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Oddly enough your second question I just heard an answer to the other day Sergei
The first one, I dont think is January, I think its going to start next week.
I'm of the mind that there are more than a couple people over the limit and doing high numbers who are going to feel it in the pocketbook for the holidays.
__________________ Quick Buck"Value and buy domains not for what they did yesterday or today, but rather for what they can be built to do in the future."
__________________ Quick Buck"Value and buy domains not for what they did yesterday or today, but rather for what they can be built to do in the future."
Programs have to tighten up their watch on wm's that are trending on CB's.. I know several programs started a couple months ago, and got all sorts of grief for it... but... you have to watch your business carefully, and things that are going to cause your business problems or $$$ have to be dealt with.... period...
Originally posted by Peaches@Dec 4 2003, 12:43 PM It will be interesting to see which webmasters are canceled by the sponsors because the webmaster's charge back rate is high.
One of the big problems with resellers is what I'll term inadverdent fraud.
Guy is promoting a site or sites and he's doing his best to make a sale. He's not trying to cheat the program, but he's gotta eat.
So he maybe 'overmarkets' the site, then the surfer joins and figures out he ain't getting what he signed on for... and either gets a credit or a chargeback.
It's not deliberate fraud on the resellers part but it leads to problems for the program when its being done in mass quantity by the resellers...
Let's say, and this is a number out of thin air, that 15% of the resellers in any given program are 'overmarketing' the products. Depending on the volume of joins from these resellers, a program could land in hot water VERY quickly with the cb ratios allowable now.
Someone icq'd me yesterday about this very problem -- seems the reseller was promising a certain video that wasn't in the site...
More than one revshare program has been hit with reseller fraud of late as well, not a good sign, tho that is a deliberate defrauding of the program, not an accidental one as the case above illustrates.
Originally posted by *KK*@Dec 4 2003, 04:02 PM More than one revshare program has been hit with reseller fraud of late as well, not a good sign, tho that is a deliberate defrauding of the program, not an accidental one as the case above illustrates.
*nods*
The allowable CB ratios make it very easy for a company to put a competitor out of the processing business. Nasty stuff, and probably untraceable.
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Even with excellent customer service I wonder who can.
I hear rumors in the grape vine of options coming. It will be interesting to see what these are. My predictions are:
New payment options
Visa kicks serious ass then Mc/Visa announce they will not longer do subscription billing online.
By the end of next year it will be prepaid porn which will now prompt the government to handle legal age requirements differently imposing more laws.
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I don't particularly think exclusive content plays the role it did even a year ago in the chargeback scenario.
Surfers are smarter, they are greedy, and in about the same percentages as resellers and program owners.
The system is simply flawed the way it is. I'm sure there will be a market correction coming down the pipe, and there will be plenty of opportunities for those that are paying attention.
Originally posted by *KK*@Dec 4 2003, 01:40 PM I don't particularly think exclusive content plays the role it did even a year ago in the chargeback scenario.
That's what I said in my post, it doesnt have any effect really.
The bottom line is STILL if the surfer is pleased or not.
I have been in an average of 3-5 member sections a week for over 2 years straight now, have passes to more than i could log into in one day, and some are nothing but total crap, UPSELLS UPSELLS UPSELLS.
Originally posted by Fletch XXX@Dec 4 2003, 04:45 PM IN addition, Ill say the best sites I have been in, and the ones with the most content, exclusive or not.
Originally posted by *KK*@Dec 4 2003, 05:02 PM Well Fletch, what do you do with all those surfers that cancel before they ever log in? They may be happy with what they get but they're done already.
And the surfers who will chargeback and get credits no matter what the site has?
Is this a leading question to be answered....
Accept Epassporte?
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I HAVE seen someone put up a 'WARNING' link near the 'CANCEL YOUR MEMBERSHIP' link that went a page straight up saying, 'look we know some of you bastards will charge this back and claim you never logged in. we keep detailed records of your ip and timestamp all your accesses, so if you try and fraud us we will prove to your credit card company you are frauding them'
I've been scratching my head for years wondering why people even buy memberships when you can either get so much free content or get passwords to most any site.
You don't have to go out and spend money to see what's behind member sections just go into any of the big password sites and you'll find a way into lots of the large sponsors and most of the smaller sites.
