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Is it the parents or other authority figures? The people you hang around? The TV programs you watch? A book you read?
How can 2 intelligent people look at the same circumstance and come to such divergent views on cause and effect? How do they see such different realities?
Blows me away...
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Originally posted by Diamond Jim@Dec 1 2003, 02:56 PM Is it the parents or other authority figures? The people you hang around? The TV programs you watch? A book you read?
How can 2 intelligent people look at the same circumstance and come to such divergent views on cause and effect? How do they see such different realities?
In this situation, it's possible that we have a different understanding of the facts.
I find it very hard to believe anyone in the Adult industry doesn't understand the importance of fighting to defend the Constitution even in cases like this.
Think of the Church ladies sitting on the Jury of one of Larry Flynt's Freedom of Speech cases. She might not be a Hustler reader, but her right to practice a religion freely is the very Amendment that allows Larry Flynt to publish his magazine.
Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
Who needs an education when all you need to do is maintain the status quo? Just follow along like a good ignorant sheep and you will be considered a good conservative.
People are a little bit of everything more than ever. Hard to find as many total conservatives or total liberals like in the old days.
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Originally posted by [Labret]@Dec 1 2003, 03:08 PM Lack of education.
Show me a university that is considered a bastion of conservatism.
Universites themselves have a vested interest in liberal idelogy and benefit from it....the tenure system alone is proof of how liberal ideolgy permeates. Merit? Who needs it?
Clearly, there are intelligent people on both sides of liberalism and conservatism. I find the need or desire to label the opponent as "stupid" or "uneducated" a convenient crutch in a real debate. I found it particularly amusing watching Labret and Vick call each other stupid, when the opposite is obvious. Opposing viewpoints, certainly....uneducated or dumb.....no.
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Originally posted by FATPad@Dec 1 2003, 03:11 PM Are we talking socially or fiscally?
Because I know a lot of people who consider themselves social liberals and financial conservatives.
I'm talking more of how someone arrives at a particular conclusion that ends up manifesting itself into an ideology....
So, not so much how someone becomes a Liberal or a Conservative....but how someone arrives at the conclusions that end up pointing them in that direction...
A subtle point, I suppose. I like to make the distinction because of the question you raise. One can be socially "liberal" yet fiscally "conservative"...
So for EACH question inside the ideology....how do equally intelligent people come to a different conclusion?
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Originally posted by Diamond Jim@Dec 1 2003, 03:29 PM I'm talking more of how someone arrives at a particular conclusion that ends up manifesting itself into an ideology....
So, not so much how someone becomes a Liberal or a Conservative....but how someone arrives at the conclusions that end up pointing them in that direction...
A subtle point, I suppose. I like to make the distinction because of the question you raise. One can be socially "liberal" yet fiscally "conservative"...
So for EACH question inside the ideology....how do equally intelligent people come to a different conclusion?
Bottom line - what benefits me the most
That's just from my perspective
p.s. :P usually denotes sarcasm or HA HA
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Originally posted by Diamond Jim@Dec 1 2003, 03:56 PM Is it the parents or other authority figures? The people you hang around? The TV programs you watch? A book you read?
How can 2 intelligent people look at the same circumstance and come to such divergent views on cause and effect? How do they see such different realities?
Blows me away...
It's a combination of people you're around, books/magazines/newspapers that you've read, TV/Movies that you've watched and most of all, experience. Two intelligent people can read/watch/experience completely different events.
Except for PD , liberals tend to be young. As they age and get more life experience, many become more conservative. I've watched it happen with myself and each of my 4 siblings, including their spouses. I've rarely seen anyone go from being conservative to being a liberal. I'm sure it exists, but it nothing I've personally witnessed.
Originally posted by Diamond Jim@Dec 1 2003, 01:56 PM Is it the parents or other authority figures? The people you hang around? The TV programs you watch? A book you read?
How can 2 intelligent people look at the same circumstance and come to such divergent views on cause and effect? How do they see such different realities?
Blows me away...
