Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....

[sarettah]

Sorry bout that, but it is.

We are no different than anything else in nature.

We are born and we die.

Beginning of it and end of it. Period.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Sorry bout that, but it is.

We are no different than anything else in nature.

We are born and we die.

Beginning of it and end of it. Period.

It must be shit being old and having no hope of anything after this.

[Newton]

You just need a big ol hug from Dravyk don't ya

[Sysprod]

All that hippy stuff must have gotten to him...

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Trev

It must be shit being old and having no hope of anything after this.

lololololololololololol...........

It is the hope of something more afterwards that keeps you tied down. The realization that "This is it" is freedom

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Newton

You just need a big ol hug from Dravyk don't ya

Ok, you have now convinced me that there is a hell

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Sysprod

All that hippy stuff must have gotten to him...

I hate fucking hippies


Or is that herpes ? I always get those two confused

[Red]

Originally Posted by sarettah

lololololololololololol...........

It is the hope of something more afterwards that keeps you tied down. The realization that "This is it" is freedom

I don't think it's hope of something afterwards, it just makes sense that there is an afterlife. Look at it this way,
the body is made up of chemical and electrical energy.
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, just transformed.
Anyone that has had someone die in their arms, knows the feeling of that energy leaving the body(some consider it the soul, I'm giving it scientific terms for those in doubt of spirituality)
So where does it go? Why not into another housing?

[Newton]

Like a pair of hippie sandals?

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Red

I don't think it's hope of something afterwards, it just makes sense that there is an afterlife. Look at it this way,
the body is made up of chemical and electrical energy.
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, just transformed.
Anyone that has had someone die in their arms, knows the feeling of that energy leaving the body(some consider it the soul, I'm giving it scientific terms for those in doubt of spirituality)
So where does it go? Why not into another housing?

All natural things have energy that is constantly being recycled. Those things in nature that we recognize as "living" go through a life cycle (birth-life-death). As we observe from the world around us, when a "living" thing dies and you put the living thing into the ground, it's chemicals, molecules, etc are absorbed thus passing the kinetic energy inherent in those particles into the soil where when/if it is picked up, it helps in the life cycle again.

There is no reason to suspect that "WE" still exist within that energy. "WE" are a structure of thoughts/memories/whatever stored within the cells of our brains. When those cells die (or enough of those cells die) "WE" cease to exist.

The energy continues, "WE" do not.

[Timon]

Did you run out of thread topics?

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Trev

It must be shit being old and having no hope of anything after this.

Why is it that someone assumes that because you don't believe in an afterlife that it must bug you somehow?

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Timon

Did you run out of thread topics?

lolol..Nopers. I wanted to post it yesterday in Nick's thread about the church stuff but didn't want to hijack the thread

[PornoDoggy]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

Why is it that someone assumes that because you don't believe in an afterlife that it must bug you somehow?

What does belief in an afterlife have to do with spirituality?

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by sarettah

All natural things have energy that is constantly being recycled. Those things in nature that we recognize as "living" go through a life cycle (birth-life-death). As we observe from the world around us, when a "living" thing dies and you put the living thing into the ground, it's chemicals, molecules, etc are absorbed thus passing the kinetic energy inherent in those particles into the soil where when/if it is picked up, it helps in the life cycle again.

There is no reason to suspect that "WE" still exist within that energy. "WE" are a structure of thoughts/memories/whatever stored within the cells of our brains. When those cells die (or enough of those cells die) "WE" cease to exist.

The energy continues, "WE" do not.

[Nickatilynx]

Once you have kids ,TE, you will believe there is an afterlife.Deperately and passionately.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

Why is it that someone assumes that because you don't believe in an afterlife that it must bug you somehow?

I didn't say it was bugging him. I said it must be shit.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Once you have kids ,TE, you will believe there is an afterlife.Deperately and passionately.

Once you have a child that dies, believing in the afterlife is one of the few things that keeps you going.

[Newton]

I truthfuly believe you will meet your friends and family in an afterlife, some ethereal plain, and its important to have that faith.

[Timon]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Once you have kids ,TE, you will believe there is an afterlife.Deperately and passionately.

