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We have also heard the arguments about paysite programs having shaving systems, cookiecutter sites etc. since 1998... lets just say this business runs in circles, however once in a while we have a chance to make it better, because of new technology, ideas or situations. This is one of those times - the hosted galleries, paid spots etc. will and have changed business, now we just need to keep making it better :-)
Hosted galleries are new in most paysite programs - many programs having cookiecutter sites will mostly like also have cookiecutter galleries... but just as the TGP business is evolving then the paysite business is also evolving with more focus on making $$$ by providing quality - sure cookiecutter sites will still be here, however just as TGP who do not add hosted galleries, or sell their gallery spots, then they will miss opportunity.
When I talk about TGPs, then I´m not thinking about anyone in particular... like I said in a previous post, then there are different demographics at the TGPs, and I also see more and more tgp owners becomming business people or working with business people in making the TGP concept better. The evolution has begun.
I think its important that we understand that this is not a TGP2 movement, where you have to follow certain rules. This is business, and like you said, then money talks - why else would all major TGPs sell their gallery spots? And this is just the beginning, soon they will be 100% hosted galleries and gallery spots, and after that, when they want more money, then they will start optimizing their sites/concepts working with the advertisers, etc. etc.
Oprano is a no bullshit zone, with no bullshit people, and no bullshit business... you do not need to prove anything else
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
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Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 5 2004, 09:21 PM so are there any counters out there that just count views and clicks? nothing more, no ads, no dialers, no toolbars, no spyware, no sport scores updates. JUST A FUCKING COUNTER?????
no need to pay me .05 cents a click.
Geez....doesn't anyone know how to fucking load mkstats or analog or any similar server side stats program anymore?
How the fuck do you people know what your traffic REALLY looks like if you aren't counting it yourself?
Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 5 2004, 11:55 PM Gonzo amd others told me that this would be an interesting board for me to post at but i have to say with all respect, the arguements against TGPs are pretty much the same ones that were voiced in 1998. What has changed is that the "bad" galleries you mention above, are now provided by the sponsors/paysites.
Why do paysites provide hardcore galleries to affiliates that have been in the business for 10 minutes? Why do they bust their ass and have designers building the "lowly" and "hated TGP gallery?
You guys are smart enough to know that the consumer drives the business, not you. The customer determines who will succeed or fail, not you. You want to "shape" the business to your mold, for your benefit and you want everyone else to conform to what is best for the paysite owner....
I really appreciate the earlier post analyzing my business plan. i really do.
i went through something like this a couple of years ago when the TGP2 movement told me i would be out of business in a couple of months...well damn, guess what...
anyway, im not feeling very good about the negativity towards my way of making money...not really up for a long drawn out battle either, as i have 4000 galleries to review tonite.....trust me, i have nothing to prove to anyone on this board...
Shemp, I do not think there were any attacks on you. People just giving their opinions, just like you have given yours.
I certainly do not think anyone disrespects the succes you have built, and that you did not make the rules of the game, you excelled!
The fact is TGPs are here, there are not going away, so those who do not like them, better learn how to operate with them.
I have personally been working on my own TGPs for months now, and are about to launch 2 others.... I wish I would have jumped on the bandwagon back in 98!
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Originally posted by Vick@Jul 5 2004, 10:23 PM
Would we all make more money if TGP's didn't exist (as well as the glut of free porn)?
No need for long drawn out explanations or justifications
Just a simple yes or no?
no.
it's all numbers. this industry will always take quantity over quality and figure out how to make money off of it. simple math, which would you rather have?
100,000 visitors that'll convert at 1:5000
or
2,000 visitors that'll convert at 1:400
No brainer right?
And we're in a market right now where the price of both bandwidth and content has been steadily falling like a rock. The smart marketer learns how to use that to his/her advantage.
Vick -- all due respect, but you're coming across as pining away for days gone by with absolutely no knowledge of the TGP game.
TGPs are not responsible for global warming, the war in iraq, or the fact that britney spears is marrying some wigger dancer.