I guess for me, it's a matter of wanting other to treat me as an adult capable of making my own decisions and accepting the consequences thereof with forcing others at gunpoint to subsidize my life or absorb the consequences of my actions in my stead.
ahhh..how did I get from
"Educating Rita" to
"Educating Labret"
beats the shit out of me
;-))))
Educated me? you proved my point with that article. Did you even read it or did you just look for keywords?
Quote:
Argument
By and large, academia tends to be liberal. There are conservative professors, to be sure, but they are usually moderate, and in the minority. But what of the far right? For many decades now, the far right has been gradually disappearing from American universities (with a few notable exceptions, like the computer science department). The steadily growing influence of liberalism in academia has alarmed many on the far right, because without a source of ideas and theories, the influence of their political movement will crumble.
Education as a cure for the disease of conservatism.
Originally posted by Diamond Jim@Dec 1 2003, 02:56 PM Is it the parents or other authority figures? The people you hang around? The TV programs you watch? A book you read?
How can 2 intelligent people look at the same circumstance and come to such divergent views on cause and effect? How do they see such different realities?
Blows me away...
All of that and more. Whether it be religion, politics, morals, all of a persons life experiences come together to make who and what they are. It isn't just one thing as, for example, I'm the only one in my family who doesn't believe in God.
Originally posted by [Labret]@Dec 1 2003, 03:44 PM
Quote:
ahhh..how did I get from
"Educating Rita" to
"Educating Labret"
beats the shit out of me
;-))))
Educated me? you proved my point with that article. Did you even read it or did you just look for keywords?
Quote:
Argument
By and large, academia tends to be liberal. There are conservative professors, to be sure, but they are usually moderate, and in the minority. But what of the far right? For many decades now, the far right has been gradually disappearing from American universities (with a few notable exceptions, like the computer science department). The steadily growing influence of liberalism in academia has alarmed many on the far right, because without a source of ideas and theories, the influence of their political movement will crumble.
Education as a cure for the disease of conservatism.
and what did exactly give you an idea I was arguing with you???
I just gave you the ammunition to be more argumentative
;-))
do you really expect to be whacked on the head every time you post on Oprano?
I told you long ago,
therer are a few things I agree with you and you'll never guess which ones
;-))
The default position for an uneducated person is leftist.
So the trailer parks and truck stops of America are stomping grounds for lefties?
Quote:
Why doesn't the government just print the money to cover the debt?" "Why don't we set the minimum wage at $1000/hr so everyone can be rich?" etc.
I have never heard anyone make that argument. Source?
Quote:
Business schools = conservative and libertarian.
Sociology = leftist.
Glad to see you've aligned yourself with the morons.
That is one of the strangest arguments I have ever seen.
Business schools are tech schools. I suspect there is not a good deal of social sciences, art, or lit classes at "business school".
Why would a business school not crank out neocons? They are not being educated, they are not taught critical thinking skills, they are taught to crunch numbers, not debate social theory.
I am arguing with a guy who pays hookers to blow him on camera.
Originally posted by Peaches@Dec 1 2003, 03:34 PM Except for PD , liberals tend to be young. As they age and get more life experience, many become more conservative. I've watched it happen with myself and each of my 4 siblings, including their spouses. I've rarely seen anyone go from being conservative to being a liberal. I'm sure it exists, but it nothing I've personally witnessed.
See, I am the opposite, Peaches. Not in belief structure, but in the practical applications. I have had to modify my philosophy to be realistic, rather than ideal.
Take a subset of Buff's point...
Philosophically, I am opposed to the notion of welfare in ANY form. You can't hold a job, earn a living, whatever.....too fucking bad. Starve. I fail to see why MY money is confiscated to pay for someone else's life. I don't recognize the morals that say I owe something to someone I've never met and will never know. However, the philosophical ideal of that is different than the practical reality of dealing with the entity who won't earn his way. He's here, so what we do with him?
I can agree with some liberal mindsets that our best alternative is to do some of the things they do. What I can't agree with or fathom the conclusion some liberals come to, is the philosophy that we REALLY DO owe people we've never met, don't care about, have no relation to, etc....
Dealing with practical reality and BELIEVING in something are completely different things.