Let's hope it's not like in the bible because you and I are so not going to heaven

[Trev]

Originally Posted by Timon

Let's hope it's not like in the bible because you and I are so not going to heaven

Confess and have your sins forgiven

[sarettah]

Believeing in something, no matter how much solace it provides, does not make it true.

And I do not necessarilly prescribe to the notion that it is ok to believe what you want to believe.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Once you have a child that dies, believing in the afterlife is one of the few things that keeps you going.

Absolutely.

The thought actually crossed my mind as I posted.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Believeing in something, no matter how much solace it provides, does not make it true.

And I do not necessarilly prescribe to the notion that it is ok to believe what you want to believe.

Why not?

If you truly believe.....

The moon is green
Jennifer Aniston loves you
You have a huge dick and are the worlds greatest lover

And it hurts no one else, why the hell not believe it?

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Believeing in something, no matter how much solace it provides, does not make it true.

And I do not necessarilly prescribe to the notion that it is ok to believe what you want to believe.

Not believing in something doesn't mean it doesn't exist either so it seems like you DO prescribe to the notion that it's ok to believe what you want to believe

[MorganGrayson]

It's interesting to watch people debate topics that can't be proven either way.

The fervor of a "born again atheist" is as...interesting...as a "born again Christian."

I used "interesting" in lieu of "oh, for fuck's sake, don't you have anything to DO today?"

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

And it hurts no one else

Aye, there's the rub.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

What does belief in an afterlife have to do with spirituality?

Ask Trev, he's the one who said

It must be shit being old and having no hope of anything after this

[DrGuile]

I agree with Sar on this one. Dust to freakin' dust...

Also, I applaud Sar for the courage to post his convictions.

You were nothing before you were born, why would you be anything after you are dead? Depressing? Maybe... but also very driving and puts things in perspective...


Make the most of your life, this isnt a dress-rehearsal for the next one.

[Peaches]

I've always found it "interesting" see people tell others what they should and shouldn't believe in. It's like telling someone their tastes in women is wrong, their favorite color is wrong, they don't like the right kind of house, they don't love the right people, etc.

You are what you are

[DrGuile]

Originally Posted by Red

I don't think it's hope of something afterwards, it just makes sense that there is an afterlife. Look at it this way,
the body is made up of chemical and electrical energy.
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, just transformed.
Anyone that has had someone die in their arms, knows the feeling of that energy leaving the body(some consider it the soul, I'm giving it scientific terms for those in doubt of spirituality)
So where does it go? Why not into another housing?

That's scientific like Im a 40 year-old MILF.

Oh man, you probably got "signed up" in a few cults eh?

[Trev]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

Ask Trev, he's the one who said

I didn't mention spirituality at all. I'll ask again: DO YOU EVEN READ OPRANO!

[Trev]

Originally Posted by Peaches

I've always found it "interesting" see people tell others what they should and shouldn't believe in. It's like telling someone their tastes in women is wrong, their favorite color is wrong, they don't like the right kind of house, they don't love the right people, etc.

You are what you are

Exactly, each to their own.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Peaches

I've always found it "interesting" see people tell others what they should and shouldn't believe in. It's like telling someone their tastes in women is wrong, their favorite color is wrong, they don't like the right kind of house, they don't love the right people, etc.

You are what you are

Yeah , I used to be one of the most vocal on subjects like that. LOL

Now I have already achieved a form of heaven......

The ability to think "I don't give a fuck"...and say "Well good luck to them"

And mean both.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Peaches

I've always found it "interesting" see people tell others what they should and shouldn't believe in. It's like telling someone their tastes in women is wrong, their favorite color is wrong, they don't like the right kind of house, they don't love the right people, etc.

You are what you are

The good people of San Diego have been having a right holy war over a cross that's part of a memorial to WWII soldiers on Mount Soledad. The memorial is on state/local/something owned land, and the atheists group is up in arms over it violating the Constitution. Now, this is one of those many points where being right gets you nowhere. This happy Pagan is lucky: don't give a shit. The damn thing has been there forever, it was put up as a memorial, and frankly, I don't think we have enough of those.