TGPs are not responsible for global warming, the war in iraq, or the fact that britney spears is marrying some wigger dancer.
I think this is a Pearl!
Anyone knows it's not TGPs fault, it's Bush's!!
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Originally posted by Peaches@Jul 6 2004, 12:21 PM It's probably the same silence you'd hear if you asked "How many TGP owners have read this question".
Yeah, that could be it... where do TGP owners hang out?
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Well my gift for the obvious allows me to state is seems we are at an impasse with our opinions - Very unlikely to change anyone else's
(and it is about opinions, not people - hopefully none of us have truly taken offense)
In parting please allow me to make this statement
If you like the TGP model so much -
what about opening a McDonald's in your neighborhood and giving free cheeseburgers to everyone who drives through, you might mention (in a soft voice) a Big Mac Meal can be bought
Then allow the very same people to drive through as many times as they like and everytime get a free cheeseburger and tell all their friends about the free cheeseburgers they get just for driving through (and a little ad for a Big Mac)
I have another idea in mind but will save it for another time
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Originally posted by Vick@Jul 6 2004, 04:54 PM what about opening a McDonald's in your neighborhood and giving free cheeseburgers to everyone who drives through, you might mention (in a soft voice) a Big Mac Meal can be bought
Then allow the very same people to drive through as many times as they like and everytime get a free cheeseburger and tell all their friends about the free cheeseburgers they get just for driving through (and a little ad for a Big Mac)
I have another idea in mind but will save it for another time
Why do you think McD's has a 99cent menu? It's so they get people to the store and hope they buy the higher priced items. Grocery stores advertise "loss leaders" in the paper almost every week. Again - "give away" something in the hopes the customer will buy more of the higher priced items that you have. Have you ever been to Costco on a Saturday? I could eat a full meal plus drink and dessert with the samples. Main stream has been doing this for years
Originally posted by Vick@Jul 6 2004, 12:54 PM
If you like the TGP model so much -
what about opening a McDonald's in your neighborhood and giving free cheeseburgers to everyone who drives through, you might mention (in a soft voice) a Big Mac Meal can be bought
Then allow the very same people to drive through as many times as they like and everytime get a free cheeseburger and tell all their friends about the free cheeseburgers they get just for driving through (and a little ad for a Big Mac)
I have another idea in mind but will save it for another time
It's not that anyone likes it so much... its that people accept it as a fact of the adult business. I don't think anyone agrees with your assumptions that "No more TGP's" will make anyones business more profitable.. because you forget that all traffic has to come from somewhere and 1,000,000 million retards will shift their focus in 5 minutes to compete for that traffic creating the same issues and problems you percieve to exist with TGP's.
What you suggest with your McDonalds analogy ignores the simple fact that people make money from TGP traffic and TGP owners make money. No one is "giving everything away for free" - people are obviously paying and it continues to work, or the business model would either cease to exist or it would change dramatically. Just like a restaraunt does not give all it's food away for free, because it would fail.
Peaches I think you're missing my point or we're looking at it differently
McD- .99 menu- money is paid (even if at a lost) and a limited amount is given
TGP - FREE - no money is paid and an almost unlimited amount is given
Like I said
Different strokes for different folks
Is the music industry in a slump? Could it be for 2 reasons - lack of exciting new product and almost unlimited free downloads of any music you could want
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this thread just keeps getting better Shemp, I hope you stay around these parts, your adding good stuff to a already tasty gumbo.
I had a link list in 97 that I opened just to see how it worked, well I found out it was a lot of work, it did well till I got busy with other stuff(growing a baby hosting company) wish i would have stayed in but ohwell I did meet tommy(one of my best friends in this biz)Greenie and others whom have always been there to help me in anyway I needed.(THANK YOU ALL
Now I just started a TGP this summer to help push some traffic to a top secret(dont worry it'll get outproggy and some other "family" proggys. Do I wish I would have did one years ago, fuck yeah, but it's never to late to learn a new dance
again, thanks for a good thread, everyone here has strong opinons about things that are important to them and without that the gumbo would suck.
imho
edit to add, if anyone here wants to trade some traffic with my new baby let me know www.picsnmovies.com
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Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 02:05 PM sites llike the HUN want all the surfers to come in, look around, click some links and come back again real soon...same with me, thats how we make our money.
i want a surfer to be able to come in and know that he wont be impeded or violated by unwanted downloads, dialers and console hells. i want him to be a happy guy, i want him to book mark me, i want him to have confidence in my site.