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Originally posted by Diamond Jim@Dec 1 2003, 04:56 PM Philosophically, I am opposed to the notion of welfare in ANY form. You can't hold a job, earn a living, whatever.....too fucking bad. Starve. I fail to see why MY money is confiscated to pay for someone else's life. I don't recognize the morals that say I owe something to someone I've never met and will never know. However, the philosophical ideal of that is different than the practical reality of dealing with the entity who won't earn his way. He's here, so what we do with him?
I can agree with some liberal mindsets that our best alternative is to do some of the things they do. What I can't agree with or fathom the conclusion some liberals come to, is the philosophy that we REALLY DO owe people we've never met, don't care about, have no relation to, etc....
Dealing with practical reality and BELIEVING in something are completely different things.
Perhaps there's a shared blur in SOME instances between the "conservative" way of thinking and the "liberal" way of thinking.
as i have said a few times here, i think it is the difference in being left or right brain dominant. some people use both hemispheres equally.
how can two people look at the same issue and see totally different things?
how can two people look at this picture, see totally different things? because the evidence is there to show that both people can see two totally different things and be 100% correct
Originally posted by FATPad@Dec 1 2003, 05:21 PM The only one in there I agree with is the healthcare.
And I know it makes me a commy. But I do think in the richest country in the world, people should be able to get reasonable quality healthcare at any time.
But why should someone else pay for it? Why should there be laws that say I have to pay for my employee's health insurance? And if I have to, then where are the laws that say my employees have to take care of their own health by not over eating, smoking, etc.?
Top notch healthcare is available to every citizen AND illegal alien in the US. There are laws which prevent ANYONE standing on US soil to be denied life saving medical treatment.
However, go to a public hospital some night and see the people sitting in the ER waiting room with minor problems. It will cost a minimum of $400 to the taxpayers when the patient could have gone to a clinic for $15. But the ER is free, so they go there. I have no pity for those people, sorry.
Originally posted by Peaches@Dec 1 2003, 04:17 PM Just some examples:
Everyone should be paid a fair living wage. If a man is married has 5 kids and is doing the exact same job as a single man, then the "family" man should make a lot more $$$ than the single man. After all, he needs it more.
All businesses should provide full healthcare insurance, cost free, to their employees. If you don't work, then of course the government should provide it.
No one in a business should make X% more than the lowest wage earner.
Workers with families should have more time off than those who are single.
And again - just a few examples and I talk to 10-20 of these people A WEEK.
Exactly my point, Peaches...
These people BELIEVE in these thoughts....it is their philosophy of life....and it's not just some trailer-trash, welfare-skimming, peons....this thinking was born in academia, not the pub...
Read the "history" of the Twentieth Century Motor Company. It follows these "ideas" to their logical and inevitable conclusion.
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IMHO, liberals tend to be better educated and have a better sense of all the wonderful possibilities "the government" could provide to the needy to make life better for everyone. A separate class of "liberals" are the uneducated poor who have a well-developed sense of entitlement to government assistance.
Conservatives tend to be more pragmatic. Their first question is usually, "How are we going to pay for it?". Conservatives generally believe a person's lot in life is determined by their own actions, and are unwilling to pay to subsidize personal choices that do not reflect their own work-ethic.
I agree with you Peaches that people tend to become more "pragmatic" as they get older.
Originally posted by LadyLaw@Dec 1 2003, 01:52 PM Conservatives tend to be more pragmatic. Their first question is usually, "How are we going to pay for it?".
This doesn't sound like George Bush to me. How much is he spending on this war again?
I think you have the wrong labels here. You should be saying right wing or left wing or moderate, conservative/liberal are social perspectives only.
I'm right wing from having gone through some REALLY REALLY tough times and pulling myself out of it by my own hard work, and at the same time watching lazy suckers just lay around and suck off the system while complaining that they don't get enough help.
12-01-2003
Nick@ilynx: "MasterP, YOU'RE FIRED!"
ugh he he he
Why should there be laws that say I have to pay for my employee's health insurance? And if I have to, then where are the laws that say my employees have to take care of their own health by not over eating, smoking, etc.?
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