My daughter was one of the six Goths (that's right, count 'em, six) in her high school who were pulled into the principals office to get chewed out for their attire. One of them was wearing an upside down pentacle, indicating her religious preference for Satanism. Now, rather than do what any adult who'd actually *met* a teenager before would have done, which is say "how 'bout you drop that puppy inside your shirt and knock of the deliberate scaring of people, which we both know is what you're doing" this asshole rips into her, causing her to calmly state her First Ammendment religious rights. (I see the fine hand of my own child in this. She was raised on the First Ammendment, and I doubt seriously this other poor kid was.) Well, any time a teenager has to tell the principal about the Constitution, bad things happened. Once again, being right gets you zip. Nothing. Nada.

There's a list of "acceptable" religions that have rights. If you're not on the list, you're in trouble.

This is off topic, yes, but I do enjoy the debates/discussions Opranauts have on religion.

I may not agree with what the atheists are saying, but I'll fight to the death for their right to say it.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Yeah , I used to be one of the most vocal on subjects like that. LOL

Now I have already achieved a form of heaven......

The ability to think "I don't give a fuck"...and say "Well good luck to them"

And mean both.

I didn't say you couldn't reach heaven.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Once you have kids ,TE, you will believe there is an afterlife.Deperately and passionately.

I don't doubt that having kids is a wonderful thing and heard kids alter your view on life. If I ever get remarried and have kids you never know, maybe I'll find out.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Trev

I didn't say it was bugging him. I said it must be shit.

Isn't that saying the same thing? Being "shit" is a bad thing and you say it MUST be shit so one can only assume you mean that it sucks not believeing in an afterlife which would mean it would bother a person.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Peaches

I've always found it "interesting" see people tell others what they should and shouldn't believe in. It's like telling someone their tastes in women is wrong, their favorite color is wrong, they don't like the right kind of house, they don't love the right people, etc.

You are what you are

I have not said what anyone should or should not believe in. You have the "right" to believe whatever you want to.

That doesn't mean it's ok

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Yeah , I used to be one of the most vocal on subjects like that. LOL

Now I have already achieved a form of heaven......

The ability to think "I don't give a fuck"...and say "Well good luck to them"

And mean both.

You're a parent, Nick, so you know what I call "that sound." When you're somewhere else in the house and you hear your children laughing and playing together happily. In that moment, you know what it must be like to be God. (Using "God" as a catch-all "Diety" term here.) You don't want your kids sitting at your feet all the time staring up at you adoringly. You'd trip over them constantly. You don't want them nattering at you to solve all their problems, you want them to learn to use their own problem solving skills. You sure as hell don't want them to be afraid of you. You want them to get along with *each other.*

When my eldest and my youngest met for the first time, one was 29, one was 19. (Long, sad, scary story; not relevent to the current topic.) They met at the airport. The eyed each other then stretched out their hands to the lengths of their arms to shake hands. In the car on the way home, I tapped my husband and whispered "can you hear that?" He nodded. His eyes were glistening, too. "That sound" was coming from the back seat. They didn't bond so much as fuse. I felt like God. I brought them both into the world then thanks to - hell, a miracle - I got to hand them over to each other.

I've logged a lot of time in hell. Now I have "a form of heaven."

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Trev

Confess and have your sins forgiven

Ahhhhh.. I love talking about this topic!!


Let's take Timon who basically says he is SOOOO not going to heaven!! Or make it easier and someone who is in prison for murder and truly repents and confesses their sins.

Then lets take someone who is a good and pure person who lives their lives in accordance to every one of the commandments EXCEPT that they refuse to believe in God.


According to the bible the second person doesn't have a chance of getting into heaven even though they have lived a virtuous life and contributed to society. And it all boils down to that one little thing... not believing in God.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

Isn't that saying the same thing? Being "shit" is a bad thing and you say it MUST be shit so one can only assume you mean that it sucks not believeing in an afterlife which would mean it would bother a person.

I'll expand on my post:

It must be frightening being old and the only thing you've got is your wife, your dope and the idea that one day it's all over.

I'll take having my wife, my son and the hope that when I pass I'll be re-united with all my family and friends, while I watch over my loved ones still here.

Hmmm.... I guess you're right... I do think it must be shit/suck being like you, Sar and DrGuile....

[Newton]

Dear TE

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

I don't doubt that having kids is a wonderful thing and heard kids alter your view on life. If I ever get remarried and have kids you never know, maybe I'll find out.