But most important, i want him in my stats, so i can sell some advertising
Shemp, Gonzo has some celeb galleries and a template I have designed for him to be used only on tgp's we like ...
I can't provide 100's of pics on a regular basis, but I can give you a good gallery now and then that surfers will return for ... and about a third of what I gave gonzo is exclusive studio stuff our photogs have shots of UK page 3 girls and glamour models.
Let me or Gonzo know if you have any ideas on how we can work together ;-)
Oprano in general has a severe lack of TGP-knowledge. So ya bring in a top tier TGP player, and all around great guy, like Shemp to add a bit of TGP to the gumbo.
Do you open your mind, listen to the man, and try to understand why there's a TGP on every corner and almost every sponsor is churning out hosted galleries and free content to feed 'em?
No. You do nothing but ridicule TGP's and try to tell Shemp what's wrong with his business plan while many of you are struggling to find that next "thing" to grab onto to make a paycheck or cling to the hope that the industry will have a shake out and you're one of the ones left clinging to the tree.
If there was ever a doubt that Oprano was a niche or a clique, this thread pretty much just proved it. And hey, that's just fine, dont get me wrong. But I'm sad to see a good guy like Shemp run off. He really could've brought some new perspectives on the business. Something about old dogs and new tricks comes to mind I s'pose.
Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Jul 6 2004, 11:39 PM Amazing, but not surprising....
Oprano in general has a severe lack of TGP-knowledge. So ya bring in a top tier TGP player, and all around great guy, like Shemp to add a bit of TGP to the gumbo.
Do you open your mind, listen to the man, and try to understand why there's a TGP on every corner and almost every sponsor is churning out hosted galleries and free content to feed 'em?
No. You do nothing but ridicule TGP's and try to tell Shemp what's wrong with his business plan while many of you are struggling to find that next "thing" to grab onto to make a paycheck or cling to the hope that the industry will have a shake out and you're one of the ones left clinging to the tree.
If there was ever a doubt that Oprano was a niche or a clique, this thread pretty much just proved it. And hey, that's just fine, dont get me wrong. But I'm sad to see a good guy like Shemp run off. He really could've brought some new perspectives on the business. Something about old dogs and new tricks comes to mind I s'pose.
HP, other the Vick I did not read any posts that were negative about TGPs, or those who run them.
I was enjoying thread, and trying to learn. I have been in TGP for a short time and have a lot of catching up to do.
I think Oprano has all types, but I do agree that in general we are ignorant about TGPs and such..... I was amazed at how complex and sophisticated ( and crooked) it can be.
I think others here did the same.
It is sad that Shemp felt insulted, but Oprano is the no spin zone, and we recomend people leave their egos at the door.
If Shemp is merely looking to have his ass kissed, and smoke blown up his skirt then Oprano is not the place for him. There are many diverse opinions about everything here, and we don't have many asskissers.
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another thing not taken into account here is the law of diminishing returns
In this example it will only apply to the paysite advertiser and TGP relationship (who knows one day TGP'S may be able to have advertising for GM, Pepsi or what have you and tout their branding)
Somewhere in this thread I believe I read one of the goals of a TGP site was to get as many eyes as possible (hence the banning of galleries with certain counters and such) and that enabled the selling of advertising
What happens if due to the glut of free porn available from TGP sites no one buys porn anymore?
They can get it all for free, why buy it - been headed down that slope for a while
(there are other reasons beyond the glut of free pron)
What happens if advertisers stop buying due to poor ROI?
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Oh, I know, thin skin doesn't last long here, never has....likely never will.