You won't be impressed by many nor would you be inclined to return to many again. Its all the same every site you go with the exception of a couple that focus on really specific niches. Like fuckingmachines.com. That's got a good members section and its updated often. But that's very rare.
And let's face it most people are here with the get rich quick hit and run attitude, not let's build a solid customer based business and spend a fortune on content. The economics really don't facilitate that for most sites anyway.
__________________ Quick Buck"Value and buy domains not for what they did yesterday or today, but rather for what they can be built to do in the future."
Originally posted by Fletch XXX@Dec 4 2003, 05:30 PM I know trial abusers do it, old trick. 3 day trial, kill it on day one, still have days to play.
Membership, and subscription abusers have been around forever.
IMO Anywhere from 40-60% of paysite customers these days are trial abusers ... As opposed to maybe 5 - 10% 2 years ago ..
Quote:
I HAVE seen someone put up a 'WARNING' link near the 'CANCEL YOUR MEMBERSHIP' link that went a page straight up saying, 'look we know some of you bastards will charge this back and claim you never logged in. we keep detailed records of your ip and timestamp all your accesses, so if you try and fraud us we will prove to your credit card company you are frauding them'
or something like that.
who knows, maybe it worked!
It does, it has a really noticable effect on chargebacks ... it is also good to point out to the subscriber that a chargeback will result in their card being added to a negative database which will prevent them from ever buying anything on the internet ever again .... (enough people believe it!)
Cherry, you might be onto something with the 'men don't like commitment' thing LOL
I haven't updated my women's paysites since March & they still have as many rebills as my men's paysites which are updated ... er ... occasionally ...
Originally posted by cj@Dec 4 2003, 03:19 PM it is also good to point out to the subscriber that a chargeback will result in their card being added to a negative database which will prevent them from ever buying anything on the internet ever again .... (enough people believe it!)
Doesn't the online casino industry actually do that? Add credit cards to a blacklist db.
EVERY processor has its own negative db - consisting of chargebackers, chronic cancellers and the like -- quite frankly I'm glad they don't share, that would make a good case for collusion and competitive disadvantage, not to mention that if they were sharing card numbers between them for any reason you'd probably see Visa and MC dump them all.
A lot of companies use the calendar year for their fiscal year. If someone were being hit in a week from now, and knew they were going to keep getting hit ... or someone wasn't hit, but they can see it coming hard the next month and there after ... what a perfect time to close shop all nice and neatly but on December 31st, instead of opening up the books for '04 for just a few weeks or a couple months. (Not to mention why go to Vegas a few days later.)
I think that's the basis of the January Theory. At least that's the basis of it as I see it.
Originally posted by *KK*@Dec 4 2003, 06:51 PM EVERY processor has its own negative db - consisting of chargebackers, chronic cancellers and the like -- quite frankly I'm glad they don't share, that would make a good case for collusion and competitive disadvantage, not to mention that if they were sharing card numbers between them for any reason you'd probably see Visa and MC dump them all.
Good point KK ....
I had always liked CCBill's 'vscrub' or whatever it was where you can use their scrub for your own merchant account ... they hang onto the card numbers but the merchant account still gets the protection.
Could somebody please fast forward to 2005? I'm so bored with processing :angry:
Originally posted by *KK*@Dec 4 2003, 03:15 PM Oddly enough your second question I just heard an answer to the other day Sergei
The first one, I dont think is January, I think its going to start next week.
I'm of the mind that there are more than a couple people over the limit and doing high numbers who are going to feel it in the pocketbook for the holidays.
gotta be Lensman...or why else would he kill my sig on his board?
Originally posted by *KK*@Dec 4 2003, 06:51 PM EVERY processor has its own negative db - consisting of chargebackers, chronic cancellers and the like -- quite frankly I'm glad they don't share, that would make a good case for collusion and competitive disadvantage, not to mention that if they were sharing card numbers between them for any reason you'd probably see Visa and MC dump them all.
Thats the way I saw it done.....
we scrubbed against our own database, if they were ok we sent them on to any of various processors....
lol...and if they bombed at a processor we sent them to another one and another and another and ...........
and if all else fails..... There is always Guatemala.........
Originally posted by Hooper@Dec 5 2003, 12:01 PM kk, what was/is the name of the company who maintains that shared negative database?
i think ibill used it.
wow, that's a blast from the past, and I can't remember off the top of my head... we didn't use it at CCBill since our fraud scrub was designed an entirely different way
12-04-2003
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