disasters, evacuation plans, rebuilding cities
medical expertise

Please continue, as I know I'll learn more from the posters in this thread than from anybody else.

P.S. please include your qualifications for expert opinions rendered,
to give even MORE weight to your opinions.

Nagin has 3 years experience on me in running a city of any size. I put my qualifications out as a prior member of the military trained and with experience in disaster management, crisis control and crowd control. As far as my medical qualifications, I know how to give CPR which is probably a whole lot more than he does.

So his expert opinion is an opinion based on very limited experience in dealing with running a city (and from the number of folks in New Orleans govenrnment under investigation prior to Katrina it appears he wasn't doing a great job at it.) and pretty much zero experience in dealing with disaster management at any level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Nagin

Before his election, Nagin was a member of the Republican Party and had little political experience; he was a vice president and general manager at Cox Communications, a cable communications company and subsidiary of Cox Enterprises. Nagin did give contributions periodically to candidates, including President George W. Bush and former Republican U.S. Representative Billy Tauzin in 1999 and 2000, as well as to Democratic U.S. Senators John Breaux and J. Bennett Johnston earlier in the decade

[Weg Cory]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Nagin has 3 years experience on me in running a city of any size. I put my qualifications out as

You are a voter. You are already overqualified.

Peaches, I think a fair amount of rain anywhere over the gulf could result in a Hurricane.

[PornoDoggy]

Cory, I don't think hurricanes actually form in the Gulf ...

[Weg Cory]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

Cory, I don't think hurricanes actually form in the Gulf ...

They don't form per se, however, they thrive, prosper, ....

Go look at the infared radars this morning.

[Weg Cory]

[Red]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

Cory, I don't think hurricanes actually form in the Gulf ...

Right. They just hang around in the gulf building up strength.

[Weg Cory]

Originally Posted by Red

Right. They just hang around in the gulf building up strength.

Thanks.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally Posted by Weg Cory

They don't form per se, however, they thrive, prosper, ....

Go look at the infared radars this morning.

Yeah, been watching that one for a couple of days. Misread your post, I guess.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally Posted by sarettah

And just to be accurate, the rebuilding of Europe did not start immediately after the end of the war. In fact the US waited more than 2 years (Marshall Plan, 1947) after the official end of the war in Europe in 1945 to produce an actual plan for their part in the reconstruction effort.

They waited until it was proven that Europe could NOT rebuild itself before jumping in and kick starting the process with an influx of cash.

.............

Marshall Plan has nothing to do with rebuilding of Eastern Europe...which followed Stalin's plan.

Sare, how can you get your historical and geographical facts wrong?
Is your Europe ends at West Berlin?

[Rolo]

Originally Posted by sarettah

They waited until it was proven that Europe could NOT rebuild itself before jumping in and kick starting the process with an influx of cash.

.............

¨

I would not say "kick started"... Marshall Plan was "only" $100 billion in todays money, so the effectiveness was not great in europe, but it did help in the rebuild process, and in isolating the evil Soviets ;-)))

[Weg Cory]

We are an intellectually advanced species. We are also a passionate species.

I am more passionate than I am advanced.

Nothing wrong with that, however, you better be tough. Passion will take you to a lot of places, you just might not want to be in all of them once you arrive.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

Cory, I don't think hurricanes actually form in the Gulf ...

nice...now we have an expert meteorologist joining the fray...

Cory,
please tell more about rains and hurricaines formation correlations

[Weg Cory]

Originally Posted by Winetalk.com

nice...now we have an expert meteorologist joining the fray...

Cory,
please tell more about rains and hurricaines formation correlations

The water temperature in the gulf is currently conducive to accelerating a tropical storm into a hurricane. The city of New Orleans is currently not prepared to deal with a hurricane. The coastlines of Africa are prepared to deal tropical storms into the gulf.

I don't think that requires expertise.

I don't care if Nagin allows people to return. People are priviledged to the same information he is.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Weg Cory

We are an intellectually advanced species. We are also a passionate species.

I am more passionate than I am advanced.

Nothing wrong with that, however, you better be tough. Passion will take you to a lot of places, you just might not want to be in all of them once you arrive.

If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins. ~ Benjamin Franklin

Subdue your passion or it will subdue you.~ Horace

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

Cory, I don't think hurricanes actually form in the Gulf ...

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/HAW2/english/history.shtml

Look at:

Audrey '57
Camille '69
Agnes '72
Alicia '83
Alberto '94
Opal '95
Allison '01


So, while most Hurricanes do form in the Atlantic, there have been quite a few that have formed in the Gulf or real close to it.


.

[Weg Cory]

Originally Posted by sarettah

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/HAW2/english/history.shtml

Look at:

Audrey '57
Camille '69
Agnes '72
Alicia '83
Alberto '94
Opal '95
Allison '01


So, while most Hurricanes do form in the Atlantic, there have been quite a few that have formed in the Gulf or real close to it.


.

No?

This can't be accurate.

Now, lets go back to my original post: What is the water temperature in the Gulf right now?

I love a full-circle.

[Nickatilynx]

What makes us all experts ,Serge? Simple.."Google!"