And yeah, maybe it's just a very vocal handful, but if you go read thru the thread from the perspective of someone who is new and doesn't know the personalities here....it does come across as beligerent and close minded.
And my reasons for being a bit ticked are perhaps selfish because I consider many of the folx here at Oprano to be like-minded with myself overall and there are people here I know I can trust to do business with.
I'd like to see a few more of them in the TGP game, so there's more Opranaughts to trade traffic with, etc. I'm a little tired of killing 90% of the galleries submitted for toolbars and other bullshit, and killing 90% of the trades for either the same reason or for hitbotting. I've spent way too much time the past few weeks writing sql just to clean out the dirtbags...
Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Jul 7 2004, 12:08 AM Oh, I know, thin skin doesn't last long here, never has....likely never will.
And yeah, maybe it's just a very vocal handful, but if you go read thru the thread from the perspective of someone who is new and doesn't know the personalities here....it does come across as beligerent and close minded.
And my reasons for being a bit ticked are perhaps selfish because I consider many of the folx here at Oprano to be like-minded with myself overall and there are people here I know I can trust to do business with.
I'd like to see a few more of them in the TGP game, so there's more Opranaughts to trade traffic with, etc. I'm a little tired of killing 90% of the galleries submitted for toolbars and other bullshit, and killing 90% of the trades for either the same reason or for hitbotting. I've spent way too much time the past few weeks writing sql just to clean out the dirtbags...
Hell Puppy I am with you.
Gonzo worked hard to get Shemp here. I was happy when he came over, but you cannot make people fee a certain way based on individuals posts.
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Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
HP - I'm the prime opponent of TGP's - there is no way anyone can ever convince me a TGP is a good business model
(but we're stuck with them just the same)
If something I've posted ran Shemp off (and I also posted it was nothing personal - just business and in his welcome post here said while I have not yet had the pleasure of meeting him I have heard good things about him)
I apologize, but ...... I speak my mind
and maybe if someone chooses not to post anymore because of this discussion they may be a little on the thin skinned side
It's an exchange of ideas - right wrong different indifferent or whatever
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Originally posted by Vick@Jul 7 2004, 12:04 AM another thing not taken into account here is the law of diminishing returns
In this example it will only apply to the paysite advertiser and TGP relationship (who knows one day TGP'S may be able to have advertising for GM, Pepsi or what have you and tout their branding)
Somewhere in this thread I believe I read one of the goals of a TGP site was to get as many eyes as possible (hence the banning of galleries with certain counters and such) and that enabled the selling of advertising
What happens if due to the glut of free porn available from TGP sites no one buys porn anymore?
They can get it all for free, why buy it - been headed down that slope for a while
(there are other reasons beyond the glut of free pron)
What happens if advertisers stop buying due to poor ROI?
Vick,
In a way, I'd say we're already there. If you're just selling the same old still photosets that have been licensed to every major paysite, you aren't going to convert for shit, especially with TGP traffic.
Here's a little TGP 101... If you want to convert, you need to have at least one of the following:
--Videos, large high quality videos
--Top notch exclusive content, which YOU control, so you regulate how much of it is released. If you have a total hottie for a solo girl site, dont give away pussy shots.
Originally posted by Hell Puppy+Jul 7 2004, 12:20 AM-->
QUOTE (Hell Puppy @ Jul 7 2004, 12:20 AM)
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Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 7 2004, 12:23 AM
One reason so much fresh content is being shot now is due to TGPs. To convert and do well custom content is the way to go. How many people were shooting custom content 2-4-6 years ago?
Bandwidth is a big part of that too. 1.5 mbps at the house is pretty much the norm for would-be customers. The guy still too cheap to buy cable/dsl and suffering at 56K sure as hell wont pay to join a porn site. Many areas have 3 mbps or better....
You can surf an awful lot of porn at those speeds. This is also what's driving video.
In 97 when we were all on modems for the most part, if you decide you want to rub one out, it would take 15-20 minutes to sample 5-6 good free sites or link sites just due to load times. Now, you can burn thru hundreds of pages or galleries in the same time looking for just the right content that does it for you....you dont settle just because you're tired of surfing.