TE...you will be astounded at how much having kids alters your views on life. It does that to everyone. You go from thinking about life from your own perspective to having every action, every decision measured against "how will this effect my children?" It's wonderful, frightening as hell and exhausting.

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

Isn't that saying the same thing? Being "shit" is a bad thing and you say it MUST be shit so one can only assume you mean that it sucks not believeing in an afterlife which would mean it would bother a person.

When a person who *does* believe in an afterlife attempts to get his/her head around *not* believing in one, they do feel it sucks. They're projecting their own feelings, as it isn't possible for them to grasp what the other person feels. It's one of the ultimate "apples and oranges" situations. Doesn't make one right and the other wrong, it just makes it difficult for the two to understand what the other one feels.

Originally Posted by sarettah

I have not said what anyone should or should not believe in. You have the "right" to believe whatever you want to.

That doesn't mean it's ok

Quit that, scrumptious!

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

Ahhhhh.. I love talking about this topic!!


Let's take Timon who basically says he is SOOOO not going to heaven!! Or make it easier and someone who is in prison for murder and truly repents and confesses their sins.

Then lets take someone who is a good and pure person who lives their lives in accordance to every one of the commandments EXCEPT that they refuse to believe in God.


According to the bible the second person doesn't have a chance of getting into heaven even though they have lived a virtuous life and contributed to society. And it all boils down to that one little thing... not believing in God.

50 points to whomever can come up with the text to the poem that starts out "Abu Ben Adam, may his tribe increase."

I encountered it in high school. It covers this very topic and wonderfully. It helped form one of the bricks in my own personal theological foundation.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Believeing in something, no matter how much solace it provides, does not make it true.

And I do not necessarilly prescribe to the notion that it is ok to believe what you want to believe.

See, now here is where you and I disagree. I think it is perfectly ok to believe in what you want to believe. I may not believe but I would never force that belief on others. I will happily dicuss/debate the issue if it is brought up by somebody but I won't actively go out and try and change their minds about the issue unless it's a topic they wish to actively debate/discuss. Even then it is more about stating my opinion rather than trying to change their mind. It's none of my damn business. Who am I to try and take away someones belief that they hold dear and helps them through the course of their life? Especially when the issue is one that basically can't be settled until one dies.

My wife and I used to discuss this issue constaantly as she believes in God stronger than anybody I have ever known. We both enjoyed, and actually still talk about the issue, talking about it quite a bit but I never actively tried to change her mind on the issue because it isn't my place to do so. I respect her greatly for her belief because I know of no one who tries to live up to that belief every day of their life more than she does.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

It's interesting to watch people debate topics that can't be proven either way.

The fervor of a "born again atheist" is as...interesting...as a "born again Christian."

I used "interesting" in lieu of "oh, for fuck's sake, don't you have anything to DO today?"

This topic is one of the most exhilirtating topics to talk about at ANY time IMHO. Maybe it's the Philosophy major in me but I can talk about theological and philosophical issues all day and every day!!

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Peaches

I've always found it "interesting" see people tell others what they should and shouldn't believe in. It's like telling someone their tastes in women is wrong, their favorite color is wrong, they don't like the right kind of house, they don't love the right people, etc.

You are what you are

I agree wholeheartedly with that statement Peaches. I'l debate the issue with anyone who wants to talk about it but I never do it with the intention of actively trying to change their belief but rather why i believe the way I do. What works for one does not necessarily work for another.

[Newton]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

This topic is one of the most exhilirtating topics to talk about at ANY time IMHO. Maybe it's the Philosophy major in me but I can talk about theological and philosophical issues all day and every day!!

What are your fundamental beliefs chap? Why are we here?

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Trev

I'll expand on my post:

It must be frightening being old and the only thing you've got is your wife, your dope and the idea that one day it's all over.

I'll take having my wife, my son and the hope that when I pass I'll be re-united with all my family and friends, while I watch over my loved ones still here.

Hmmm.... I guess you're right... I do think it must be shit/suck being like you, Sar and DrGuile....

See, believing there is nothing after this life doesn't bother me one bit. Maybe it is hard for you to understand but it's true. I find it bizarre that someone could think it frightens/bothers me that I won't have an afterlife.