Morals and this industry

[Sin]

Originally Posted by selena

I'd like to be thought of as kind and nice and those things.

But I'm not those things, and I don't foresee a change, really.

Aha, that's the answer there, in the 2nd line.

It's good to be "thought of" as nice, when you're not actually nice.

[selena]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Why the fuck do you want to be thought of as "nice"?

Have you been programmed to lose?

Because it's easier to get what I want that way, I think is the reason.

Without going in to analysis over it, I would say that is likely the answer.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Sin

I've had it as my life goal for a few years now to be thought of as "formidable"

You are a woman.

Its a mans world.

Best you can strive for is "a bitch"

;-)))

[Vick]

Don't need to and haven't read more than the first 4-5 posts in this thread

Serge gave amazing advice

Nick has long said we all have the morals we can afford

Put the two together and make the most $ you can


If need be ask yourself who's Xmas is more important, your's and your families or some clients who you have no ties to?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Jesus if a few words on a message board can earn your respect...damn!!!!

Anthony knows what I'm thinking....lol

;-))

Broken Jaw?

aaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaahahahaha

[Sin]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

You are a woman.

Its a mans world.

Best you can strive for is "a bitch"

;-)))

That would be true, if I thought like a woman, except I can't stand most women out there, and made it a point to think as much like a man as possible my whole life, (ie rational, reasonable, logical)

The result is that most out there consider me a bitch, and if I simply settled for "bitch" it would hold me back from obtaining what I know I can achieve, so I had to finely hone my "lady" skills because there are some extreme advantages to be had when one is approachable instead of simply "terrifying"

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Vick

If need be ask yourself who's Xmas is more important, your's and your families or some clients who you have no ties to?

BINGO!!!

Again sage advice from Serge "Are they your friend? Are they your family? No? Then fuck them"

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by selena

I'd like to be thought of as kind and nice and those things.

I wanted the name "Morgan Grayson," which isn't my own, to be associated with being "kind and nice," too.

Unfortunately, it was a "nice kind of idiot" that evolved.

"Certain people" (who are currently doing "The Highlander") attempted to explain to me that "nice" meant "weak" in this world. Well, they were right. Very, very right.

Back in the day, I owned a pretty little link site...and I never one time asked the owner of a successful link site how to run the damned thing to make MONEY. It wasn't that I didn't know any. I knew a ton of them. First real name basis and everything. I got a few tidbits of advice, but nothing like what I would have gotten if I'd overcome my "you don't take advantage of friends by asking them questions" bullshit and drained their brains.

I'm currently building another linksite and have the owner of a very successful, money making linksite on speed dial. Am I using him? Sure. Is he using me right back? Of course. What's he getting? I'm funny and fun to yack at and I break up his day. And, by teaching me, he learns, too. It's a nice symbiotic relationship. (The guy is an absolute doll and makes me long for my phone sex days, frankly.)

Back in the day I got invaluable advice on many things that I didn't follow. I can list "reasons," and "excuses" but it all boils down to one word. "Failure."

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Sin

That would be true, if I thought like a woman, except I can't stand most women out there, and made it a point to think as much like a man as possible my whole life, (ie rational, reasonable, logical)

The result is that most out there consider me a bitch, and if I simply settled for "bitch" it would hold me back from obtaining what I know I can achieve, so I had to finely hone my "lady" skills because there are some extreme advantages to be had when one is approachable instead of simply "terrifying"

bottomline...you are sitting on a fortune... ;-)))

use it

[Sin]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Jesus if a few words on a message board can earn your respect...damn!!!!

Anthony knows what I'm thinking....lol

;-))

Not fully, but enough that I'd consider leaving my bedroom & venturing over to Van to find out more.

I prefer not to associate with most people out there, most people aren't worth the time of day. (Keep in mind I live on the island)

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Sin

That would be true, if I thought like a woman, except I can't stand most women out there, and made it a point to think as much like a man as possible my whole life, (ie rational, reasonable, logical)

The result is that most out there consider me a bitch, and if I simply settled for "bitch" it would hold me back from obtaining what I know I can achieve, so I had to finely hone my "lady" skills because there are some extreme advantages to be had when one is approachable instead of simply "terrifying"

My first day of Golf, I was given this advice by a rather smart looking individual with great taste in golf shoes.

"Use every possible rule and advantage you can to win."

It's worked for me over the years. You should try it out.

Golf mimics life.

[selena]

Originally Posted by Sin

Aha, that's the answer there, in the 2nd line.

It's good to be "thought of" as nice, when you're not actually nice.

Precisley.

I don't want to be nice, I don't have the luxury of that.

Reality vs illusion

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Broken Jaw?

aaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaahahahaha

indeed!

[Sin]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

bottomline...you are sitting on a fortune... ;-)))

use it

High praise... thank you.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by selena

Precisley.

I don't want to be nice, I don't have the luxury of that.

Reality vs illusion

Interesting.

I have been given the moniker, "Honest Anthony".

Cause I is!

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Anthony

My first day of Golf, I was given this advice by a rather smart looking individual with great taste in golf shoes.