The best content wins....but the paysite owners themselves should make sure they only release enough to tease. The TGP owner only has enough time to basically make sure the gallery is clean and isn't going to piss off his surfers. If the pics look good, the vast majority do not care whether you opt to give away nothing more than side of breasts and ass shots or whether you show double penetration. That's up to the submitter and how he wants to market his gallery.
I don't like tgp's as a rule ... but over the last few months i've learned enough to realize that I don't like tgp's because there are too many, not because the business model doesn't work.
I think there should be 1 tgp for every 500 paysites instead of the opposite it seems to be now ....
1-15 photos per paysite as 'sample' pics ...
I was just starting to learn something about your business model Shemp, so I for one am sorry to see you go.
I think 'thin skinned' is more like 'couldn't be fucked wasting the energy to explain something to deaf ears'.
HP said it best, there are enough tgp's doing extremely well that it always pays to listen ... ya just never know what you will learn about your own business when you see it through another webmasters eyes.
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 6 2004, 08:47 PM HP, other the Vick I did not read any posts that were negative about TGPs, or those who run them.
I was enjoying thread, and trying to learn. I have been in TGP for a short time and have a lot of catching up to do.
I agree - I had looked forward hearing some good arguments on why and how... didn´t really read any negativ attack post, I read opinions, questions, knowledge and ideas - nothing anyone has to defend against.
But since most of us are already having or starting TGPs, then I´m sure this topic will still be hot - and I do not think the knowledge on Oprano is TGP newbie, most of us understand it, but since many of us also know paysites etc., then we have a better chance of making a good or even better TGP business model, than most TGPs started by newbíes. Marketing skills take time to master - it doesn´t make you are guru by giving free content... giving free content away, and make a killing in the process, thats something only people who understand the business can do, and I find the possiblity that someone like that is/will be reading Oprano very high.
From a paysite point of view, then I see great opportunities, from a TGP point of view, then I see lots of opportunities - we just need to work on connecting the dots between the paysites and tgps, and then both will prosper
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
We have been trying some different models - from exit chain to inside members areas etc. with different layout on the tgps depending on their purpose ex. inside the member areas, it was designed more as a channel/section of the paysite, so members didn´t see them as free, but something they bought access too - on exit chains we had more traditonal tgp and thumb tgp layouts, also low converting countries were filtered off to other purposed than to make them bookmark. All places had hosted galleries from sponsors with good "turn on" content (nothing ultra hardcore) - coversions were very good. We are still experimenting on both generating traffic, and on optimizing the bookmarks we receive, and feel that we will in time have build a new income source, keep traffic longer and will have something to trade with other paysite partners once they get started
How will you get traffic to your TGPs?
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
It took me 2 days to read this thread.. and I have finally reached the end.. good read. Ahh.. if I had only left my Shaven Ferret script running on auto approve all those years ago..
Did not mean they should do it to get goodwill, but because it makes business sense - just as removing galleries/sites with hidden autodownloads...
TGPs can price themself as hookers - some hookers cost $1 other cost more than $1.000.000 - I´m sure that the one dollar hookers get customers, but that doesn´t mean they will ever be rich, and sooner or later they will be so used and infected with all kinds of things, that customers would want to get paid to fuck them.
TGPs do not need to cater to freeloaders - use focus on those that bring in sales, and stop loosing sleep over some 3rd world surfer who might not show up in the stats, because he can not get off on the TGP, since the only english word he understand is FREE.
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 7 2004, 07:02 PM Another 140 replied 1000, views+ thread from Masterp74. My 3rd career one BTW
Be careful to not pull you arm of it the socket when patting yourself on the back!
:P
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Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
Originally posted by masterp74+Jul 7 2004, 08:07 PM-->
QUOTE (masterp74 @ Jul 7 2004, 08:07 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 7 2004, 04:26 PM
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Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
07-06-2004
opcorn:
Shemp, I hope you stay around these parts, your adding good stuff to a already tasty gumbo.
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