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Winetalk.com

Marshall Plan has nothing to do with rebuilding of Eastern Europe...which followed Stalin's plan.

Sare, how can you get your historical and geographical facts wrong?
Is your Europe ends at West Berlin?

Well, shit, of course my Europe ends where Ivan begins. Public schools, cold war, what the hell would you expect. All those people on the eastern side were living in squalid conditions as virtual slaves waiting in bread lines and hiding from the KGB lest they get sent to the Gulag. They told me so in school


.

[Weg Cory]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

What makes us all experts ,Serge? Simple.."Google!"

Politicians are not experts, they are slaves to funding and voters.

[PornoDoggy]

I was wrong ...

Am I allowed to say that on a BBS?

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Weg Cory

Politicians are not experts, they are slaves to funding and voters.

Which of us is truly free? For food , water and our common needs we have all become dependent upon our slaves ~ Aristophanes































ok...I just made that up...but he might have said it....

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

I was wrong ...

Am I allowed to say that on a BBS?

Bush would be proud!!!

You admitted you were wrong , but you didn't apologise!

Well done!

[PornoDoggy]

Don't you have some emails to send?

[Weg Cory]

Everyone relax. The right wing "open the city" supporters will be along shortly to condemn it.

Their leader has spoken:

"The mayor -- you know, he's got this dream about having a city up and running, and we share that dream," Bush said. "But we also want to be realistic about some of the hurdles and obstacles that we all confront in repopulating New Orleans."

One of many concerns, Bush said, is that the city could face flooding again if another storm were to come along. The levees that broke could break again.

Tropical Storm Rita, churning toward the Florida Keys, could work its way through the Gulf and affect Louisiana, Bush said. (Watch Tropical Storm Rita sweep towards Gulf)

Now, he said the same thing I said. But I am no expert.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

Don't you have some emails to send?

Nope.....

These new fangled thingymebobs called computers do it all...and of course Technick.

My raison d'etre is to piss off Americans

yup...checked my notes...

1.) Remind Americans they have no knowledge of anything outside there borders , That they elected Bush twice , Most know fuck all about Geography , in fact they have a limited knowledge on most matters.
2.) Play poker ( take money from Americans , throw said money onto pile already accumulated and laugh like a bitch whilst screaming "I'm riiiich , beyatches!! ( - I actually do , do that , ask Anthony)
3.) Shop with wife for some non American products ( shoddy workmanship will fall apart and over priced)
4.) Check auctions for any works of art I may want to purchase ( No works by Americans)
5.) Cook dinner. Think I'll make Apple pie ( A Canadian desert)
6.) Watch TV..American channels and say how poor it is , then watch BBC TV.

Thats pretty much it for today.

[Weg Cory]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Nope.....

These new fangled thingymebobs called computers do it all...and of course Technick.

My raison d'etre is to piss off Americans

yup...checked my notes...

1.) Remind Americans they have no knowledge of anything outside there borders , That they elected Bush twice , Most know fuck all about Geography , in fact they have a limited knowledge on most matters.
2.) Play poker ( take money from Americans , throw said money onto pile already accumulated and laugh like a bitch whilst screaming "I'm riiiich , beyatches!! ( - I actually do , do that , ask Anthony)
3.) Shop with wife for some non American products ( shoddy workmanship will fall apart and over priced)
4.) Check auctions for any works of art I may want to purchase ( No works by Americans)
5.) Cook dinner. Think I'll make Apple pie ( A Canadian desert)
6.) Watch TV..American channels and say how poor it is , then watch BBC TV.

Thats pretty much it for today.

#1 is correct. Now allow me to become unpopular:

Americans grew up thinking that having an opinion makes you intelligent. They all have opinions about the world, yet, ask them to scan a copy of their passport stamps and see what the result is

[Winetalk.com]

Originally Posted by Weg Cory

#1 is correct. Now allow me to become unpopular:

Americans grew up thinking that having an opinion makes you intelligent. They all have opinions about the world, yet, ask them to scan a copy of their passport stamps and see what the result is

[Inabon]

Originally Posted by Winetalk.com

I posted it once on the wine board and I'll gladly do it again:

I enjoy tremendously the opinions of the people who had great expereince in:
running cities size of NOLA
dealing with natural disasters, evacuation plans, rebuilding cities
medical expertise

Please continue, as I know I'll learn more from the posters in this thread than from anybody else.

P.S. please include your qualifications for expert opinions rendered,
to give even MORE weight to your opinions.

well all i know is that if rita hits the gulf it will grow grow grow cause it is hot and unless some weird jetstream comes down she will head north. just where we will not know untill it hits. everyone pray it is not N.O. cause it wont be pretty.

[Nickatilynx]

Ask an American ( my personal fav's are the ones that claim Irish heritage , do the worse accent and have never been near the place and if the were to go would probably be found lying in a pool of there own blood on the floor like labret was) to point to Ireland on a map.....no fucking chance.

but then they cover there lack of intelligence with a big mouth...


(the same ones that won't see the set up here...)

;-)))

[Inabon]

Originally Posted by Weg Cory

No?