"Use every possible rule and advantage you can to win."

It's worked for me over the years. You should try it out.

Golf mimics life.

Life is THE best game of all!!

[selena]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Interesting.

I have been given the moniker, "Honest Anthony".

Cause I is!

Honesty and morals are two different things in my book.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Interesting.

I have been given the moniker, "Honest Anthony".

Cause I is!

You are ..

[Sin]

Originally Posted by Anthony

My first day of Golf, I was given this advice by a rather smart looking individual with great taste in golf shoes.

"Use every possible rule and advantage you can to win."

It's worked for me over the years. You should try it out.

Golf mimics life.

That would be why I worked on my approachability & lady skills & continue to do so...

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Sin

That would be why I worked on my approachability & lady skills & continue to do so...

I have always said if I could do one thing over again online I'd have pretended to be a woman..

;-)))

Drugs ,alchohol and gambling are really bad addictions that make you do very stupid things...but the real dangerous addiction is pussy fever. ;-)))

[Sin]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Interesting.

I have been given the moniker, "Honest Anthony".

Cause I is!

Although I'm loathe to fall back on gender biases, men can get away with being purely 'honest.'

I'm honest too. Brutally so. Its part of why I decided to work on learning to be a lady, because if I was simply "honest" i'd be simply a bitch. I intend on being a lot more.

I wouldn't say "Reality vs Illusion" either though, reality is I am a lady, reality is I'm also honest. Reality is that most people out there can't handle that & find me very unsettling & unnerving as a result.

I'd say the key different is tact. There's honest, and simply blurting out the truth & leaving the other person horribly crushed & wounded feeling, (that's Bitch) and then there's honesty where the other person absorbs what you're telling them, acknowledges it as truth, and can't fault you in the slightest for making them feel the way they do, (the truth hurts) simply because of how you went about it. The latter, is formidable.

[Vick]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

BINGO!!!

Again sage advice from Serge "Are they your friend? Are they your family? No? Then fuck them"

In fact now that I think about it if we were close friends Ryan I'll be pissed and tell you that you are a fucking wanker for putting some nonsense before your own well being (and your families Xmas)

The people you do business with are still going to be there

How often do some rubes come along? Just lead them right, cash the checks and say next and what can I build, do for you next?

[Sin]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

I have always said if I could do one thing over again online I'd have pretended to be a woman..

;-)))

Drugs ,alchohol and gambling are really bad addictions that make you do very stupid things...but the real dangerous addiction is pussy fever. ;-)))

Learning my lady skills was one of the more difficult tasks, although I will admit it was made a lot easier by the lessons my mother taught me as a child.

[Anthony]

"Focker, Did I not fully explain the Circle of Trust?!"

[RyanLanane]

Some interesting posts. To be clear the situations were things like someone who wanted SEO and was willing to pay me $25 per hour for it. I told them I was knowledgable about it but didn't have a great deal of experience instead of saying "I know what I'm doing" and doing what I do know about SEO (very little, lol) for them... This lead to me being overly honest about my lack of knowledge.

The reason I did that is I have always thought about the clients I would lose in the future if I just plain and simple took the guy for 80 hours and did very little for him. If he happens to be the wrong person my name is out there as a blatant scammer in a matter of two weeks noone will do biz with me.

As far as how bad the X-Mas is... My mortgage payment is behind, bills are behind, and I an't get 'as nice' of presents as I would like to... but there will of course be a X-Mas for my daughter none the less. This is the first X-Mas in my life I have felt like this and I am about ready to just go out looking for some sucker to offer them the world and cash a quick check.

I understand what Nick is saying... my only argument against that is cut throat business is different then directly lying (and ripping off) customers. I guess in a sense it isn't ... Odd I give a shit as frustrated as I wake up every day lately...

[Sin]

Ryan you could've learned as you went however. Life is progressive.

[Sin]

Shit for $25 an hour, I definitely would've learned...

Don't underestimate yourself, you'll lose out if you look at yourself now and think "This is all I have to offer"

[Winetalk.com]

Originally Posted by DrGuile

Very few people believe in "Money over everything"... not you, not Sergei...

Nope, this is NOT about money, it's about EDUCATION and NOBODY should withdraw the educational lessons from ANYBODY-
to do that is...IMMORAL and SELFISH!

[DrGuile]

Originally Posted by Winetalk.com

Nope, this is NOT about money, it's about EDUCATION and NOBODY should withdraw the educational lessons from ANYBODY-
to do that is...IMMORAL and SELFISH!

You're an humanitarian!

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by RyanLanane

Some interesting posts. To be clear the situations were ...

Proximity to Nick must continue to rub off on me, because I stopped reading the post above right there where I cut it off.

Why? Because anything that was said after that was all excuses. Again, I say that without having read it. Also, I don't need anyone telling me I was right.

[sarettah]

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[Sin]

Originally Posted by Winetalk.com

Nope, this is NOT about money, it's about EDUCATION and NOBODY should withdraw the educational lessons from ANYBODY-
to do that is...IMMORAL and SELFISH!