This can't be accurate.

Now, lets go back to my original post: What is the water temperature in the Gulf right now?

I love a full-circle.

i have to partially agree with you. this is accurate but not all of it. it is missing several storms including georges which messed up 3 islands and then hit usa.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Ask an American ( my personal fav's are the ones that claim Irish heritage , do the worse accent and have never been near the place and if the were to go would probably be found lying in a pool of there own blood on the floor like labret was) to point to Ireland on a map.....no fucking chance.

but then they cover there lack of intelligence with a big mouth...


(the same ones that won't see the set up here...)

;-)))

Hey now, I said I was HALF Irish - the other half Welsh. And I can find them both on a map with help from any 4th grader

[PornoDoggy]

Just a gawddamned minute here.

Did I read you right?

DID YOU ACTUALLY HAVE THE BALLS TO CLAIM THAT APPLE PIE WAS NOT AN AMERICAN DESERT?

You are a communist, aren't you? Jezuz gonna get you for that one ...

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Inabon

i have to partially agree with you. this is accurate but not all of it. it is missing several storms including georges which messed up 3 islands and then hit usa.

Inabon...hurricanes don't count unless lots of Americans are killed.



Example of BBC News...

220 killed by ferry in India
Over 6000 die in Rwanda
Airliner crashes in Russia , no survivors.

US news

Brittney Spears yadda yadda yadda
Some girl still missing in Aruba ( Ummm she's fucking dead) We are sure these kids did it , but that backward country , The Netherlands, say they have no evidence.

[WickedTemptress]

Originally Posted by sarettah

I appreciate the ambition behind Nagin's idea to repopulate quickly, however, he has already proved himself as an inept leader and I think he is best served at this point in time to defer to the professionals in handling emergencies.

If he manages to repopulate and everything turns out good, then he wins big, yes. If instead, folks move back in and get slammed by another storm this year or people start dying from multiple infectuous diseases then his ass is totally gone.

Big difference between this and post WWII. When rebuilding in Europe commenced, they knew the war was already over.


.

Speaking as a local, I can tell you that a lot of people in New Orleans think that Nagin is the best Mayer New Orleans has had in a very long time. It was him losing his cool on CNN that got the president to take more action and get a ground's eye view of the devastation(that I only got to hear part of on my battery powered radio, as I was still without power when it occurred.) I listened to many hours of phone calls from people(locals, of course) on the radio commenting on all sorts of things and, I don't believe I can recall one bad word said about Nagin. But, I can remember many phone calls of praise for him doing the things that he did.

He was actually out there HIMSELF taking care of the people in New Orleans that he could personally take care of... Trying to get them to safety.

I've listened to him bitching because there were "too many Generals trying to call the shots" and screwing things up...

I've listened to parish presidents and a Northshore senator CRYING and pleading for help over the radio... Venting their frustrations that no one was listening, that no one was sending help.

One parish president said that his own son called him, begging for food and gas and he couldn't even provide it to his own son, let alone all of the people under his parish...

This whole thing has really been unbelievably horrific in so many angles....

I think that Nagin has done a very good job considering all of the things he's had to deal with.

And, he cut the bullshit too. People are very appreciative for that... There were all of these officials trying to spin damage control all over the place, and he pushed politics aside and got real with everyone.

There was actually a radio guy that did an excellent job of not allowing damage control to be spun on his station... He would interview all of these officials on the radio and the minute they would stop being honest and start trying to spin damage control, he fought with them, yes FOUGHT with them over the radio... It was like nothing I had ever heard in my life...

But, back to the point...

I think he's trying to slowly start populating the city to try to start giving some people a sense of normalcy and the feel that things are starting to get better, that they are starting to progress. He's not letting everyone back... Right now, he's just letting the people that work in the city go back into the city to do so, and, not even all of them... Just some of them. (That's the last thing I heard on the local news...)

I don't think Nagin will take the water pollution lightly at all. I'm sure he'll make sure the people know that the water is contaminated and not useable... They'll just have to find other ways to have water for the things they'll need for now. That's what we were all doing before...

And, as for the hurricane coming... I definitely don't think Nagin will take that lightly either. I'm sure he'll be watching the storm very closely and if it looks like it is going to hit us again, I'm sure he'll make sure that those people are out of there before it hits.

On that note though... If another one hits us right now and especially if they think it's going to hit as a cat 4 like I heard, we will definitely be SERIOUSLY screwed... Even 40NW, like I am right now... There are still too many trees down... Too much debris laying around... So, I really hope it doesn't hit us because I just don't know what I'd do if we had to deal with another one so soon...

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

Just a gawddamned minute here.

Did I read you right?

DID YOU ACTUALLY HAVE THE BALLS TO CLAIM THAT APPLE PIE WAS NOT AN AMERICAN DESERT?

You are a communist, aren't you? Jezuz gonna get you for that one ...

sorry its Canadian , so is basketball...baseball is based on the old english game (played by girls) of rounders , and "Football" (spit) is a bastardised form of Rugby.

Don't worry , you are American , I didn't expect you know that.




;-)))