Not just that but there's the education on SEO that he missed out on by turning down those offers.

Now he's not only out $8000 but the knowledge he potentially could've learned himself from doing the work.

[Newton]

Ryan .. no fucker is going to put food on your table for your family; you need to make that happen. In order it goes Family, Friends, People who owe you money

[sudden]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

better than having balls on the chin....

You should really stop teabagging random people, it's just not nice!

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sudden

You should really stop teabagging random people, it's just not nice!

Dear Sudden.

I would love to send you a wire. Please send me your wiring info.

Thank you.

Huggles.

[Sin]

Its amazing how this board works, you think you've read the thread, the someone like Sudden will quote something that you completely missed so you have to go back & re-read the thread until you find it, lol

[Winetalk.com]

Originally Posted by DrGuile

You're an humanitarian!

yes, I am and the biggest lesson I learned from my own family about humanity:
the more you do for them the more they fuck you in the ass and not in a good sense.

I bet the last drop of sweat on my balls that the guy whom Ryan turned down will call Ryan a moron, after he learns from somebody else.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

BINGO!!!

Again sage advice from Serge "Are they your friend? Are they your family? No? Then fuck them"

wiser Serge likes to add a small correction:

"Are they your friend? Are they your IMMEDIATE family*? No? Then fuck them and fuck them hard."

* - wife/husband/children

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Winetalk.com

wiser Serge likes to add a small correction:

"Are they your friend? Are they your IMMEDIATE family*? No? Then fuck them and fuck them hard."

* - wife/husband/children

"Men who know how to use asterisks do it better."

[Osiris]

I think in Ryans situation I would have done the honest thing. Why, because when it comes to business where you make a living providing a service, such as SEO and/or design you have to. If you don't, word DOES get around and people don't do business with you anymore. No business equals no money, period. I'd rather be honest and have some money, than be dishonest and have no money at all coming in.

Would you pay someone for SEO or design if you knew they had a reputation for being dishonest? My guess is you wouldn't.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Osiris

I think in Ryans situation I would have done the honest thing. Why, because when it comes to business where you make a living providing a service, such as SEO and/or design you have to. If you don't, word DOES get around and people don't do business with you anymore. No business equals no money, period. I'd rather be honest and have some money, than be dishonest and have no money at all coming in.

Would you pay someone for SEO or design if you knew they had a reputation for being dishonest? My guess is you wouldn't.

I would never pay anyone for SEO...

Anyone worth his salt should be making so much money himself freelance he doesn't need to hire himself out at $25.



LOL

[sudden]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

I would never pay anyone for SEO...

Anyone worth his salt should be making so much money himself freelance he doesn't need to hire himself out at $25.

LOL

I'll hire my SEO skills out to you for $25.











(It'll only get you a minute or two worth of work, but... ))

[sudden]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Dear Sudden.

I would love to send you a wire. Please send me your wiring info.

Thank you.

Huggles.

Hit me up

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by sudden

I'll hire my SEO skills out to you for $25.

(It'll only get you a minute or two worth of work, but... ))

For you..it might be money well spent.. ;-)))

I'll buy you a good dinner and pick yr mind instead ;-))

[Vick]

Ryan - you could have been learning on their dime

What more could you ask for?

SEO opt, read some, reverse engineer a little and then tell them it takes a few weeks to see the results
Nothing could have been worse than the so called SEO Guru's that made the rounds in years past
They (he) really couldn't produce results so they (he) went around selling himself as an expert


You know years back Billy Idol decided he wanted to become an Idol and did so by naming himself one (well that, some talent and a cool guitar player named Steve Stephens)

[Osiris]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

I would never pay anyone for SEO...

Anyone worth his salt should be making so much money himself freelance he doesn't need to hire himself out at $25.



LOL

True, the ones that know how to work the engines shouldn't have to hire themselves out, and they wouldn't be having a bad christmas either.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Vick

Ryan - you could have been learning on their dime

What more could you ask for?

SEO opt, read some, reverse engineer a little and then tell them it takes a few weeks to see the results
Nothing could have been worse than the so called SEO Guru's that made the rounds in years past
They (he) really couldn't produce results so they (he) went around selling himself as an expert


You know years back Billy Idol decided he wanted to become an Idol and did so by naming himself one (well that, some talent and a cool guitar player named Steve Stephens)

And SEGuru did the same!!!!!

Well minus any talent and totally lacking anything cool

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[Red]

Originally Posted by Vick

Ryan - you could have been learning on their dime

What more could you ask for?

Absolutely.

Ryan,
There's nothing wrong with making a moral decision, but I think your problem was one of ethics, not morality. IMHO, you have a moral imperative to care for your for your family. You said that the mortgage and bills were piling up. There would have been nothing immoral about taking the job. Especially since you know a little and you could have learned while you earned.

[sarettah]

I have done plenty of projects on a learn as you go basis. I usually try to keep some track of how much time I did that was not actual design or code work and I just don't charge for that time.

No moral or ethical dilemna there imho.

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by Red

There's nothing wrong with making a moral decision.

Exactly! It's having a conscience that's the problem!